Crucifix

[lak611]

I grew up in the faith and I was never taught any such garbage. Do any of you other cradle Catholics recall any such foolishness?

I never heard of anything that silly; even as a child, I knew that I was praying to Jesus, not to the object of the crucifix.

 

[water]

As a cradle Catholic all my life, I was never taught by my parents to worship statues or images. They told me the images of the saints are a mere representation of men and women who lived by good Christian example, and many of them died for their faith in Christ.

My mom taught me that we must imitate the saints because the love Jesus Christ, and were willing to die for him. None of my parents taught me to worship statues, or even the crucifix.

My mom and loved ones from churches never taught me that either. She told me to pray with the Rosary with her and to read Bible. When I was really young, she took me to early mass in the morning - around 5:30am. As a kid, I just came but got no clue what the Mass was all about…but again - worshiping Statue has never been taught.

 

[Mannyfit75]

My mom and loved ones from churches never taught me that either. She told me to pray with the Rosary with her and to read Bible. When I was really young, she took me to early mass in the morning - around 5:30am. As a kid, I just came but got no clue what the Mass was all about…but again - worshiping Statue has never been taught.

During my college years, my sister taught me to pray the Angelus Prayer to be said at noon. I just started it up again.

 

[Sixtus]

Church Militant

I grew up in the faith and I was never taught any such garbage. Do any of you other cradle Catholics recall any such foolishness?

Actually I grew up in the faith and I was taught by the nuns that to worship statues, bow down to them or give them honour which is due to God alone, is sinful

I can confidently say that neither our priests, nuns, Sunday school teachers, or parents ever suggested we worship statues.

As for ‘healing’ I too detect ever such a faint smell of something that would be better well dug into my pototo bed

 

[newbie1234]

No… you know what you think you were taught. (And we know only what you allege. The possibility exists that your are (a) expressing your own misunderstandings, or (b) intentionally lying about it.) That sounds like a load of anti-Catholic rubbish, especially in view of your repeated allegations that have been soundly refuted by the facts. The fact that you have been shown the errors and persist certainly makes it appear (to me at least) that you are being willfully obtuse.

I grew up in the faith and I was never taught any such garbage. Do any of you other cradle Catholics recall any such foolishness?

I carried around a scapular for ten years with the false impression that if I died with it around my neck it would keep me out of hell. My aunt went from NY to medugorge TWICE because she thought something miraculous was going on over there. I carried rosaries around for years. With every new vehicle I purchased my mother would make me a little packet.In the packet was rice, salt, a coin, and a small medallion of Mary. This packet was supposed to protect the vehicle. I buried statues of St Joseph upside down in the ground every time I wanted to sell a house.I did it a total of four times.
I could go on.
1.Don’t tell me what I was taught.
(Edited by Moderator)

 

[Sixtus]

Nannyfit wrote:

The prayer Before the Crucifix goes like this;

Look down upon me, O good, and gentle Jesus, while before your face, I humbly kneel, and with burning soul pray and beseech You to fix deep in my heart lively of faith, hope, and charity, true contrition for my sins, and a firm purpose of amandment; while I contemplate with great love and tender pity Your five wounds, pondering over them within me, calling to mind the words which David Your prophet said of You, my good Jesus, “They have pierced my hand and my feet, they have numbered my bones.”

I too along with lots of Catholics have paid that honour to our Blessed Saviour.

When you have [what the protestants call ‘an image’] and it is as graphic as you describe, then it is a very salutary reminder what price human redemption and I have come to realise from that meditation what we come at a price…and that price is a very high one

 

[Church_Militant]

I carried around a scapular for ten years with the false impression that if I died with it around my neck it would keep me out of hell. My aunt went from NY to medugorge TWICE because she thought something miraculous was going on over there. I carried rosaries around for years. With every new vehicle I purchased my mother would make me a little packet.In the packet was rice, salt, a coin, and a small medallion of Mary. This packet was supposed to protect the vehicle. I buried statues of St Joseph upside down in the ground every time I wanted to sell a house.I did it a total of four times.
I could go on.
1.Don’t tell me what I was taught.
(Edited by Moderator)

I don’t really care what misguided beliefs you supposedly held Newb. I’m saying that it is not something that is taught in the church and that you either misunderstood, (Especially in view of this latest post. It’s not the church’s fault that you erred in some devotions. Most of that is not stuff that is required by the church anyway, and your expressed beliefs about them shows that you were (at least) ill informed concerning them and because we have no way to know if what you say is true, (and anti-Catholics do have a consistent history of lying about the Catholic Church), my point is that we cannot know for sure. (You are so easily offended…what’s up with that? I soak up all the stuff you say and then you get ticked when I point this out. Ease up…)

You seem to expect us to accept everything that you say about the faith as factual when my Catholic brothers and sisters and I have already shown you that it’s simply not true. Why you can’t seem to accept that is beyond me.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I carried around a scapular for ten years with the false impression that if I died with it around my neck it would keep me out of hell. My aunt went from NY to medugorge TWICE because she thought something miraculous was going on over there. I carried rosaries around for years. With every new vehicle I purchased my mother would make me a little packet.In the packet was rice, salt, a coin, and a small medallion of Mary. This packet was supposed to protect the vehicle. I buried statues of St Joseph upside down in the ground every time I wanted to sell a house.I did it a total of four times.
I could go on.
1.Don’t tell me what I was taught.
(Edited by Moderator)

Medjorje is not an approve apparition by the Church. I think you are truly mislead and misinformed about Catholicism. You have told us your story before why you left. We still think you are mislead.

 

[Church_Militant]

Nannyfit wrote:

I too along with lots of Catholics have paid that honour to our Blessed Saviour.

When you have [what the protestants call ‘an image’] and it is as graphic as you describe, then it is a very salutary reminder what price human redemption and I have come to realise from that meditation what we come at a price…and that price is a very high one

Man, I love that prayer! And n-Cs have nothing to even remotely compare to it.

 

[Church_Militant]

Medjorje is not an approve apparition by the Church. I think you are truly mislead and misinformed about Catholicism. You have told us your story before why you left. We still think you are mislead.

 

[LilyM]

Then quite obviously you were taught error.

Newbie, seriously. I am a cradle catholic as well and I was never taught anything remotely superstitious let alone idolatrous regarding statues or blessed items.

You are well aware of what the official teaching of the Church is regarding statues and images, which you’ve been pointed to numerous times. Either you were taught error or you were given correct teaching but misunderstood it. One or the other.

Now there are only two possible reasons for you to persist in saying what you’ve been saying about your past experience as a Catholic in the face of what we’ve told you.

Either

1. you believe that we are lying or mistaken about what our official teaching and unofficial practice is.

If we’re lying, then the ‘gods’ of those false idols we worship would be really upset at us, since we’ve denied that we worship them.

If we’re mistaken about what Catholic teaching and practice is, then so are 90% of Catholics, including the Pope himself, because that’s how many would deny doing or thinking any of the things you’ve attributed to us.

1. you’re generalising from your experience of those sinfully idolatrous people of your acquaintance to make judgements about the Catholic Church as a whole. In which case you’re woefully ignorant and refusing to listen to those who, being practicing Catholics, are less ignorant about Catholicism than you who’ve apparently been away from the faith for some time.

Either way cease and desist!

 

[Mannyfit75]

I have no hope in newbie except that God will only change his confused heart about what the Catholic Church actually and truly teaches.

 

[newbie1234]

I don’t really care what misguided beliefs you supposedly held Newb. I’m saying that it is not something that is taught in the church and that you either misunderstood, (Especially in view of this latest post. It’s not the church’s fault that you erred in some devotions. Most of that is not stuff that is required by the church anyway, and your expressed beliefs about them shows that you were (at least) ill informed concerning them and because we have no way to know if what you say is true, (and anti-Catholics do have a consistent history of lying about the Catholic Church), my point is that we cannot know for sure. (You are so easily offended…what’s up with that? I soak up all the stuff you say and then you get ticked when I point this out. Ease up…)

You seem to expect us to accept everything that you say about the faith as factual when my Catholic brothers and sisters and I have already shown you that it’s simply not true. Why you can’t seem to accept that is beyond me.

Do you know what a scapular is?
Next time you go to a church store, look at what it says on one of the rectangular pictures. The last one I looked at was in December. It said’ Wearing this will keep you out of eternal fire.’ There was a picture of Mary with outstreched arms on one side. There was a picture of a heart on the other side. Sacred Heart of Jesus. Somehow Jesus’ heart offers salvation and not His death on the cross.
Look it up online I’m not lying.
I think I still have one of those packets that my mother made for me with the medallion of Mary.
Are you going to make me take a picture of it.
Furthermore, my loving mother is very religious. She attends mass daily and is a eucharistic minister.
My too lovely aunts also attend mass daily.
All three women have shrines in their homes where they light candles.The shrines are filled with various statues of Mary and other saints.

 

[newbie1234]

I have no hope in newbie except that God will only change his confused heart about what the Catholic Church actually and truly teaches.

I do tell the people that taught me these things that they are not biblically based. And they give the same explanation you all give. But Manny I KNOW YOU CARRY A SCAPULAR.
Could you please tell us why?

 

[Church_Militant]

Do you know what a scapular is?

Sure do…i think I have two sitting on my bookcase which I don’t wear because I wear the Miraculous Medal because I’m a consecrated knight of the Immaculata. You want one? Send me an address and it’ll go out in the mail tomorrow!

Next time you go to a church store, look at what it says on one of the rectangular pictures. The last one I looked at was in December. It said’ Wearing this will keep you out of eternal fire.’ There was a picture of Mary with outstretched arms on one side. There was a picture of a heart on the other side. Sacred Heart of Jesus. Somehow Jesus’ heart offers salvation and not His death on the cross.

Mine don’t say that and that is not what they are supposed to say. I know what the scapular represents and it is like wearing a symbol of the whole armor of God, so that is quite Biblical. If someone wore one of them and it helped to inspire him to live the kind of life that he should then in that respect, (which is what that devotion intends!) then in a certain sense it could indeed be said that it might contribute to keeping that person out of hell. In and of itself…it’s just a ribbon with 2 pieces of wool with pictures on it.

Look it up online I’m not lying.

Never said you were…I said you could be, there’s a big difference.

I think I still have one of those packets that my mother made for me with the medallion of Mary.

Nope…don’t really care…you should be grateful that your mom is so devoted as to even offer something like that. Sounds like she intercedes for your safety when traveling in your car. What’s wrong with that.

Are you going to make me take a picture of it.

Furthermore, my loving mother is very religious. She attends mass daily and is a Eucharistic minister.
My too lovely aunts also attend mass daily.
All three women have shrines in their homes where they light candles.The shrines are filled with various statues of Mary and other saints.

I think that is incredibly cool and would love to meet all three of them. Maybe we’d pray a Divine Mercy Chaplet for you while we were together.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I do tell the people that taught me these things that they are not biblically based. And they give the same explanation you all give. But Manny I KNOW YOU CARRY A SCAPULAR.
Could you please tell us why?

I carry it because the Scapular reminds me that when I die, that I am not alone. God will be waiting for me on the other side, and his saints.

He will judge me on my deeds, and if I bear good fruit I will be welcome into the Kingdom of Heaven. If my fruit is not as fruit but it merits enough not to be condemn, I would be going to purgatory so my venial sins would be cleanse.

I leave it to God’s own judgment to decide where I am to go when I pass this life.

Second, when it comes to my spiritual life. I pray the Rosary, the Divine Chaplet, and other good Catholic Prayers, which I find very fruitful for my spiritual growth.

 

[LilyM]

I do tell the people that taught me these things that they are not biblically based. And they give the same explanation you all give. But Manny I KNOW YOU CARRY A SCAPULAR.
Could you please tell us why?

newbie, I know that every scapular that’s sold out there comes with an information leaflet with it. And I also know how that leaflet reads (I had a scapular as a child, don’t wear one any more).

It always says what is on this webpage of the Carmelites, whose scapular it is :

carmelnet.org/scapular/rules/rules.htm

Read very carefully the third paragraph down. It says, in exactly so many words:

"The Carmelite Scapular is not:

a magical charm to protect you
an automatic guarantee of salvation
an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life"

Obviously

a) you didn’t receive one of these leaflets with your scapular (which is the fault of whoever gave it to you),

b) didn’t read it (which is your own fault),

c) or read it and didn’t understand that ‘not a magical charm’ MEANS ‘not a magical charm’ and that ‘not an automatic guarantee of salvation’ MEANS ‘not an automatic guarantee of salvation’

in any event ALL come with a leaflet and EVERY one of the many leaflets I’ve seen has that same paragraph on it.

I do really hope you respond to this post. I spend a lot of time and effort to put actual fact and logical argument into my posts, it’s incredibly rude of you not to respond.

 

[newbie1234]

Sure do…i think I have two sitting on my bookcase which I don’t wear because I wear the Miraculous Medal because I’m a consecrated knight of the Immaculata. You want one? Send me an address and it’ll go out in the mail tomorrow!Mine don’t say that and that is not what they are supposed to say. I know what the scapular represents and it is like wearing a symbol of the whole armor of God, so that is quite Biblical. If someone wore one of them and it helped to inspire him to live the kind of life that he should then in that respect, (which is what that devotion intends!) then in a certain sense it could indeed be said that it might contribute to keeping that person out of hell. In and of itself…it’s just a ribbon with 2 pieces of wool with pictures on it.Never said you were…I said you could be, there’s a big difference.Nope…don’t really care…you should be grateful that your mom is so devoted as to even offer something like that. Sounds like she intercedes for your safety when traveling in your car. What’s wrong with that. I think that is incredibly cool and would love to meet all three of them. Maybe we’d pray a Divine Mercy Chaplet for you while we were together.

I am grateful that my mom gives me those things.But if she is basing her salvation on a piece of string with a couple of pictures on the ends, I WORRY ABOUT HER SALVATION.
I want to see my mother, my family, my friends and everybody reach the Kingdom of Heaven, but if their faith is relying on a scapular or Mary or the saints, they are not going to get there.
Salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone!
No Relic or Rosary or Scapular or Holy Water or statue will get anyone into Heaven. That is my point!

 

[lak611]

newbie, I know that every scapular that’s sold out there comes with an information leaflet with it. And I also know how that leaflet reads (I had a scapular as a child, don’t wear one any more).

It always says what is on this webpage of the Carmelites, whose scapular it is :

carmelnet.org/scapular/rules/rules.htm

Read very carefully the third paragraph down. It says, in exactly so many words:

"The Carmelite Scapular is not:

a magical charm to protect you
an automatic guarantee of salvation
an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life"

Obviously

a) you didn’t receive one of these leaflets with your scapular (which is the fault of whoever gave it to you),

b) didn’t read it (which is your own fault),

c) or read it and didn’t understand that ‘not a magical charm’ MEANS ‘not a magical charm’ and that ‘not an automatic guarantee of salvation’ MEANS ‘not an automatic guarantee of salvation’

in any event ALL come with a leaflet and EVERY one of the many leaflets I’ve seen has that same paragraph on it.

I do really hope you respond to this post. I spend a lot of time and effort to put actual fact and logical argument into my posts, it’s incredibly rude of you not to respond.

Mine was from a Catholic bookstore, not online; but I still got a leaflet with mine.

 

[LilyM]

Mine was from a Catholic bookstore, not online; but I still got a leaflet with mine.

And it said the bit about it not being a magical charm or a guarantee of salvation? I’ll look like an idiot if it didn’t, of course