Crimeans Who Ushered in the Russians Now Have to Live With Their Choice

[josie_L]

Did you even read the article that you are using to slander America?
This is from the article and I quote.

“An online petition at change.org calling for McLaughlin to be disbarred had more than 17,000 signatures Monday.”

So the same lawyer who introduced the bill has 17,000 people who want him to be disbarred, so much for American homophobia.

Well, Tombstone, you did it again, i.e., you managed to misinterpret another article.

 

[josie_L]

The problem with this is that the reverse is also true,

It takes only one madman to make an evil aristocracy.
It takes only a few madman to make an evil oligarchy.
It takes many madman to make an evil aristocracy.
It takes a large majority to make an evil democracy.

You’re essentially putting all your eggs in one basket in the hopes that an authoritarian ruler will be benevolent, for every Napoleon, Caesar, Augustus, you get a Nero, Pol Pot, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, etc.

:clapping:

 

[BackHand]

Dynastic autocrats (kings) had ruled human society continuously until the unfortunate events of 1775 and 1789.
The last two centuries have been experimenting with alternatives, none of which appear to create lasting stability.
Perhaps monarchic rule is not so terrible, at least where it enjoys historical and cultural precedent.
Maybe we should not be so confident in our perceived ‘improvement’ following the deposition of past ‘backwardness’. After all, the social instability of the XIX and XX centuries has no true equivalent in the past.

You call the events of 1775 unfortunate! As an American I find that highly offensive, this is the equivalent of saying the events of 1721 and 1945 were “unfortunate” if you understand what I mean. The alternatives to authoritarianism have done pretty darn well, America has been around for the last 238 years I suppose we have different definitions of “stability”. I find it laughable that you would say the 19th and 20th centuries have social instability that " has no true equivalent to the past".
Well if you don’t count the fall of the Roman Empire.
The hundred years war.
The Crusades.
England’s two civil wars.
The great Northern war.
The Napoleonic wars.
The Black death.
The fall of Byzantine.
And the rest of Pre-modern European history. Then I suppose you could say we live in a much more unstable era.
Personally I think the ideas of Republicanism and Democracy are pretty swell! You don’t get tortured to death for criticizing the government. You have freedom of speech. Freedom of association. RELIGIOUS freedom, nice things like that. By the way you know that in England it would’ve been illegal to be Catholic right? See autocracy isn’t always chalked up to what you’re making it out to be. Someone should remind Putin that the last two times Russia collapsed was under the rule of an authoritarian empire and a authoritarian communist regime.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty_Martyrs_of_England_and_Wales

 

[Tomdstone]

hrw.org/news/2014/12/15/russia-impunity-anti-lgbt-violence

Moscow) – Russian authorities have failed in their obligation to prevent and prosecute homophobic violence. Growing numbers of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people have been attacked and harassed across Russia in the lead-up and aftermath of the adoption of the federal anti-LGBT “propaganda” law in June 2013. The law effectively legalized discrimination against LGBT people and cast them as second-class citizens.

The 85-page report, “License to Harm: Violence and Harassment against LGBT People and Activists in Russia,” is based on dozens of detailed interviews with LGBT people and activists in 16 cities across Russia who experienced attacks or aggressive harassment because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. LGBT people described being beaten, abducted, humiliated, and called “pedophiles” or “perverts,” in some cases by homophobic vigilante groups and in others by strangers on the subway, on the street, at nightclubs, at cafes, and in one case, at a job interview.

“Violence experienced by LGBT people in Russia is unmistakably motivated by homophobia, but the authorities deliberately ignore that these are hate crimes and fail to protect victims,” said Tanya Cooper, Russia researcher at Human Rights Watch. “Russian authorities should effectively prosecute homophobic violence, and the authorities should stop engaging in and tolerating anti-LGBT discrimination.”

Human Rights Watch documented the stigma, harassment, and violence LGBT people in Russia face in their everyday lives. Most of those interviewed said that these problems intensified since 2013. In some cases, they were attacked by the anti-LGBT vigilante groups that appeared in dozens of Russian cities and towns in late 2012. These groups of radical nationalists lure gay men and teenage boys on the pretext of a fake date, hold them against their will, and humiliate and expose them by videotaping the encounter. Hundreds of such videos depicting abuse have been posted online.
“I felt blood in my mouth, but only later learned that the attackers had broken my jaw in two places,” said one victim of a vigilante group.

In other cases, LGBT people described being physically attacked by strangers during their everyday activities. Victims told Human Rights Watch that assailants followed them and in many cases hit them, while accusing them of being gay, calling them “faggots,” and hurling homophobic slurs at them in public places.

Witness: Beaten for Being Gay in Russia - Andrey’s Story

LGBT activists also face physical violence and harassment at public events supporting LGBT equality. The vast majority of LGBT activists interviewed had been attacked at least once during public pro-LGBT events since 2012, describing attacks in several cities. They said that although anti-LGBT counter-protesters routinely harass and attack them, the police consistently fail to take adequate measures to prevent the attacks and protect them from violence.

Out of 78 victims of homophobic and transphobic violence and harassment interviewed for the report, 22 did not report attacks against them to the police because they feared direct harassment from police and did not believe the police would take the attacks seriously. Many victims felt reporting the attacks to the police was a waste of time. Indeed, when victims did lodge complaints with the police, few investigations followed.

“Russian law enforcement agencies have the tools to prosecute homophobic violence, but they lack the will to do so,” Cooper said. “The failure to stop and punish homophobic violence and aggression puts LGBT people and their supporters at further risk of attack.”

.

Do you have any videos of Russian police beating LGBT people or is it all just exaggerated hearsay? Here is a recent video of American police officers beating an unarmed African American citizen with several brutal punches to the head. He is lucky to be alive.
huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/25/violent-arrest-floyd-dent_n_6941714.html

 

[Ridgerunner]

Do you have any videos of Russian police beating LGBT people or is it all just exaggerated hearsay? Here is a recent video of American police officers beating an unarmed African American citizen with several brutal punches to the head. He is lucky to be alive.
huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/25/violent-arrest-floyd-dent_n_6941714.html

How utterly invalid this is!

First you require him to produce film, along with proof that the person being beaten is homosexual, and also prove that the beater’s subjective motivation is the homosexuality of the person being beaten, and all in a society so secretive and oppressive that one takes one’s physical well-being at risk in filming such a thing.

Second, the old “tu toque”, in other words “It’s okay because somebody else did something like it.” If presented with “John stole an apple”, the response is not proof that John didn’t steal the apple, but “It’s okay because Mary stole an orange”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

After my last post, I remember reading how, in the Russian Gulags during the Cold War, the Russian authorities would show movies from time to time to the inmates. One of them was a film showing white cops mistreating black protesters in Alabama. It also showed scenes in rundown black neighborhoods in the U.S., all for the purpose of showing how bad America was.

But the “tu toque” didn’t work. The prisoners, who lived in incomparably worse conditions, remarked among themselves about the nice clothes on the black victims and, in the neighborhoods, the cars the residents obviously had and how well-fed they looked.

Putin and those who believe in him, one expects, will do the same, and likely with the same result. At a point, people recognize that oppressive despotism has its costs.

 

[pepipop]

After my last post, I remember reading how, in the Russian Gulags during the Cold War, the Russian authorities would show movies from time to time to the inmates. One of them was a film showing white cops mistreating black protesters in Alabama. It also showed scenes in rundown black neighborhoods in the U.S., all for the purpose of showing how bad America was.

But the “tu toque” didn’t work. The prisoners, who lived in incomparably worse conditions, remarked among themselves about the nice clothes on the black victims and, in the neighborhoods, the cars the residents obviously had and how well-fed they looked.

Putin and those who believe in him, one expects, will do the same, and likely with the same result. At a point, people recognize that oppressive despotism has its costs.

hmmm … pot, kettle, black comes to mind. Not too unlike the way the MSM has demonised Russia for years - but it’s not working anymore as evidenced by the US and the EU stating that they now have to up their anti against the Russian media.

Through the internet, all facts can be obtained via youtube, facebook, twitter, forums, government websites, polls, etc… hence they are wasting their time.

rt.com/news/240061-eu-russia-disinformation-accusations/

EU readies action plan to counter Russian media ‘disinformation’

*European leaders are determined to tackle what they see as Russian “disinformation campaigns” and are giving the EU foreign policy chief three months to come up with ideas in how to do this, a leaked document reveals.

“The West has always claimed that it is not into propaganda, believes in free expression and in the free exchange of opinions. And yet here we are – the West setting up what to all intents and purposes sounds like a propaganda channel to broadcast the Western view into Russia. So they are saying one thing and doing the opposite,” he said.

As the Western media “speaks with one voice and says things which many people in the West find difficult to accept,” people are looking for alternative news channels, which “they consider reliable and objective, and the one they have found is RT,” Mercouris said.
*

 

[Tomdstone]

Did you even read the article that you are using to slander America?

This is from the article and I quote.

“An online petition at change.org calling for McLaughlin to be disbarred had more than 17,000 signatures Monday.”

So the same lawyer who introduced the bill has 17,000 people who want him to be disbarred, so much for American homophobia.

So with a population of 300,000,000 Americans there are 17000 Americans who oppose shooting homosexuals in the head? I am sure that in Russia, there would be many more than that opposing harassment of homosexuals.
The California ballot proposal shows that there is discrimination against homosexuals in the USA, as there is in other places of the world, including Russia. So the argument which singles out Russia for this is not credible.

 

[Ridgerunner]

hmmm … pot, kettle, black comes to mind. Not too unlike the way the MSM has demonised Russia for years - but it’s not working anymore as evidenced by the US and the EU stating that they now have to up their anti against the Russian media.

Through the internet, all facts can be obtained via youtube, facebook, twitter, forums, government websites, polls, etc… hence they are wasting their time.

rt.com/news/240061-eu-russia-disinformation-accusations/

EU readies action plan to counter Russian media ‘disinformation’

*European leaders are determined to tackle what they see as Russian “disinformation campaigns” and are giving the EU foreign policy chief three months to come up with ideas in how to do this, a leaked document reveals.

“The West has always claimed that it is not into propaganda, believes in free expression and in the free exchange of opinions. And yet here we are – the West setting up what to all intents and purposes sounds like a propaganda channel to broadcast the Western view into Russia. So they are saying one thing and doing the opposite,” he said.

As the Western media “speaks with one voice and says things which many people in the West find difficult to accept,” people are looking for alternative news channels, which “they consider reliable and objective, and the one they have found is RT,” Mercouris said.
*

Maybe the media where you live speaks with one voice, but they certainly don’t in the U.S. You can see them clash nightly if you wish, sometimes with three or four different takes on a single event. Or, if you prefer, you can subscribe to both “Atlantic” and “National Review” and read them both. (There are others of similar or varying ideological hues, but I’m trying to save you money here)

If the U.S. media ends up saying the same thing, you can be virtually certain the expressed facts and positions are the correct ones, because they’re all vying to be the one to present the “different angle” if they can do so at all credibly. But one would be extraordinarily foolish to accept uncritically what’s said in a Russian house organ like “Russia today”

I can’t say I blame European leaders for wanting to get the truth out to their own citizens and also to those affected concerning the falsity of Russian disinformation. The Russian regime is good at it, as is evidenced by the wrong beliefs expressed oftentimes even here on CAF. A pity.

Did you notice, by the way, that even pro-Russian Venezuela voted against Russia in the Security Council in condemning Russian aggression in Ukraine. Who would have thought such a thing? I guess sometimes it’s just impossible to swallow some garbage, however much one would like to.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You have the hammer and sickle as an avatar? My stars, man, there’s not enough water in Lake Baikal to wash the blood off that symbol.

 

[Tomdstone]

How utterly invalid this is!.

Documentation is not invalid. There is documentation that a ballot proposal is being prepared in California to shoot American homosexuals in the head.

 

[Tomdstone]

You have the hammer and sickle as an avatar? My stars, man, there’s not enough water in Lake Baikal to wash the blood off that symbol.

And yet, Americans in the south wave the Confederate flag?

 

[josie_L]

And yet, Americans in the south wave the Confederate flag?

People who are waving the confederate flag are not honouring slavery, but their Southern heritage, whereas the hammer and sickle is a symbol representative of communism, i.e., you cannot separate what those symbols on the flag mean and represent.

 

[Tomdstone]

People who are waving the confederate flag are not honouring slavery, but their Southern heritage.

Then why are they banning the display of the Confederate flag on Texas license plates? Are Americans there against southern heritage?

 

[pepipop]

People who are waving the confederate flag are not honouring slavery, but their Southern heritage, whereas the hammer and sickle is a symbol representative of communism, i.e., you cannot separate what those symbols on the flag mean and represent.

This particular banner represents the following:

*The Soviet Banner of Victory (Russian: Знамя Победы, Znamya Pobedy) is the banner raised by the Red Army soldiers on the Reichstag building in Berlin, on April 30, 1945, the day that Adolf Hitler committed suicide. It was raised by three Soviet soldiers: Alexei Berest, Mikhail Yegorov, and Meliton Kantaria, from Ukraine, Russia, and Georgia respectively.

The Victory Banner, made under battlefield conditions, is the official symbol of the Victory of the Soviet people against Nazi Germany during the second world war. It is also believed to be one of the national treasures of Russia and a symbol of the Transnistria. The Cyrillic inscription reads:

150th Rifle, Order of Kutuzov 2nd class, Idritsa Division, 79th Rifle Corps, 3rd Shock Army, 1st Byelorussian Front.* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Banner

 

[josie_L]

Documentation is not invalid. There is documentation that a ballot proposal is being prepared in California to shoot American homosexuals in the head.

It was a proposal by a nutcase that will never see the light of day (as is verified by the tens of thousands who petitioned against it), in other words, the state sponsored persecution of LGBT in Russia does not compare to the crazy ramblings of a lone wolf.

p.s. Apparently the argument against the West by posters such as yourself is that we are too lenient on gays (allowing them to proliferate their LGBT agenda), so my question to you is: are we persecuting gays or are we too lenient with them, which is it?

 

[josie_L]

Then why are they banning the display of the Confederate flag on Texas license plates? Are Americans there against southern heritage?

Before I give an answer may I have the source.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Documentation is not invalid. There is documentation that a ballot proposal is being prepared in California to shoot American homosexuals in the head.

My reference was not to the validity of the article. I don’t doubt the article exists. My reference was to the arguments.

 

[josie_L]

This particular banner represents the following:

*The Soviet Banner of Victory (Russian: Знамя Победы, Znamya Pobedy) is the banner raised by the Red Army soldiers on the Reichstag building in Berlin, on April 30, 1945, the day that Adolf Hitler committed suicide. It was raised by three Soviet soldiers: Alexei Berest, Mikhail Yegorov, and Meliton Kantaria, from Ukraine, Russia, and Georgia respectively.

The Victory Banner, made under battlefield conditions, is the official symbol of the Victory of the Soviet people against Nazi Germany during the second world war.* It is also believed to be one of the national treasures of Russia and a symbol of the Transnistria. The Cyrillic inscription reads:

150th Rifle, Order of Kutuzov 2nd class, Idritsa Division, 79th Rifle Corps, 3rd Shock Army, 1st Byelorussian Front. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Banner

It has the hammer and sickle which is representative of communism, and therefore should be anathema to any Christian, i.e., we cannot divest the flag of the symbols that are uniquely linked to a destructive atheistic ideology that has killed more individuals than any other ideology in the history of mankind.

p.s. I shouldn’t have to tell another Christian this.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Then why are they banning the display of the Confederate flag on Texas license plates? Are Americans there against southern heritage?

Some people in the U.S. (no doubt in Tx too) are offended by southern heritage, I expect. Some (no doubt many more) are offended by the battle flag, not so much for its history but because of meanings they believe have accreted to it since the Civil War.

Racist groups have not infrequently used it in their parades, ceremonies, etc. It has not been an exclusive use, because various people display it for their various reasons, including simply pride of southern heritage. It is not uncommon, particularly among young men, to display it as an expression of youthful rebellion. Some display it as a sign of contempt for the government. But inasmuch as sensitivities to the accreted messages have increased in recent years, some feel it is potentially offensive to some others and should not, therefore, be on a state license plate, notwithstanding that it is on lots of other things in Texas and other parts of the south. Seems to have been a decision of the Dept of Motor Vehicles.

Some have taken it to court because Texas allows all sorts of things on license plates (ads, pictures, etc) and the plaintiffs feel it is an unconstitutional abridgement of free speech to select the confederate battle flag for different treatment.

So, the courts will have to decide the issue, which is a free speech issue, actually.