Crimeans Who Ushered in the Russians Now Have to Live With Their Choice

[pepipop]

Britain is a very liberal country to move to, if it is the Russian lifestyle that is what is you deepest desire.

Understandably though, there is not as much economic opportunity in Russia for Russophiles as there exists in Western Europe, so from what I gather, England has a burgeoning Polish community now.

I doubt if it’s anything to do with being ‘liberal’ that others go to English speaking countries to work but due to language barriers.

Unfortunately, not too many Westerners are bi-lingual, aside from countries like thee Netherlands, the Swiss and Belgians.

Hence, I would guess English is taught as a second language at most non-English speaking countries’ schools, as opposed to Russian/German/French, etc… as English is now the official lingua franca and the recognised language for doing business transactions worldwide.

• It is an official language of almost 60 sovereign states and the most commonly spoken language in sovereign states including the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and a number of Caribbean nations.[6] It is the third-most-common native language in the world, after Mandarin and Spanish.[7] It is widely learned as a second language and is an official language of the European Union and of the United Nations, as well as of many world organisations.*

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I take the view that Putin’s motivations can be easily discerned from a relatively quick, impartial analysis of his actions, comments and background. I don’t think he is a genuinely religious man at all. Decadence in the West is our Achilles heel. Maybe cancer would be a better analogy - with Putin (and/or ISIS) as our Dr. Kevorkian.

I personally am not quite there yet; I have no problem resisting all of the above. I also believe that if Putin pushes much harder, the West will rather suddenly, mysteriously recover its health and vigor…

Seriously, I think followers of Putin who are doing it for reasons of conscience/moral/religious commitment will be incredibly disappointed, horrified even, once they figure him out. He is not a savior.

I don’t think anyone’s saying he’s a savior.
There are many of us who are tired of 15 years of war with no end in sight. We’re tired of seeing the US poke the Russians and think we can intimidate them like we have other countries. The US is asking for humiliation and tragedy. And if we continue, that is what is going to happen.
Human life is precious before God, war is not something to play with, it’s not a game. The Catholic Church understands that, certainly our Pope does.

 

[pepipop]

I take the view that Putin’s motivations can be easily discerned from a relatively quick, impartial analysis of his actions, comments and background. I don’t think he is a genuinely religious man at all. Decadence in the West is our Achilles heel. Maybe cancer would be a better analogy - with Putin (and/or ISIS) as our Dr. Kevorkian.

I personally am not quite there yet; I have no problem resisting all of the above. I also believe that if Putin pushes much harder, the West will rather suddenly, mysteriously recover its health and vigor…

Seriously, I think followers of Putin who are doing it for reasons of conscience/moral/religious commitment will be incredibly disappointed, horrified even, once they figure him out. He is not a savior.

Well fortunately that counts me out.

I dislike injustice. The baiting of Russia by the West through their interference in Ukraine, is why I side with Russia in this instance. Particularly so, after the West’s blatant stance of taking sides whilst actually attending the Maidan protests in Ukraine, i.e. with the anti-Russian side, ‘who were right’ and then being recorded and finally admitting to helping choose the coup d’etat government.

In addition to the threat of NATO getting closer to Russian borders.

What happened afterwards is the result of the coup d’etat in Ukraine and Western interlopers having the audacity to help choose an anti-Russian coup government!

You couldn’t make it up!

 

[Tomdstone]

Seemingly spooked by the unrest, Ukrainian lawmaker and law enforcement advisor Anton Gerashchenko issued a severe warning to the rioters:

If anyone in Konstantinovka takes up arms to challenge law and order and the Ukrainian authorities, using this accident to incite popular unrest, then one warning shot will first be fired, and then the authorities will shoot to kill. If there is no time for a warning shot then authorities will shoot to kill immediately…

I am sorry to hear that this is the type of “democracy” that is being established by Kiev in Ukraine where they “shoot to kill immediately” . I thought that in a democracy people were supposed to have some sort of rights?

 

[Tomdstone]

Here is a report of how the UA has tortured Eastern Ukrainian residents, in Donbass.

**War crimes of the armed forces and security forces of Ukraine: torture of the Donbass region residents.
**
democracyfund.ru/userfiles/War%20crimes%20of%20the%20armed%20forces%20and%20security%20forces%20of%20Ukraine.pdf

*The information collected by the Foundation for Democracy Studies gives grounds to believe that the Ukrainian armed forces, the National Guard and other military units of the Ministry of the Interior of Ukraine, as well as the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) systematically and on purpose violate Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights that reads, ‘No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.’

The extent to which torture is being used and the fact that this is done systematically prove that torture is an intentional strategy of the said institutions, authorized by their leadership. Commenting on their practice of committing torture, Liliy Rodionova, deputy head of the Committee for Refugees and Prisoners of War (Donetsk), who is personally engaged in the exchange of prisoners, says the following about the prisoners that the Ukrainian side releases, ‘Almost everyone released comes back with their ribs and legs
broken and teeth ripped out. There is not a single person with no marks of beating. They use pliers to rip out teeth and beat

Lately, they have been seizing ordinary people, not members of the self-defence forces.
They use gunpowder and electroshock to torture people, they brand them. Some were thrown into a pit with dead bodies, crushed with a shovel bucket, had a smouldering iron stuck in their mouth.*

So now Ukraine is torturing people who don’t agree with Poroshenko?

 

[FollowChrist34]

Well fortunately that counts me out.

I dislike injustice. The baiting of Russia by the West through their interference in Ukraine, is why I side with Russia in this instance. Particularly so, after the West’s blatant stance of taking sides whilst actually attending the Maidan protests in Ukraine, i.e. with the anti-Russian side, ‘who were right’ and then being recorded and finally admitting to helping choose the coup d’etat government.

In addition to the threat of NATO getting closer to Russian borders.

What happened afterwards is the result of the coup d’etat in Ukraine and Western interlopers having the audacity to help choose an anti-Russian coup government!

You couldn’t make it up!

And I think we are entering…“a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call … The Twilight Zone,” to others “Trollville.”



I am not being facetious unfortunately; wish I were.

 

[Tomdstone]

• I live in Krimu, Sevastopol to be exact. On 24 February 2014, 09:00, live interview on Channel 5 in Kiev, owned by Poroshenko, Oleg Tyagnibok clearly stated, heard live, ‘I will bring my 2500 men to Krimea and put every Russian there to the knife’. Tyagnibok is the leader of Svoboda Party and a sitting deputat at the time in Ukraine Rada. Yarush, the leader of Right Sector Party and now a sitting deputat in Ukraine Rada, clearly stated ‘I will bring my 2500 men, to Sevastopol, kill every Russian there and burn that city to the ground.’ *These death threats by the Ukrainians against people in Crimea are horrible and frightful. No wonder the people of Crimea voted to return to Mother Russia.

 

[pepipop]

And I think we are entering…“a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call … The Twilight Zone,” to others “Trollville.”



I am not being facetious unfortunately; wish I were.

You can say what you wish about my opinion of the situation being in the ‘twilight zone’ - however I am not a troll. This is my ‘genuine’ opinion that is completely factually backed up by visual and phone recorded evidence. Photos of US diplomats at the Maidan protests, recorded telephone conversations of US/EU diplomats choosing the coup government that was later admitted to by Obama, several months back, etc.

A troll, in my view, is a poster that labels any (insert word: country/person/race/whatever), liars, paedophiles, evil, bad, untrustworthy etc…or condemning (insert word) of doing something with no evidence of same - that is inflammatory.

That is my opinion based on factual evidence, and the opinion of numerous others worldwide.

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

 

[Tomdstone]

I love Buchanan, don’t get me wrong, but the sad truth is that he is to many of us a bit of a nutter, especially on foreign policy. Steer clear of him here.

More ad hominem arguments. I notice a tendency on this thread to demonize anyone who is not pro-Kiev and anti-Putin. First we have the allegation that the pro-Russia posters here are paid by the Russia government to spread misinformation. Now we have the allegation that Mr. Buchanan is a “nutter”. The only people who are wrong here are the ones who claim that the Crimeans did not want to return to Mother Russia. They certainly did want to return to Russia, and recent polls show that even today about 93% of the Crimean people approve of the return to Russia.

 

[pepipop]

I am sorry to hear that this is the type of “democracy” that is being established by Kiev in Ukraine where they “shoot to kill immediately” . I thought that in a democracy people were supposed to have some sort of rights?

Needless to say, none of this is reported in the MSM.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well fortunately that counts me out.

I dislike injustice. The baiting of Russia by the West through their interference in Ukraine, is why I side with Russia in this instance. Particularly so, after the West’s blatant stance of taking sides whilst actually attending the Maidan protests in Ukraine, i.e. with the anti-Russian side, ‘who were right’ and then being recorded and finally admitting to helping choose the coup d’etat government.

In addition to the threat of NATO getting closer to Russian borders.

What happened afterwards is the result of the coup d’etat in Ukraine and Western interlopers having the audacity to help choose an anti-Russian coup government!

You couldn’t make it up!

Unfortunately, it’s not “made up”. Russia seized part of Moldova and part of Georgia. It then seized the whole of Crimea and now has its armed forces in East Ukraine. Russia will never return East Ukraine despite the expressed wish of the population to remain part of Ukraine. I know it. You know it. The whole world knows it. Russian conquests in Europe have been condemned virtually the world over, and rightly.

There is, of course, not one NATO foot on Russian soil. The aggression is 100% Russia’s.

Russia could not possibly have felt “baited” by the West in Ukraine. Ukraine made moves toward the EU. Instead Yanukovych, whose own party condemned him for it, wanted to push Ukraine into the threadbare, Russia-domaned “Eurasian Union” whose members constantly cheat on their supposed commitments. Yanukovych fled when the people protested and Russia used it as the excuse to conquer. Not much more to know.

No matter what anybody says, Russia has seized parts of three countries and will probably seize more. It will never give any of it back.

 

[pepipop]

Unfortunately, it’s not “made up”. Russia seized part of Moldova and part of Georgia. It then seized the whole of Crimea and now has its armed forces in East Ukraine. Russia will never return East Ukraine despite the expressed wish of the population to remain part of Ukraine. I know it. You know it. The whole world knows it. Russian conquests in Europe have been condemned virtually the world over, and rightly.

There is, of course, not one NATO foot on Russian soil. The aggression is 100% Russia’s.

Russia could not possibly have felt “baited” by the West in Ukraine. Ukraine made moves toward the EU. Instead Yanukovych, whose own party condemned him for it, wanted to push Ukraine into the threadbare, Russia-domaned “Eurasian Union” whose members constantly cheat on their supposed commitments. Yanukovych fled when the people protested and Russia used it as the excuse to conquer. Not much more to know.

No matter what anybody says, Russia has seized parts of three countries and will probably seize more. It will never give any of it back.

So explain what the USA were doing there? The EU I understand completely, and is the right of the Ukrainians to chose their path. But why were the US officials helping assist the coup d’etat government that was later admitted to by Obama - what were they doing there?

As I’ve posted previously, there were no officials from Ireland, Germany, Russia, UK or any world governments in Ukraine especially at such a volatile time.

 

[FollowChrist34]

You can say what you wish about my opinion of the situation being in the ‘twilight zone’ - however I am not a troll. This is my ‘genuine’ opinion that is completely factually backed up by visual and phone recorded evidence. Photos of US diplomats at the Maidan protests, recorded telephone conversations of US/EU diplomats choosing the coup government that later admitted to by Obama, several months back, etc.

A troll, in my view, is a poster that labels any (insert word: country/person/race/whatever), liars, paedophiles, evil, bad, untrustworthy etc…or condemning (insert word) of doing something with no evidence of same - that is inflammatory.

That is my opinion based on factual evidence, and the opinion of numerous others worldwide.

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

I know your opinion on this subject very well, as you know mine. I respect your right to hold it; I have a right to mine. To clarify, I am not implying you are a “troll.” (You didn’t accuse me of doing so.) I am saying that “trolls” make many of the same arguments…that is well-established, independently verifiable as well.

 

[Ridgerunner]

More ad hominem arguments. I notice a tendency on this thread to demonize anyone who is not pro-Kiev and anti-Putin.

If you don’t like this sort of thing, why do you refer to the elected replacements of a corrupt leader who fled to Russia, as a “coup”. Why do you and other keep suggesting that Svoboda or some other uber-nationalist party is running things when all of those parties together got less than 2% of the vote?

The demonization of the elected government of Ukraine, which is fighting a war of aggression within its own borders, is demonization if ever I saw it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So explain what the USA were doing there? The EU I understand completely, and is the right of the Ukrainians to chose their path. But why were the US officials helping assist the coup d’etat government that was later admitted to by Obama - what were they doing there?

As I’ve posted previously, there were no officials from Ireland, Germany, Russia, UK or any world governments in Ukraine especially at such a volatile time.

There are foreign nationals in every country and, other than in the worst dictatorships like North Korea, Iran and Russia, they try to influence events. Nothing strange or unusual in that. I would like to see you demonstrate categorically that there were no foreign nationals in Ukraine when Yanukovych rejected his peoples’ aspirations to join the EU and fled to Russia.

Virtually every nation on earth had embassies or stations there.
mfa.gov.ua/en/about-ukraine/dip-in-ukraine/missions-list

 

[pepipop]

I know your opinion on this subject very well, as you know mine. I respect your right to hold it; I have a right to mine. To clarify, I am not implying you are a “troll.” (You didn’t accuse me of doing so.) I am saying that “trolls” make many of the same arguments…that is well-established, independently verifiable as well.

I am not sure what a Putin ‘troll’ actually does, or arguments they make, as my opinion is factually based. A troll allegedly sows discord by its’ definition, and/or spreads misinformation. As my opinion is backed by evidence, it can not be ‘misinformation’ and hence would not be used by the devious Putin ‘trolls’.

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

 

[pepipop]

There are foreign nationals in every country and, other than in the worst dictatorships like North Korea, Iran and Russia, they try to influence events. Nothing strange or unusual in that. I would like to see you demonstrate categorically that there were no foreign nationals in Ukraine when Yanukovych rejected his peoples’ aspirations to join the EU and fled to Russia.

Virtually every nation on earth had embassies or stations there.
mfa.gov.ua/en/about-ukraine/dip-in-ukraine/missions-list

Of course there are, but how many of them were photographed at the Maidan protests stating the protesters were ‘right’, or later recorded having phone conversations choosing the coup government officials and a year later their president/prime-minister admitted they "Brokered a Deal to Transition Power in Ukraine”

NONE!

 

[Darryl1958]

I doubt if it’s anything to do with being ‘liberal’ that others go to English speaking countries to work but due to language barriers.

I never said it was because Britain is liberal. I imagine it is because there are more economic opportunities in Britain that so many Polish had opted to settle there.
That would be the most obvious reason why.
They go there to work, because of the greater opportunities than is presented to them in the homeland.

Unfortunately, not too many Westerners are bi-lingual, aside from countries like thee Netherlands, the Swiss and Belgians.

Hence, I would guess English is taught as a second language at most non-English speaking countries’ schools, as opposed to Russian/German/French, etc… as English is now the official lingua franca and the recognised language for doing business transactions worldwide.

Yes, it is.

• It is an official language of almost 60 sovereign states and the most commonly spoken language in sovereign states including the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and a number of Caribbean nations.[6] It is the third-most-common native language in the world, after Mandarin and Spanish.[7] It is widely learned as a second language and is an official language of the European Union and of the United Nations, as well as of many world organisations.*

Yes.
I could google all that information, but it is mostly unrelated to what I had been implying.

 

[Darryl1958]

This was in the 1990s. Of course these specific things have changed, but their contemporary equivalents have persisted and expanded into the present day.

In Russia too.

 

[Tomdstone]

Unfortunately, not too many Westerners are bi-lingual, aside from countries like thee Netherlands, the Swiss and Belgians.

Southern California and Texas have many people who speak Spanish and English. And of course, in Quebec most people know English.