Cringe when asked how may kids you want

[Moore11]

See, this kind of thinking is exactly what I object to. It amounts to you prematurely judging people because you have already made too broad of a generalization about this particular matter.

Well if she resented having me then, yeah, that would be hurtful. But what about someone who absolutely wants whatever God wants for them, and would joyfully accept whatever number of children they had, even if it wasn’t their current preference. thats the way I am. I absolutely know that I will be happy with however many children I have, that doesn’t change the fact that I also happen to have a preference. And having a preference does not make me selfish or someone who rejects God’s will. It is wrong of you to make the assumption that the fact that I have apreference about this means that I am selfish and that I am putting my own personal preference before God’s will because that just isn’t the case.

ETA: and, no, if my mother admitted to having at one point had a preference for two kids, but then changed her mind or even if I was a surprise that she joyfully embraced and loved and was grateful for, then I would have no problems with that whatsoever. Who cares about what she used to think she wanted, all that matters is that she has now discovered about what she truly wants, that she truly wants me and is happy that I am there. The fact that at one time she used to have a different preference would not bother me in the least.

If you think that is what I am doing then you have seriously misunderstood me. Please be willing to consider that you do not yet understand what I believe about this since this statement makes it very clear that you do not.

Where did I ever say I have decided concretely to have 5 kids? Nowhere. You are making assumptions about my attitude and opinions on this just because I have admitted to having a preference. This is precisely why I objected to your overgeneralized statement in the first place, it leads to premature judgement of others because of making unwarrented assumptions about them.

It is a silly argument we are having.
Go ahead keep putting a number on your kids. I dont really care that much.
As long as you are discerning God’s will good for you. Though I think when we vocalize our wants in regards to family planning it makes it infinitely harder to really hear that little whisper from God.
But if you like numbers and that kind of thinking go ahead. Just dont ask me how many I want, because you will get an earful of preaching in a grocery store.

 

[thewanderer]

I am not too extreme. I think there is value in making an effort to have our vocabulary and interactions with people be times of evangelization and I am also a fan of having a healthy attitude to holiness. Meanwhile I fully understand that we cannot and do not always focus on God like we should.
Actually I think the extreme view would be the one that says “I don’t want to think about becoming better or more God centered i just want to wallow in secular language and I am not interested in making an effort to become more God centered in my language and views.”

While I can certainly see different sides of this. What if wanderer said in Pope Francis like humility. "You know, this conversation has made me think about this issue and what we are REALLY saying when we put a number on children in our family. Even though I meant it innocently.

Like I said. Because of the fallen nature of our culture this issue is different from others.

As you can see from the previous posts.
People can be hurt or offended by this.
Some people are hurt if you dont think they have enough kids.
Some are hurt because they cant have more.
Some are hurt because people think they have too many kids.
Some are hurt when they are judged for not having any kids.
Some are hurt for many many reasons.

For these reasons alone it should be in the category of asking a woman how much she weighs.

What if we just celebrated and supported families of all sizes.

I just want to make it clear that I do not really think this is a question people should go around asking, precisely for the reasons you have given, it is often a hurtful question as it can be such a delicate issue for so many people. I wasn’t speaking to those who were asking the question. Nor was I suggesting that we should not celebrate and support families of all different sizes. OF COURSE I believe we should celebrate and support families of all sizes and that we should never judge another based on the size of their family and I never meant to imply anything of the sort.

Specifically, I was speaking to the overgeneralization made on this thread that if someone has a current preference as to a certain family size they must be putting their own preferences above God’s will. That is just plainly false and it is wrong to assume that others are failing to submit to God’s will simply because they admit to currently having a preference. To do so is judgemental.

 

[thewanderer]

It is a silly argument we are having.
Go ahead keep putting a number on your kids. I dont really care that much.
As long as you are discerning God’s will good for you. Though I think when we vocalize our wants in regards to family planning it makes it infinitely harder to really hear that little whisper from God.
But if you like numbers and that kind of thinking go ahead. Just dont ask me how many I want, because you will get an earful of preaching in a grocery store.

Its not that I like numbers, I just am willing to be honest with myself and others about the fact that I am the way that I am. That would also include telling others that while I currently have one preference that preference will most likely change over time. In particular, it will change with a continued discernment of God’s will for me and my family. I just don’t understand the harsh reactions some on this thread have claimed to have with people who are simply being honest about the fact that they have a preference. I’d also love to be financially stable enough to give my kids music lessons. Now, that may not be God’s wil for me and my family, but is it wrong that I have this preference? No, its not, so long as I am willing to accept God’s will. Similarly it is not wrong to have a preference for a family size, so long as you are open to God’s will and always ready to put His will before your own.

 

[Moore11]

Its not that I like numbers, I just am willing to be honest with myself and others about the fact that I am the way that I am. That would also include telling others that while I currently have one preference that preference will most likely change over time. In particular, it will change with a continued discernment of God’s will for me and my family. I just don’t understand the harsh reactions some on this thread have claimed to have with people who are simply being honest about the fact that they have a preference. I’d also love to be financially stable enough to give my kids music lessons. Now, that may not be God’s wil for me and my family, but is it wrong that I have this preference? No, its not, so long as I am willing to accept God’s will. Similarly it is not wrong to have a preference for a family size, so long as you are open to God’s will and always ready to put His will before your own.

ok, I can see it is a personal issue for you. I’ll leave it.

 

[thewanderer]

ok, I can see it is a personal issue for you. I’ll leave it.

lol, the number of children thing isn’t actually personal for me. I just have a pet peeve of people who judge others or claim others are acting immorally because of overgeneralizations they make. This pertains not only to preferences about family size, but to just about anything under the sun. If I see somebody making an overgeneralization I find it hard to stop myself from stepping in to try and correct them and get them to see that there are exceptions to it. Oh well, Have a good day.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

I remember when before I got married the parish gave me a questionnaire that asked how many kids I want when I get married? Like I was going to have some kind of choice in the matter assuming regular relations.

I remember a similar question on one of the questionnaires we filled out prior to marriage. I always thought the point of that question was to make sure that those seeking marriage did indeed want children (if someone answered “zero” that would be a problem), as well as to flag any differences that the couple might have (e.g. if one member of the couple believed that it was wrong to have more than one child, and the other wanted a large family with as many children as God sends).

That said, we always have to realize that our preferences on family size, as well as our preferences on everything else, are just that – preferences. Ultimately, God is in control.

 

[Moore11]

lol, the number of children thing isn’t actually personal for me. I just have a pet peeve of people who judge others or claim others are acting immorally because of overgeneralizations they make. This pertains not only to preferences about family size, but to just about anything under the sun. If I see somebody making an overgeneralization I find it hard to stop myself from stepping in to try and correct them and get them to see that there are exceptions to it. Oh well, Have a good day.

Oh I get it. And I understand. The other POV does need a voice.
You are displaying the type of POV that I call the NPR point of view. I am not calling you a liberal that is not what I mean. But if you have ever heard NPR they pride themselves on finding the exception to every stereotype. So they might find a gay republican to interview, or a African American KKK member, or a rosary praying Calvanist. A kindle fan who is a librarian…etc.
I remember them interviewing only people who were making money in the housing crash. Sometimes it is interesting, sometimes it is comical.

Hope you take all of that with a smile, it is just a general observation I have had. The fact that I labeled you and had a “general observation” about you will probably offend an NPR POV person.

 

[Debora123]

Oh I get it. And I understand. The other POV does need a voice.
You are displaying the type of POV that I call the NPR point of view. I am not calling you a liberal that is not what I mean. But if you have ever heard NPR they pride themselves on finding the exception to every stereotype. So they might find a gay republican to interview, or a African American KKK member, or a rosary praying Calvanist. A kindle fan who is a librarian…etc.
I remember them interviewing only people who were making money in the housing crash. Sometimes it is interesting, sometimes it is comical.

Hope you take all of that with a smile, it is just a general observation I have had. The fact that I labeled you and had a “general observation” about you will probably offend an NPR POV person.

Um, you really need to work on how you talk to people. You’re coming off extremely self righteous, judgmental, and at this point, uncharitable. :nope:

 

[Moore11]

Um, you really need to work on how you talk to people. You’re coming off extremely self righteous, judgmental, and at this point, uncharitable. :nope:

LOL ok. I’ll work on it.
Hopefully wanderer has a sense of humor because it was all in fun.
I know better than to get into it with you. I’ll back off:shrug:

 

[Debora123]

LOL ok. I’ll work on it.
Hopefully wanderer has a sense of humor because it was all in fun.
I know better than to get into it with you. I’ll back off:shrug:

Good!

 

[thewanderer]

Oh I get it. And I understand. The other POV does need a voice.
You are displaying the type of POV that I call the NPR point of view. I am not calling you a liberal that is not what I mean. But if you have ever heard NPR they pride themselves on finding the exception to every stereotype. So they might find a gay republican to interview, or a African American KKK member, or a rosary praying Calvanist. A kindle fan who is a librarian…etc.
I remember them interviewing only people who were making money in the housing crash. Sometimes it is interesting, sometimes it is comical.

Hope you take all of that with a smile, it is just a general observation I have had. The fact that I labeled you and had a “general observation” about you will probably offend an NPR POV person.

ha, well its not even just a matter of representing the other point of view (though I do tend to that sometimes as well ) but moreso when someone makes a universal claim that is not actually universal, it bugs the heck out of me because I see that it isn’t actually universal, and so I just get this itch to correct it and make sure that people realize there is more to the story. What can I say, I am just very detail-oriented.

ETA: And to be honest it gets me in trouble sometimes, when people don’t understand why I would care about making a distinction for the exception, oh well.

 

[Ms_Manners]

I remember a similar question on one of the questionnaires we filled out prior to marriage. I always thought the point of that question was to make sure that those seeking marriage did indeed want children (if someone answered “zero” that would be a problem), as well as to flag any differences that the couple might have (e.g. if one member of the couple believed that it was wrong to have more than one child, and the other wanted a large family with as many children as God sends).

We had a question about the number of children, but the questionnaires were anonymous, so I think it was more to see what we thought about it, to know what they are dealing with, and to have a record of how those things change over time, than to find out who should maybe not be married.

 

[Moore11]

ha, well its not even just a matter of representing the other point of view (though I do tend to that sometimes as well ) but moreso when someone makes a universal claim that is not actually universal, it bugs the heck out of me because I see that it isn’t actually universal, and so I just get this itch to correct it and make sure that people realize there is more to the story. What can I say, I am just very detail-oriented.

ETA: And to be honest it gets me in trouble sometimes, when people don’t understand why I would care about making a distinction for the exception, oh well.

My head is spinning. I can’t even remember what “universal claim” we are talking about!
Did we really just argue about numbers and kids? Did I take the position that it is universally wrong to have a number and you took the position that it can be right to take a number if in a concentration camp with mel Gibson while on morphine?!?

LOL honestly I dont even understand what we are debating.
Sometimes I find someone who I pick apart some little thing they said or some point I find annoying that does not really matter or play some silly semantic word game with fantastical scenarios. It is the “debater” in me. And it is silly.

I may have done that here.

It is a good thing all the other people have me to tell them what is right. And you to tell them what is universal or not! Where would all the little people be without us?

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I have never heard anyone who originally wanted 2 kids but had more say anything like “yeah, I wanted 2 kids but ended up with three… dang it.”

Now you have: My parents. And I was the 3rd. It’s incredibly hurtful being told your entire life you’re an “accident.” (what’s even worse is after they divorced my mom remarried and had another child, who was NOT considered and “accident”, even though she was “unplanned” as well).

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[Ms_Manners]

I’ve known all my life I was an accident, as well as my sister.
However, my mother always told me how happy they were about it, once she told me she felt like singing in the streets on her way home. It has really stayed with me.
Unplanned and unwanted can be two very different things, but handling such a situation is up to the parent.

Allgirls, I am sorry your parents dealt with it in such a way.