Crucifix

[newbie1234]

When I am performing my employers business, I am required to go into court.

If a hearing is in session, it is protocol to bow to the Bench as a mark of respect for their authority.

That is EXACTLY THE SAME CRITERIA that I use when I bow to the Cross and the Tabernacle.

Should I tell my employers that I can no longer show my respect to the Judiciary and Law of England as the Protestants say it is idolatory?

If I do that, they will say 'so if the Protestants object, why do they also bow to the Bench when they walk into court after a session has started?

I would have to reply something in the veign of 'well I suppose because the Bench and English Law which they represent, are not Catholic.

This is getting awefully complicated. Can someone help me out please

Bowing to a judge or the Queen of England is different than bowing to an inanimate idol.Bowing to graven images is sinful according to ex20:5

 

[newbie1234]

My sources come straight from the Talmud, the Tradition of the Jewish People, binding almost as much as the Traditions of the Catholic Church to their faith.

When I said “we find agreement” I meant that we (the readers) should find agreement between newbie and the average Orthodox Jewish scholar.

My purpose in writing this was to illustrate that newbie’s logical principles would lead to Judaism. To accept that the crucifix is an idol because it is a physical image of God, who is spiritual, is to deny that God is, was, or could be physical.

Newbie’s logic leads not to Christianity, but to modern Judaism.

I don’t recall ever saying the crucifix was an idol. In fact I wear a cross around my neck. And I have crosses in every room of my house.

 

[Unitas]

I wear a cross around my neck. And I have crosses in every room of my house.

Why?

 

[newbie1234]

Why?

Jesus is my Savior.
The Cross around my neck shows other people that I am a Christian.
The Crosses around the house remind others that my faith is the most important thing in my life.
I also have a mazuza on my doorpost and a plaque quoting Josh24:15 on my front door.

 

[I_Leatherman]

Bowing to a judge or the Queen of England is different than bowing to an inanimate idol.Bowing to graven images is sinful according to ex20:5

You must have a short memory. Has no-one told you Catholicism does not bow to idols?

 

[MariaG]

Bowing to a judge or the Queen of England is different than bowing to an inanimate idol.Bowing to graven images is sinful according to ex20:5

You are being very inconsistent in your definition. It keeps changing. It appears that it keeps changing in order to make sure whatever it is Catholic Christians do, it makes it idol worship.

It is wrong to bow before anything. Well bowing before a bed is okay, now it is okay to bow to a Queen of England. Why?because none of those things are idols that are worshipped.

Yet when we tell you statues of Mary are not idols and are not worshipped you still insist it is wrong and we are guilty of idol worship. Your prejudice is becoming more and more visible.

So why again exactly is it wrong to kneel before a statue? Since one can kneel before a bed, one can kneel or bow before a queen, bowing in and of itself is not wrong.

It becomes wrong when it becomes worship correct? And I tell you again, Catholic Christians do not worship statues and nor pray to them in the manner you believe.

Who knows, maybe you can actually say, “I see I was mistaken. I see that I really don’t think bowing in and of itself is wrong since clearly I have made exceptions to this, but did not realize. Since Catholics claim not to worship statues, kneeling or bowing before them must not be idol worship and since I cannot judge their hearts, I have to take their word for it.”

Also just a possible that you used to be Catholic but were ignorant of your own faith and maybe you were guilty of Idol worship. It is always easier to believe all were doing something wrong than to believe that you were the only one.

Is that the case with you? Did you used to be Catholic and worship idols when Catholic?

 

[dessert]

Jesus is my Savior.
The Cross around my neck shows other people that I am a Christian.
The Crosses around the house remind others that my faith is the most important thing in my life.
I also have a mazuza on my doorpost and a plaque quoting Josh24:15 on my front door.

Newbie, have you had any of these blessed by a holy priest?
I have had a rosary blessed
and a cross and have had instances when someone just touched it and as my priest said received a blessing and a change. And he said that anyone just gaze upon the cross be touched and quickened and everything he said has happened.
I’m glad to hear your faith is most important and go to a priest and have anything in your house blessed especially pertaining to the cross. I sprinkled holy water on my husbands computer chair one day and he didn’t know and he had a wonderful change of heart that day.
Just pray as you touch your cross say the Lord’s prayer you have a good witness. dessert

 

[VociMike]

Bowing to a judge or the Queen of England is different than bowing to an inanimate idol.Bowing to graven images is sinful according to ex20:5

Then so is making any likeness of any thing in heaven, on earth, under the earth or in the sea. Until you deal with that, you simply have no credibility in quoting Exodus.

 

[Unitas]

Jesus is my Savior.
The Cross around my neck shows other people that I am a Christian.
The Crosses around the house remind others that my faith is the most important thing in my life.
I also have a mazuza on my doorpost and a plaque quoting Josh24:15 on my front door.

None of it is for yourself?

I take it you have the crosses in your house because the cross reminds you and others of Christ, right?

It’s to that “reminder,” the memory of which comes to our mind when looking at such things to which we bow. Such Holy people deserve respect.

How are the crosses you wear and display around your house any different than a statue or a portrait? They serve the same purpose.

 

[Unitas]

… shows other people that…remind others that…

It’s interesting you put up those things to inspire thoughts in others, when Catholics have the same in their homes to inspire thoughts in themselves.

Why not just show them your faith by works instead?

 

[newbie1234]

It’s interesting you put up those things to inspire thoughts in others, when Catholics have the same in their homes to inspire thoughts in themselves.

Why not just show them your faith by works instead?

I do that too.

 

[newbie1234]

None of it is for yourself?

I take it you have the crosses in your house because the cross reminds you and others of Christ, right?

It’s to that “reminder,” the memory of which comes to our mind when looking at such things to which we bow. Such Holy people deserve respect.

How are the crosses you wear and display around your house any different than a statue or a portrait? They serve the same purpose.

The commandment says you shall not bow down to graven images. I am not bowing down to the crosses in my house.

 

[newbie1234]

Then so is making any likeness of any thing in heaven, on earth, under the earth or in the sea. Until you deal with that, you simply have no credibility in quoting Exodus.

The crosses are two pieces of wood that are crossed. I don’t think it is a graven image. But even if it is,I am not bowing down to them.

 

[newbie1234]

Newbie, have you had any of these blessed by a holy priest?
I have had a rosary blessed
and a cross and have had instances when someone just touched it and as my priest said received a blessing and a change. And he said that anyone just gaze upon the cross be touched and quickened and everything he said has happened.
I’m glad to hear your faith is most important and go to a priest and have anything in your house blessed especially pertaining to the cross. I sprinkled holy water on my husbands computer chair one day and he didn’t know and he had a wonderful change of heart that day.
Just pray as you touch your cross say the Lord’s prayer you have a good witness. dessert

I don’t know if they have been blessed. I bought a few of them in Israel.Maybe they were blessed. I don’t know how that would make them any different though.

 

[newbie1234]

You are being very inconsistent in your definition. It keeps changing. It appears that it keeps changing in order to make sure whatever it is Catholic Christians do, it makes it idol worship.

It is wrong to bow before anything. Well bowing before a bed is okay, now it is okay to bow to a Queen of England. Why?because none of those things are idols that are worshipped.

Yet when we tell you statues of Mary are not idols and are not worshipped you still insist it is wrong and we are guilty of idol worship. Your prejudice is becoming more and more visible.

So why again exactly is it wrong to kneel before a statue? Since one can kneel before a bed, one can kneel or bow before a queen, bowing in and of itself is not wrong.

It becomes wrong when it becomes worship correct? And I tell you again, Catholic Christians do not worship statues and nor pray to them in the manner you believe.

Who knows, maybe you can actually say, “I see I was mistaken. I see that I really don’t think bowing in and of itself is wrong since clearly I have made exceptions to this, but did not realize. Since Catholics claim not to worship statues, kneeling or bowing before them must not be idol worship and since I cannot judge their hearts, I have to take their word for it.”

Also just a possible that you used to be Catholic but were ignorant of your own faith and maybe you were guilty of Idol worship. It is always easier to believe all were doing something wrong than to believe that you were the only one.

Is that the case with you? Did you used to be Catholic and worship idols when Catholic?

Yes I was taught to bow down and worship statues and adore them and look to them for special healing as a Catholic.And I did it many times.
I know what I was taught.

 

[water]

None of it is for yourself?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Unitas]

Yes I was taught to bow down and worship statues and adore them and look to them for special healing as a Catholic.And I did it many times.
I know what I was taught.

Then quite obviously you were taught error.

 

[Sixtus]

Yes I was taught to bow down and worship statues and adore them and look to them for special healing as a Catholic.And I did it many times.
I know what I was taught.

Then quite obviously you were taught error.

Or more likely, that is what you thought you were taught which need not be what you were actually taught.

My guess is that this occured when you were very young yes?

Who knows what interprations a child puts on what they are told by an adult

Otherwise, I suggest you go back to your informer and re-inform them

 

[Church_Militant]

Yes I was taught to bow down and worship statues and adore them and look to them for special healing as a Catholic.And I did it many times.
I know what I was taught.

No… you know what you think you were taught. (And we know only what you allege. The possibility exists that your are (a) expressing your own misunderstandings, or (b) intentionally lying about it.) That sounds like a load of anti-Catholic rubbish, especially in view of your repeated allegations that have been soundly refuted by the facts. The fact that you have been shown the errors and persist certainly makes it appear (to me at least) that you are being willfully obtuse.

I grew up in the faith and I was never taught any such garbage. Do any of you other cradle Catholics recall any such foolishness?

 

[Mannyfit75]

No… you know what you think you were taught. (And we know only what you allege. The possibility exists that your are (a) expressing your own misunderstandings, or (b) intentionally lying about it.) That sounds like a load of anti-Catholic rubbish, especially in view of your repeated allegations that have been soundly refuted by the facts. The fact that you have been shown the errors and persist certainly makes it appear (to me at least) that you are being willfully obtuse.

I grew up in the faith and I was never taught any such garbage. Do any of you other cradle Catholics recall any such foolishness?

As a cradle Catholic all my life, I was never taught by my parents to worship statues or images. They told me the images of the saints are a mere representation of men and women who lived by good Christian example, and many of them died for their faith in Christ.

My mom taught me that we must imitate the saints because the love Jesus Christ, and were willing to die for him. None of my parents taught me to worship statues, or even the crucifix.

In addition, when my family pray the Station of the Cross, we recall into mind the Passion of Christ, and how he died.

The prayer Before the Crucifix goes like this;

Look down upon me, O good, and gentle Jesus, while before your face, I humbly kneel, and with burning soul pray and beseech You to fix deep in my heart lively of faith, hope, and charity, true contrition for my sins, and a firm purpose of amandment; while I contemplate with great love and tender pity Your five wounds, pondering over them within me, calling to mind the words which David Your prophet said of You, my good Jesus, "They have pierced my hand and my feet, they have numbered my bones."

This prayer is directly to Jesus not the crucifix.