Crucifix

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Now you are trying to prosletyze me.

Believe me you don’t want me in your church. First of all I wouldn’t last 10 minutes before I’m excommunicated.
Why exactly would you be excommunicated? How do you define the word excommunication anyway?
Secondly, do you think I will sit in the pew in silent submission? Not A chance. I would not be silent till all things were made right.
Again, why?
I haven’t even touched on all the issues I have with catholic dogma. Mary and the saints are just the tip of the iceberg. And I know I can’t get anywhere with those two issues.
Having read some conversion stories, I can see you’re also on the point where Mary and the Saints are an obstacle. Those converts I have read also had a hard time just like you. But being a cradle Catholic, I can’t exactly understand why they are some hurdle to Protestants. Why is that?
 
the catholics I meet on the street and the ones in my family are still practicing the very things I am refering to. Do you have any idea how many people carry around rosaries or a crucifix because they think it will protect them, even though they have very little faith in God?
I’m really curious about this statement now newbie. Do you seriously take the time to ask every single person you meet in the street who’s wearing a crucifix or Rosary to explain to you exactly why they’re doing so? If I did that it’d be two hours or more of my day gone every day.

How many roughly HAVE you asked so far and out of those how many have given you the answer that ‘it protects me’ and also voluntarily added ‘I have very little faith in God?’ Sounds like you’re making that bit up, newbie, unless you claim the ability to read their minds and hearts.
 
Do you have any idea how many people carry around rosaries or a crucifix because they think it will protect them, even though they have very little faith in God?
Some people might do it for the reasons stated above, but not all Catholics who do so because they treat it as an amulet yet have little faith in God. Just how many is ‘many’?
 
What I have been taught doesn’t gel with my bible.
Of course it doesn’t. Either you misunderstood what you were taught, or you were taught error, or you just to want it to. One of the three.
Whether or not it gels with catholic teaching is not clear because I know plenty of catholics who believe these things.
We’re trying to tell you what exactly that teaching is to educate you about your misconceptions. You’re choosing to believe error over the truth.
Here on catholic apologetics, everyone is trained with the answers to these questions,
When you come across the same accusations over, and over, and over, it becomes reflex. And since we have the answers, the truths about our faith, perhaps you should listen to what we have to say instead of settling for your misconceptions.
but the catholics I meet on the street and the ones in my family are still practicing the very things I am refering to.
If they are doing exactly the things you say then they are in the wrong. Statues are not to be worshipped. Period. We keep trying to tell you this, but I think the truth would force you out of your comfort zone and you’d rather hide behind the lies you’ve been taught.
Do you have any idea how many people carry around rosaries or a crucifix because they think it will protect them, even though they have very little faith in God?
Do you honestly have any idea? Because I don’t. I can’t read minds so therefore I’m forced to take everyone at their word and not assume what’s in their heart.

I carry a rosary. Does that mean I have little faith in God? Quite a nice rosary imho, I went to this website where you can make your own custom rosary. You can pick the beads, the links, crucifix, center, everything!

It’s ok though Newbie, I think I understand why you brush us all off. I’ll tell you why, but I know you’ll disagree. Agree or not, all I need is for you to read it.

You act this way because you’re affraid. Plain and simple. I think you know Catholicism much better than you’re letting on. You’d rather stick with your misconceptions than to look at any evidence to the contrary. Why? Because it just might make sense. And if that happened then you’d need to reevaluate your entire belief structure, and question every lie you’ve been told.

You need your misconceptions to be true to validate your beliefs. Much if not all of a protestant’s beliefs stem from his own interpretation. If that interpretation is thwarted, then that calls into question everything he has based on his interpretation. Solution? Shut your mind off to everything but what you make it to be. If you never listen then your beliefs can never be challenged. You’re safe.

But we’re saying that by hiding behind this wall of lies you’ve built for yourself, you’re stifling the initial grace of faith God gave to you. You’re acting like the servant who was given a gold coin and kept it wadded up in a napkin, never fully using or exploring what the king had given him. It’s your responsibility to pursue Truth, and to not be still until you’ve run out of questions to ask.

I know you’ll say that you have found exactly the Truth and how happy you are, blah blah blah. The reason why I strongly don’t think so is because to have made an informed decision, you need to be informed. You are obviously not informed about Catholicism. Therefore there are still unknown avenues of faith that you have not explored, which threatens to invalidate your decision. You don’t want to go through a spiritual wilderness again, you’re scared and so you shut yourself off from the truth, and you smother that little voice inside that says,“What if I’m wrong?”…

Lemme tell ya something; It would be a terrible thing to find out you were so very close to the truth, but lacked the courage to fully investigate it. If it’s not eating at you now then it will. You know full well you’ve left Catholicism unexplored. Even if it may not be the truth (not so) you know that risk isn’t worth taking. And you’d have no one to blame but yourself.

Come explore Catholicism with an open heart. Learn the true meanings and throw away your misconceptions. If it’s still not for you, then you’re no worse off. If you believe yourself unshakable in your faith then you have nothing to lose.

I went through something very similiar. So did Church Militant. I know where you’re at, and some of the things you may be feeling.

If you still disagree then that’s fine, I can’t say I didn’t try. Just so you know it’s not like we’re paid by the convert. We do this because we care. Arguing really isn’t that fun for me. But when someone’s immortal life could be on the line, it’s worth the trouble, imo.

I hope you think about what I and others have said. Have fun on your trip.
 
What I have been taught doesn’t gel with my bible.
Well, you have been shown that you have been taught wrong. I personally doubt you were taught at all. I don’t believe you ever were Catholic at all. I believe you are a pawn of the “The Great Deceiver”.
Whether or not it gels with catholic teaching is not clear because I know plenty of catholics who believe these things.
It does Gel, but you have to let loose of Satan and his underminings.
Here on catholic apologetics, everyone is trained with the answers to these questions,
Trained? Most the Apologetic types here are Converts. You could not be further from the truth. My studies of the Bible as a child had shown me the Catholic teaching even though I no clue what a Catholic was.
but the catholics I meet on the street and the ones in my family are still practicing the very things I am refering to.
It is only your perception and Satan that is showing you this.
Do you have any idea how many people carry around rosaries or a crucifix because they think it will protect them, even though they have very little faith in God?
You are so misguided and deluded. These people carry a Crucifix and/or Rosary because their Faith in God is the strongest of most.
 
Newbie1234 said: I haven’t even touched on all the issues I have with catholic dogma. Mary and the saints are just the tip of the iceberg. And I know I can’t get anywhere with those two issues.
Of course you can’t. God will not allow you to triumph over the members of the Church he created. The RCC is protected against Satan and his minions via the Keys Jesus gave to Peter. Jesus has promised to guide his church in all truth.
 
Newbie1234 said: Do you have any idea how many people carry around rosaries or a crucifix because they think it will protect them, even though they have very little faith in God?
Yes my Rosary and Crucifix do protect me. They are a part of my Armor of God.

The Crucifix is my shield against Satan because it is the constant reminder of Jesus did for me on the Cross. As Paul writes:
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ:…
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified,
and as John writes:
John 3:16:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, …
The Crucifix also reminds me to always pick up my own Cross and follow Christ as spoken by Jesus:
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
The Rosary is my sword that pierces the heart of Satan and his wicked Angels by keeping me in continuous Godly Prayer.

Don’t knock the Physical tools God has given us.

Here is a challenge to you while you are snowboarding. Give God A Tenth of your time by snowboarding for 54 minutes and then pray for 6 minutes.

Even better, give God a Tenth of your time in prayer. That is 144 minutes of prayer. hmmmmmmmmm what a coincidence that 10% of 24 hours is 144 minutes. Can you pray for 144 minutes straight?
 
Yes my Rosary and Crucifix

Don’t knock the Physical tools God has given us.
I heard father corapi talking about our spiritual tools one time and he started off with the devil haveng tools such as Weji boards, Vodoo dolls whatever he has plenty of them. No one can say that satan does not have tools. So why would God not give us tools?

I still have not heard a response on manger scenes do they not think this is wrong. Maybe they responded to this if they did let me know what post.
 
I think I can understand where Newbi is coming from but not sure where he or she is going. I had a mother just like that. Everything was literal by the book and if you didn’t do a certain thing you would go to hell, such fear of hell was overwhelming that it cancels the love and mercy. Putting the fear of God in me i guess. Well my mother is still with me but she doesn’t have that old fire in her anymore and I miss it.

Two older ladies welcomed me back into the faith at my church and started to spill out all this stuff just like my mother did. At first it seemed frightening and a lot of the people in the church I think feel it is a little frighteving. I was curious and just soaked it up like a sponge. They really taught me to pray.

But I sense in them a feeling of like the old saying about being so heavenly minded you are no earthly good. And when I have gotten to know them better it is a real nervous faith and they have a lot of time on their hands so they neglect some of their earthly duties or are just lonely at home so are in the church every day. And they go to other churches to receive the host 2 times a day and go to confession whenever they feel theslightest of sin and there are plenty of things to do with 4 Catholic churches and a Catholic nursing home to boot. They have said they are trying to get the many of blessings they can as compared to someone wanting all the candy in the store.
They are very smart ladies as they can tell if a certain priest is holy or pure or not and watch out that priest I’m sure better have an umbrella on hand because it will rain down on him for sure.

Of course I picked up on this and could see a somewhat of a power going on here but it is a bussyness that they didn’t really hear the voice of God because they never slow down.

One lady talked about relics and a story about how in the old days cutting very holy saints hearts out and putting them in a tomb and healings going on. This was frightening to me but also fascinating as I only considered that power in witchcraft as the devil I didn’t know God could have this power even today.

My dh and I were talking about this the other day bless his soul, he and I are talking more and more about the bible and my Catholic faith and he reminded me about the scripture not sure where it is? He knows lots of sripture but also doesn’t know exactly he just tells good sotries. The story is that Moses was of course trying to bargain with pharoh for the release of the Isrealites.And the pharohs magicians through down to sticks that became snakes :eek: how scary my dh said you would have lost your cookies i said no i would have done the biggest pole vault over the castle wall you ever saw and I’m afraid of hights, but he said Moses took his rod and it turned into the biggest snake ever and ate up the other two 👍 just swallowed them down like two long noodles:) Well he said who do you think has more power now?

Isn’t that a cool story and illustrates that our faith is in the supreme power on this earth Jesus Christ the second person in the trinity. dessert
 
Yes my Rosary and Crucifix do protect me. They are a part of my Armor of God.

The Crucifix is my shield against Satan because it is the constant reminder of Jesus did for me on the Cross. As Paul writes:
and as John writes:
The Crucifix also reminds me to always pick up my own Cross and follow Christ as spoken by Jesus:

The Rosary is my sword that pierces the heart of Satan and his wicked Angels by keeping me in continuous Godly Prayer.

Don’t knock the Physical tools God has given us.

Here is a challenge to you while you are snowboarding. Give God A Tenth of your time by snowboarding for 54 minutes and then pray for 6 minutes.

Even better, give God a Tenth of your time in prayer. That is 144 minutes of prayer. hmmmmmmmmm what a coincidence that 10% of 24 hours is 144 minutes. Can you pray for 144 minutes straight?
Yes I wholeheartily agree it is the prayer behind the tools and our faith that feeds our prayer and when you have a rosary in your hands or gaze your eyes upon the crucifix to see what Jesus did for us it keeps the senses aware of and the mind focused on the King of all glory. I sometimes don’t even realize the minutes going past and before it has been an hour gone by. dessert
 
Perhaps Newbie has a “selective memory”. Perhaps he/she is just lying outright. It is superstition to apply to an object the power given to God. I will say again that the devil hates the crucifix too.
 
Perhaps Newbie has a “selective memory”. Perhaps he/she is just lying outright. It is superstition to apply to an object the power given to God. I will say again that the devil hates the crucifix too.
The devil is defeated because of the cross so it is the devil that is bringing on the fear as there is a scripture verse about God is only the author of faith, right? dessert
 
I would say that is probably correct. I am not sure what you mean when you say God is the author of faith. He certainly is the source of all power.

A religious image, or icon would lead the onlooker to lift his mind upward to God and heavenly things. If it inspires behavior that leads the onlooker to a more closer walk with God, what is the problem? Yes, I would say that fear of these objects is authored by the enemy of our souls. I believe it does more harm than we even realize.
 
The devil is defeated because of the cross so it is the devil that is bringing on the fear as there is a scripture verse about God is only the author of faith, right? dessert
aye mate. sort of.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Satan is the Author of Confusion…
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
I actually have a pretty simple comment/question

before I really began using the rosary, asking the saints intercession, haveing crucifixs in my cubical, etc, my devotion to god was, well, OK at best…

Its funny, the moment I started using these items, I have found my devotion to God increases exponentially, Whats more, the devotion i feel goes beyond when I am just praying the rosary and /or looking at a cross.

Before, I would only really feel that ‘devotion’ when i am in random intermitton, but deep prayer.
Now I have that same feeling of devotion to Christ even when I am not activily praying.

My Question is this, if by using these things is wrong, why has my devotion to Christ increased so much…

If such actions were evil, then why is My faith and devotion to God increasing…

Simple question…

In Christ
 
I actually have a pretty simple comment/question

before I really began using the rosary, asking the saints intercession, haveing crucifixs in my cubical, etc, my devotion to god was, well, OK at best…

Its funny, the moment I started using these items, I have found my devotion to God increases exponentially, Whats more, the devotion i feel goes beyond when I am just praying the rosary and /or looking at a cross.

Before, I would only really feel that ‘devotion’ when i am in random intermitton, but deep prayer.
Now I have that same feeling of devotion to Christ even when I am not activily praying.

My Question is this, if by using these things is wrong, why has my devotion to Christ increased so much…

If such actions were evil, then why is My faith and devotion to God increasing…

Simple question…

In Christ
I would love to see Newbie1234 answer to this, but we may have to wait 5 days…

I would also add that having a Rosary in one pocket and a Rosary Ring in the other, I am often moved to prayer and reminded to pray.

Prior to having these items, my prayer life really did suck…Satan was winning a great battle…now?..he is in a state of perpetual retreat…
 
Yes I was taught to bow down and worship statues and adore them and look to them for special healing as a Catholic.And I did it many times.
I know what I was taught.
I am grateful that my mom gives me those things.But if she is basing her salvation on a piece of string with a couple of pictures on the ends, I WORRY ABOUT HER SALVATION.
I want to see my mother, my family, my friends and everybody reach the Kingdom of Heaven, but if their faith is relying on a scapular or Mary or the saints, they are not going to get there.
Salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone!
No Relic or Rosary or Scapular or Holy Water or statue will get anyone into Heaven. That is my point!
**And your point IS the teaching of the Catholic Church. We agree with you. **

It is always easier to think that EVERYONE thought and did what you did. You were guilty of Idol worship. That sin burns and hurts and you wish others to not be where you were.

And you worry about your mom. It is from her you learned these things and so she must worship idols also. And you say you know what you were taught so I tend to believe you.

The problem is, outward appearances can be decieving. When does it go from good and right to superstition? That is only something that God can see. Clearly you know what went on in your own heart. You worshipped idols and were caught up in sacramentals as if they were rabbits feet. You were superstitious about it thinking the object in and of itself separate from God somehow brought the power instead of knowing that all the Glory and honor go to God, and the object helped one to focus on God and your faith in Him.

But I will tell you this, you are right to be concerned about your mother. Since you did not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church, it is entirely possible that your mother didn’t either is going to hell for idol worship.

But the easiest way to get a Catholic truly saved is not to pull them out of the Catholic Church, but to teach them what the Catholic Church truly teaches.

You have called many of us here “experts” who are “taught” the right answers. We are just normal people like you. MANY of us had misunderstandings about what the Church taught.

Guess what we found out?

“The Catholic Church worships Mary” Well, if someone does, they are not supposed to.

The list goes on and on.

The “experts” here are telling you, you have misunderstood Catholic teachings. Catholics are not supposed to worship idols and as you say yourself, bowing in and of itself is not worship. I know it is hard for you to think that it might just be you, or you and your family, but most Catholics do not bow down and idol worship when they kneel before a statue.

If you truly love your mom and worry about her, start learning the Official teachings of the Catholic Church so you can lead you mom to true worship that is possible within the Catholic Church instead of trying to pull her out of it.

Three possible outcomes. Nothing will change. Your mom will not believe you, she really does worship idols and will go to hell. But that is where you believe she is right now.

Your mom will realize her errors, learn the true teachings of the Catholic church and become truly saved.

You will realize you misunderstood your mom and wrongly judged her heart and misunderstood what she tried to teach you. This one will probably be the hardest if it happens because then you have to accept that the fault lies with you and only you.

2 out of 3 scenarios in which there is a good outcome, one that is very humbling but still very good.

Why not take the time to become an “expert” yourself and explain the true teachings of the Catholic Church to your mom, not the superstitious nonsense that you believe she taught you and others mistakenly think. Learn the TRUE teachings of the Catholic Church. Harder than just pulling her out of the Catholic Church. Talk about having to rely on the Holy Spirit to lead you since you know what your pastor thinks about the Catholic Church.

You truly have nothing to lose by studying what the real teachings of the Catholic Church are and you may just be able to help lead you mom to true and lasting worship to God alone WITHIN the Catholic Church.
There is a series of excellent FREE Catholic courses that you can get one at a time from The Catholic Home Study Service. Pick one and get the facts and decide for yourself. They are not just for Catholics, but for anyone who wants to know what we believe and they are very very good. (I know…I’ve completed them all, and still have all my stuff so if you have questions you can contact me and I’ll try to help ya out with it.)
The only thing you have to lose are your mom’s mistaken idea of what the Catholic Church teaches, and possibly, everything to gain, your mom’s salvation:gopray2: .

God Bless,
Maria
 
I agree with Marie that your Mom i am guessing is getting up there in age and she will tend to start forgetting many things. If she remembers the prayers of the rosary it is because it is deep down in her spirit maybe the only words she will remember before she goes onto heaven. I think you can be thankful for this but don’t miss the oportunity to pray this with her because you will regret it and will miss the chance as is what will make the devil happy. My Mom had triple by-pass two years ago and we got her back. She wasn’t sure why she couldn’t go now she is 85. We had just finished reading there is purpose for everyone together but I had not come back to the faith yet. And then I did and I was taught the rosary and re-taught my Mom and we did it together. so there was a purpose in God’s plan. Please don’t miss this Newbi because after she is gone you won’t be hearing her anymore and you will be doing your own traditions and can ditch everything you have been taught. But you won’t have her prayers ither as I learned all those rosary’s were for me and I hope you find some one that you care so much about that you will be on your knees for so long looking at what Jesus did for us and pray. I also hope you took your laptop. dessert
 
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