Crimeans Who Ushered in the Russians Now Have to Live With Their Choice

[GaryTaylor]

The whole shot is a comparison to Indians to validate Putins inability to “Love Your Neighbor”

Putin loves his neighbor better than we did with the Indians.

 

[RGCheek]

No, it is wrong. Some Americans in the northern states did oppose slavery. However, there were many Americans in the south who fought to save the confederacy which supported the legalisation of slavery. And even today, Americans have hundreds of monuments dedicated to the Confederacy and to those who fought to preserve the Confederacy which supported the enslavement of innocent people.
For example, in Arkansas, we see (from wikipedia):
Arkadelphia Confederate Monument, Arkadelphia, Arkansas, listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Clark County, Arkansas
Batesville Confederate Monument, Batesville, Arkansas, listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Independence County, Arkansas
…
Jackson Guards Memorial, Newport, Arkansas, built in 1914. Monument consists of a statue of a single Confederate soldier and a roster of the men who served in the Jackson Guards and the slaves who supported them. The only Confederate monument in Arkansas built entirely with funds raised by private subscription.[14]
Pine Bluff Confederate Monument, Pine Bluff, Arkansas, listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Jefferson County, Arkansas
Searcy Confederate Monument, Searcy, Arkansas. Erected in 1917 on the grounds of the White County courhouse. Listed on the National Register of Historic Places in White County, Arkansas. Consists of a statue of a Confederate soldier.[14]
Star City Confederate Memorial, Star City, Arkansas. Erected in 1926 in the courthouse grounds, moved in 1943 and moved again to original position on town square in the 1990s. Listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Lincoln County, Arkansas. Consists of a statue of a Confederate soldier.[14]
Van Buren Confederate Monument, Van Buren, Arkansas, listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Crawford County, Arkansas
Washington Confederate Monument, Washington, Arkansas, listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Hempstead County, Arkansas
In Kentucky we see:
Confederate Monument in Augusta, Augusta, Kentucky
Confederate Monument of Bardstown, Bardstown, Kentucky
Confederate Monument of Bowling Green, Bowling Green, Kentucky
Confederate Monument of Cadiz, Cadiz, Kentucky
Confederate Monument at Crab Orchard, Crab Orchard, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Cynthiana, Cynthiana, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Danville, Danville, Kentucky
Confederate Soldiers Martyrs Monument, Eminence, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Frankfort, Frankfort, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Georgetown, Georgetown, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Glasgow, Glascow, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Harrodsburg, Harrodsburg, Kentucky
Confederate Memorial Fountain, Hopkinsville, Kentucky
Latham Confederate Monument, Hopkinsville, Kentucky
Unknown Confederate Soldier Monument, Horse Cave, Kentucky
Confederate Martyrs Monument, Jeffersontown, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Lawrenceburg, Lawrenceburg, Kentucky
John Hunt Morgan Memorial, Lexington, Kentucky
Ladies’ Confederate Memorial, Lexington, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Louisville, Louisville, Kentucky
Confederate Memorial in Mayfield, Mayfield, Kentucky
Confederate Memorial Gates in Mayfield, Mayfield, Kentucky
Martyrs Monument, Midway, Kentucky
Confederate Monument of Morganfield, Morganfield, Kentucky
Confederate Monument of Mt. Sterling, Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Murray, Murray, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Owensboro, Owensboro, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Owingsville, Owingsville, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Paducah, Paducah, Kentucky
Bourbon County Confederate Monument, Paris, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Perryville, Perryville, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Russellville, Russellville, Kentucky
Confederate Mass Grave Monument, Somerset, Kentucky
Confederate Monument in Versailles, Versailles, Kentucky
That’s only two states. How many other states have monuments dedicated to the Confederacy?
See:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_monuments

Ah, so now Southerners have no right to be proud of their own ethnic heritage? What ethnic groups does not have some mistakes in its past?

Lol, ideology kills the brain.

 

[RGCheek]

According to one reviewer on Amazon who actually read the book:

In other words, it was physically impossible for Americans to have killed 100 million people because there were only 18 million that lived north of Mexico.

p.s. The next time you site a book make sure to read it or at least quote it properly.

Don’t expect facts to get in the way of ideology.

 

[RGCheek]

The whole shot is a comparison to Indians to validate Putins inability to “Love Your Neighbor”

Putin loves his neighbor better than we did with the Indians.

I simply cannot grasp this whole notion of group guilt.

So what if your ancestors killed my ancestors? They are all dead and it is now only a question of how you and I treat each other.

Group guilt is nonsense and an incitement to further injustices among the living today.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I simply cannot grasp this whole notion of group guilt.

So what if your ancestors killed my ancestors? They are all dead and it is now only a question of how you and I treat each other.

Group guilt is nonsense and an incitement to further injustices among the living today.

Its a validation to make “killing” not sooo bad. Must be a new teaching in Russia. We could never be as decadent as you, we kill better. Makes no sense, unless you want to keep killing and rationalize it.

 

[Tomdstone]

That is total nonsense.

90% or more of Amerindian deaths were the result of disease and those tribes that chose to live in peace have not been harmed, for example there are still Amerindian tribes in Virginai, New York, Pennsylvania, Massachuhssettes and other east coast states that prove this genocide slander to be the lie it is.

How many wars were fought by the United States against the native American Indians in order to conquer them and steal their land? Was it about 100 or so wars of “armed conquest” as the people of the United States killed the native American Indians and annexed their land? I don’t see how anyone can deny that the United States embarked on an enormous armed conquest of land in North America.

“On September 8, 2000, the head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) formally apologized for the agency’s participation in the “ethnic cleansing” of Western tribes. From the forced relocation and assimilation of the “sauvage” to the white man’s way of life to the forced sterilization of Native Americans, the BIA set out to “destroy all things Indian.” Through the exploration of the United States’ Federal Indian policy, it is evident that this policy intended to “destroy, in whole or in part,” the Native American population…
No longer can we remain indifferent and justify these acts of genocide committed by the United States government, its agencies, and its personnel against Native Americans as a result of colonization or the need to establish a prosperous union. Instead, the United States government, its agencies, and those involved with carrying out the measures designed to inflict genocidal acts against the Native American population must be held in violation of customary international law, as well as conventional international law, as proscribed in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Genocide Convention)”
See:The US and the Crime of Genocide Against Native Americans
.academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/georegions/northamerica/UnitedStates02.htm
The land area stolen from the Native American Indian and annexed to the United States is huge in comparison with Crimea. Further, historically, Crimea had belonged to Russia in the past, whereas North America did not have any historical ties to the European colonialists. The Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted and still want today to be part of Russia. The American Indians, on the contrary, fought to the death to protect their land against the armed conquerors of the United States.

In addition, spending money in Crimea only helps the Putin regime. I would not spend a nickel to support that regime, and no person who opposes armed conquest should.

It makes no sense to avoid spending a nickel in Crimea because it is supposedly a victim of armed conquest (which it is not, since the Crimeans overwhelmingly voted to join Mother Russia) while at the same time spending thousands of dollars in the United States.

 

[Tomdstone]

Ah, so now Southerners have no right to be proud of their own ethnic heritage? What ethnic groups does not have some mistakes in its past?

Lol, ideology kills the brain.

What ethnic heritage are they proud of? Is that the heritage of enslaving innocent people which is one reason why the Confederacy fought the North?
If I were a slave, I would not laugh or LOL at the ideology of enslaving me, my wife and my children and friends. I would weep all day and night as I and my wife and children were being beaten by the Confederate slavemaster. I would try to keep my brain alive and working, as the southern slavemaster tries to kill it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

It makes no sense to avoid spending a nickel in Crimea because it is supposedly a victim of armed conquest (which it is not, since the Crimeans overwhelmingly voted to join Mother Russia) while at the same time spending thousands of dollars in the United States.

Supposedly, supposedly Russia Loves Your Neighbor better than everyone while threatening the world with nuclear warfare.

The Sunnis in Tikrit supposedly wanted to join Isis after being overrun. Confessions under duress are hardly worth a glance.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Originally Posted by Son of Niall View Post
Brush up on your history, the Civil War was not about ending slavery. Lincoln and northerners didn’t give a fig about African Americans.
Secondly, the original inhabitants of North America are referred to as “native Americans”, not “Amerindians”, whatever that is. Otherwise they like to be referred to by whatever tribe they belonged to.
As to how many we killed, after a million does it really make a difference?
And those diseases were brought here by Europeans, in many cases, spread deliberately to “Ethnically cleanse” the New World.

Lets get this straight, so we flipped out 42 times over the supposed exaggeration about nuclear threats by Russia. But the double standard here is in full effect here?

I don’t understand the double standard, could you elaborate? See, I didn’t participate here on this thread, but I did read it. I can’t help but see a “constant” double standard. I apologize and really didn’t even want to mention it. But its impossible to miss. Maybe a very good logical reason why exaggeration is permissive in one case but not the other, but I can’t see it? Thanks

Originally Posted by Son of Niall View Post
Here’s an exact quote from the interview:

Where in the interview did Putin say what was in the thread title?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Lets get this straight, so we went out of the way many times over the supposed exaggeration about nuclear threats by Russia. But the double standard here is in full effect here?

I don’t understand the double standard, could you elaborate? See, I didn’t participate here on this thread, but I did read it. I can’t help but see a “constant” double standard. I apologize and really didn’t even want to mention it. But its impossible to miss. Maybe a very good logical reason why exaggeration is permissive in one case but not the other, but I can’t see it? Thanks

Sorry -DP-Thank You.

 

[BackHand]

You are forgetting about the one million American confederate soldiers who fought on the side of the Confederacy which supported slavery. Have you heard about the American confederate soldiers Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee? Also, you are forgetting about the hundreds of American monuments, existing today, which are dedicated to the Confederacy which supported slavery.

Are you saying the Confederates who committed treason, tried to form their own nation, and fought a bloody war to do so are Americans? Those million southerners were not apart of the United States during the war, so its not fare to lump them in with the abolitionist north. Also who cares about some old statue’s collecting bird poop its not like we have a giant monument in Washington, DC. Lady liberty doesn’t hold a whip, if she did maybe it would be to stop genocidal murders, or some how give billions in foreign aid, all thing’s America has done. If you want to talk about past events then lets talk about the Soviet invasion of Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the Genocide of Ukraine.

This all is of course near pointless to talk about because we are talking about the present not the eighteen hundreds, what America has done in the past does, in no way shape or form, excuse what Putin is doing now, that murderer kills his political rival’s, cracks down on free speech, and invades a neighboring nation stop defending him.

 

[BackHand]

What ethnic heritage are they proud of? Is that the heritage of enslaving innocent people which is one reason why the Confederacy fought the North?
If I were a slave, I would not laugh or LOL at the ideology of enslaving me, my wife and my children and friends. I would weep all day and night as I and my wife and children were being beaten by the Confederate slavemaster. I would try to keep my brain alive and working, as the southern slavemaster tries to kill it.

If I was a Ukrainian dieing of Stalin’s artificial famine I would not LOL at the Soviet ideology of starving me. I would weep all day and night as I and my wife and Children were being beaten by the Soviet occupier I would try to keep my brain alive and working, as the Russian communist’s tries to kill it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Gareth_Jones_Holodomor16.jpg

Just a few victims of the Holodomor which killed 2.5-7.5 million Ukrainians.Try Googling images of the Holodomor and the Holocaust see if you can tell the difference. Also fun fact this is part of the reason why Crimea is so ethnically Russian.

 

[GaryTaylor]

All tragic, all a direct result of conflict. Trauma, its very hard to see “Love Your Neighbor” in fact I’m of the firm belief its only through Christ its seen. There’s no way out of the trauma hate, killing, self contained box otherwise. Its not the radical islamists, Russians, Americans, its the conditioning and indoctrination confirmed by trauma and some illusion of God and Country. God doesn’t want you to wipe out creation, kill the people, poison the water, air, and slaughter into extinction his animals and creation.

He wants you to “Love Your Neighbor”, and by doing so you free yourself from the above. You cannot love God and hate your neighbor, its impossible.

 

[Tbrightson]

This all is of course near pointless to talk about because we are talking about the present not the eighteen hundreds, what America has done in the past does, in no way shape or form, excuse what Putin is doing now, that murderer kills his political rival’s, cracks down on free speech, and invades a neighboring nation stop defending him.

Exactly. They have to go back over a 150 years ago or more to get their “whataboutism”
rationalization. So lame. As if some sin by some long dead Americans makes what Putin did ok. Just shows the moral bankruptcy of their argument.

 

[pepipop]

Supposedly, supposedly Russia Loves Your Neighbor better than everyone while threatening the world with nuclear warfare.

The Sunnis in Tikrit supposedly wanted to join Isis after being overrun. Confessions under duress are hardly worth a glance.

In relation to Love thy Neighbour. Which country has been involved in, or started the most wars and hence deaths, since WW11?

I don’t think it is Russia.

 

[Tbrightson]

Unlike other civilized and prosperous countries who have done so, as long as Russia refuses to come to terms with its errors it will always be a stagnant, also ran country.
There is no evidence it will do so anytime soon given its leader and supporters(supposedly 80%) want to relive to “good old days” rather than bury them and join the rest the civilized world:

youtube.com/watch?v=DRTbwTO9c8s#t=19

thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/from-russia-with-love-a-nuclear-suppository-for-obama-t16006.html

 

[Tbrightson]

I found this funny, yet truthy explanation off the Russian psyche. I edited out the “bad word” lest I harm some tender sensibilities. Use your own substitution. It also wouldnt be fair to use the blanket word “Russian” instead as not all think this way, just enough to make themselves an irritant:

The ******* has nothing but white-hot hatred for Ukraine. They rocked the boat. They thought they had a way out of the Russian sphere. Why should they have it better? The ******* spends a good portion of his time regurgitating the same tired old tropes about Ukraine. They whored out to the Americans, just like every other country which doesn’t submit itself under Moscow’s vassalage. The ******* always puts the relationship between individuals or countries and the US in explicit terms of sexual dominance, a telling sign of Russia’s sometimes amusing but ultimately disturbing masculinity crisis. Refusal to bow to Putin’s Russia is bending over or getting down on one’s knees for the United States, the only other country in the world that matters. To this end the ******* likes to portray his enemies as prostitutes or passive homosexuals, unwittingly revealing his fears and insecurities about sexual domination and humiliation. Insults revolving around oral and anal sex are par-for-the course when discussing politics with the *******, regardless of age.

While on that topic, the ******* despises homosexuals. He knows from watching Russian state-owned media that the West is “Sodom and Gomorrah.” He refers to Europe as “Gayropa,” and his best argument against the EU Association Agreement at the heart of Maidan was that it would lead to same-sex marriage in Ukraine- even though it had nothing to do with that. The ******* is utterly unconcerned with the fact that thousands of Russian children in the country’s dilapidated orphanage system are subject to physical and sexual abuse. His concern is that those children might be adopted by citizens of countries which allow same-sex marriage. He doesn’t care if children as young as 9 and 10 smoke in the park, drink alco-energy beverages, or watch their father and mother drunkenly fight at 1 AM, but he’s terribly concerned about the dangers of “gay propaganda.”
The ******* is happy to tell you about his deep regard for the Russian Orthodox faith and its traditions in spite of never going to church. He believes Putin is defending Russia’s Christian traditions from the degenerate West, even as he sees young women emerging from discotheque on the arms of shady businessmen, ten to twenty years their senior and with wives and children at home. He considers Russia a bastion of morality in spite of the fact that men stand outside metro exits handing out catalogs of prostitutes.
By and large the *******’s most uncanny ability is holding mutually exclusive ideas at the same time while being utterly oblivious to the glaring contradiction. He laments the destruction of Lenin monuments in Ukraine while insisting that the Ukrainian nation and its language were insidious inventions by Lenin, the bastard who murdered the Tsar and his family. He can never shut up about how Russia’s grandfathers fought and singlehandedly won the Second World War, yet he harbors a soft spot for Nazi Germany and fascism out of his unflagging admiration for strong, authoritarian leaders. To the *******, the only bad side of Nazi Germany and fascism in general is that they attacked the Soviet Union, beyond that the ******* has no qualms about racism, anti-Semitism, or authoritarianism. He insists that anyone living in Russia should speak Russian, but he squeals with bristling anger at the idea of Russians living in former Soviet republics being required to learn the local language. He says that Ukrainians and Russians are “brother peoples” and yet despises the “invented” Ukrainian language and any cultural distinction between the two.

 

[GaryTaylor]

In relation to Love thy Neighbour. Which country has been involved in, or started the most wars and hence deaths, since WW11?

I don’t think it is Russia.

So then you believe this validates war? Your more decadent than us, so wait we’ll catch right up. More of that good logic. Sounds like the grandchildren fighting to me.

 

[Ridgerunner]

“In 1493, when Columbus returned to the Hispaniola, he quickly implemented policies of slavery and mass extermination of the Taino population of the Caribbean. Within three years, five million were dead. Las Casas, the primary historian of the Columbian era, writes of many accounts of the horrors that the Spanish colonists inflicted upon the indigenous population: hanging them en mass, hacking their children into pieces to be used as dog feed, and other horrid cruelties. The works of Las Casas are often omitted from popular American history books and courses because Columbus is considered a hero by many, even today.
Mass killing did not cease, however, after Columbus departed. Expansion of the European colonies led to similar genocides. “Indian Removal” policy was put into action to clear the land for white settlers. Methods for the removal included slaughter of villages by the military and also biological warfare. High death rates resulted from forced marches to relocate the Indians.”
iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html

I’m aware that some like to disparage America by disparaging Columbus, but a lot of it is mythology.

Columbus was already dead when Las Casas first set foot in the New World, and hadn’t governed there for more than 20 years. So Las Casas had no firsthand knowledge of how Columbus governed or how many Indians died.

The West Indies were, when Las Casas arrived, governed by Columbus’ successors; the first of them being a bitter rival who slandered Columbus before the King and Queen of Spain. Those monarchs, upon inquiry, dismissed the accusations. Undoubtedly Las Casas got his “information” from those slanders, and is likely the reason historians don’t use Las Casas as a source.

Five million deaths in three years, other than by disease, does not seem credible. Even Hitler barely managed that with modern methods, extreme German efficiency, and far more men than Columbus ever had.

Never did the American colonists use biological warfare against the Indians. Briefly, the Brits did, giving the Mohawks blankets they thought infected with smallpox. But that was not an American practice.

Sometimes “Indian removal” was employed, sometimes not. Sometimes “Indian removal” was performed by Indians themselves. That was the case in the Ozarks, where I live, also in Kentucky. In my area, earlier populations were wiped out by the Osage from the north, before the white settlers came. The Osage wanted the area depopulated for their own “hunting preserve”. They didn’t even live here. Whites didn’t drive out the Osage. the Osage moved to Oklahoma on their own because other latecoming tribes were decimating the game. Those later Indians mostly intermarried with white settlers who came later. Kentucky was likewise depopulated by Ohio Valley tribes for the same reason.

The tribes referred to as the “Sioux” and their related tribe, the “Cheyenne” were also newcomers onto the territory they are now known to have inhabited on the Great Plains. They were woodland tribes who butchered and enslaved the tribes that were there before. Likewise, the Comanche were latecomers to the Southern Plains, having butchered and driven out the Apache who were there before them.

But no matter what, the deaths in Latin America of native tribes are not attributable to settlers of the U.S. or even their diseases. In Latin America, disease was also the big killer.

None of that, of course, has anything to do with Russia’s conquest of Ukraine or Russia’s starting an aggressive war in Europe in our own time, any more than Hitler’s seizure of Poland can be excused by what happened centuries ago in a wilderness. Reaching back hundreds of years for a “tu toque” argument and doing it selectively, pretty much confirms that Russia’s aggression is indefensible and that Putin’s supporters know it whether they admit it or not.

 

[Tbrightson]

Find/Replace in MS Word works great…Dont want to offend any delicate flowers.