Crusades, Inquisition, Jews

  • Thread starter Thread starter J1Priest
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ASimpleSinner said:
Interestingly, the very same website - the Jewish Virtual Library - offers these three counter-point articles…

How to Manufacture a Legend:
The Controversy over the Alleged Silence
of Pope Pius XII in World War II
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef1.html

A Question of Judgment: Pius XII & the Jews
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef2.html

860,000 Lives Saved - The Truth About Pius XII and the Jews
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef2.html
Click to expand...
And the first directs people to the site I cited. As well as this, yours is sourced as The Catholic League. So is the second. And the third. Hmm , a Catholic organisation supporting the Pope!
🤷
That’s the problem with libraries, even virtual ones, they often have books giving several different sides. Yours, one by “The Catholic League” and mine by a Jew.
 
In 1963, Rolf Hochhuth’s controversial drama Der Stellvertreter. Ein christliches Trauerspiel (The Deputy, a Christian tragedy, released in English in 1964) portrayed Pope Pius XII as a hypocrite who remained silent about the Holocaust. Books such as Dr. Joseph Lichten’s A Question of Judgment (1963), written in response to The Deputy, defended Pius XII’s actions during the war. Lichten labelled any criticism of the pope’s actions during World War II as “a stupefying paradox” and said, “no one who reads the record of Pius XII’s actions on behalf of Jews can subscribe to Hochhuth’s accusation.”[117] Critical scholarly works like Guenther Lewy’s The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany (1964) also followed the publication of The Deputy. In 2002 the play was adapted into the film Amen.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII

Thus at the same time as ASimpleSinner’s champion writing, Guenther Lewy wrote one critical of the Vatican

However in the interests of balance, this article shows that there was some opposition…
In 1937 Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Mit brennender Sorge condemning Nazi ideology, notably the Gleichschaltung policy directed against religious influence upon education, as well as Nazi racism and antisemitism. The encyclical Humani Generis Unitas however was never published. The massive Catholic opposition to the euthanasia programs led them to be quietly ended in August 28, 1941, (according to Spielvogel pp. 257-258) but the German Catholics only at some occasions actively and openly protested Nazi anti-Semitism in any comparable way, except for several bishops and priests like bishop Clemens von Galen of Münster; this might have been due to the restrictions imposed upon the small, remaining Catholic press by the Nazi government after the 1941 debacle about euthanasia.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_religion#Catholicism
 
Montalban said:
And the first directs people to the site I cited. As well as this, yours is sourced as The Catholic League. So is the second. And the third. Hmm , a Catholic organisation supporting the Pope!
🤷
That’s the problem with libraries, even virtual ones, they often have books giving several different sides. Yours, one by “The Catholic League” and mine by a Jew.
Click to expand...
So I guess I am at a loss as to what the resolution is, if there is one.

The Pro-PXII is dismissed for being Catholic. (Am I being paranoid when I think or suspect this it should be dismissed or qualified perhaps because you have suspicion that the CC is so insidious, its members cannot write about it because “well of course THEY would say THAT!”…?)

At the same time or by the same token I suppose the Anti-PXII arguments could then be called into question as being possesed of a bias.

So being at an impasse I guess I am wondering, at the end of the day - even if I were to concede Ven. PXII was negligent, that he could have done more, where does that leave us?
 
It seems to me that the type of anti-Catholicism we expereince here on this formum, is but a microcosm of what is happening daily. In that light, I think its fitting to bring a recent, very recent, anti-Catholic action by a high-ranking Evangelical official to your attention.

I just don’t think its fair to keep bringing up the past as a way to distract from what is happening now. Especially when the historical facts have grown to mytholological proportions.

I think Catholics take very seriously our lessons learned. Outside of my impatience at times, it seems to me that my Catholic brothers & sisters bend over backwards to extend the olive branch to Christians who decide to live apart from the Church.

Anyway, many of you may have already seen this news. And I might be completely wrong for posting it here. But given the way this conversation has gone, I still feel its appropriate. Criticisms will be humbly accepted.

Posted from Deal W Hudson’s site.
dealwhudson.typepad.com/deal_w_hudson/2007/07/huckabee-suppor.html

Huckabee Supporters Spread Anti-Catholic Message in Iowa

“Huckabee is an evangelical. He has not learned how to speak to evangelicals; i.e. Bush 41 & 43. He is one of us. I know Senator Brownback converted to Roman Catholicism in 2002. Frankly, as a recovering Catholic myself, that is all I need to know about his discernment when compared to the Governor’s. I don’t if this fact is widely known among evangelicals who are supporting Brownback. [sic.]”
 
J1Priest said:
When discussin the WoB, Protestants tend to point to the Crusades, Inquisition, and the Jews (the Church “not stopping the holocaust” kind of stuff) as the sins of the Whore and such.

What should one do in such case?

Thnx!
God bless!
Click to expand...
Crusades - muslims conquered our Holy Land and christians wanted to set it free. There’s no reason for us to apologise, muslims should apoligise.
Inquisition - legends made up by protestants and atheists. Read about it and you’ll be surprised.
Jews - CC did a lot to help them and they have absolutely no right to complain. Pius XII released a document in German regarding the nazi issue - Mit brennender Sorge (1937). Ask Jews how, in their opinion, Catholic Church could stop the holocaust. I’d love to hear their answer.

God bless
 
angelusm said:
Crusades - muslims conquered our Holy Land and christians wanted to set it free. There’s no reason for us to apologise, muslims should apoligise.
Inquisition - legends made up by protestants and atheists. Read about it and you’ll be surprised.
Jews - CC did a lot to help them and they have absolutely no right to complain. Pius XII released a document in German regarding the nazi issue - Mit brennender Sorge (1937). Ask Jews how, in their opinion, Catholic Church could stop the holocaust. I’d love to hear their answer.

God bless
Click to expand...
Mit brennender Sorge (1937) was Pius XI.

But we get the idea! 🙂
 
angelusm said:
Crusades - muslims conquered our Holy Land and christians wanted to set it free. There’s no reason for us to apologise, muslims should apoligise.

God bless
Click to expand...
Set it free, what, the Holy sites? Thats nice but was the purpose of the crusades? Was freeing it so Jews could go back there after most were dispersed from the land by the Romans? How were the Jews living in the land of Israel treated during the times of the Crusades?
 
Lev23 said:
Set it free, what, the Holy sites? Thats nice but was the purpose of the crusades? Was freeing it so Jews could go back there after most were dispersed from the land by the Romans? How were the Jews living in the land of Israel treated during the times of the Crusades?
Click to expand...
I thought I read somewhere that the first Crusade resulted in the wholesale slaughter and massacre of Jews, Muslims and even Eastern Christians on July 15, 1099 as the Crusaders entered and took Jerusalem.
 
SFLCatholic said:
It seems to me that the type of anti-Catholicism we expereince here on this formum, is but a microcosm of what is happening daily. In that light, I think its fitting to bring a recent, very recent, anti-Catholic action by a high-ranking Evangelical official to your attention.
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Your reaction to any criticism is ‘typical’ of Catholics on this -]formum/-] (I mean forum)
 
bobzills said:
I thought I read somewhere that the first Crusade resulted in the wholesale slaughter and massacre of Jews, Muslims and even Eastern Christians on July 15, 1099 as the Crusaders entered and took Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
This is true. It is my understanding that the first time the crusaders met the local Christians they thought they were Moslems attacking them (not coming to greet them) and they slaughtered them.
 
Montalban said:
It has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Your reaction to any criticism is ‘typical’ of Catholics on this -]formum/-] (I mean forum)
Click to expand...
Ah I get it, you are making fun of typos.

Very mature.
 
Montalban said:
I get these gibes too. I used the word ‘trialled’ instead of ‘tried’

Hey, and you pointed that out! Ouch! 😉

Matthew 7:3
Click to expand...
Sure did. I pointed out a typo. Didn’t go on to mock and replicate it in late posts.

Matthew 7:3-5
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Click to expand...
Are you throwing this out there to give you carte blanche to do or say anything because you are of the thinking that no Christian - because no one is without sin or error - should call you on it?

That would be a good free pass to behave in any way you please, I suppose.

Why are you so angry?
 
ASimpleSinner said:
Sure did. I pointed out a typo. Didn’t go on to mock and replicate it in late posts.

Matthew 7:3-5
Click to expand...
SO if you point out a mistake I make, it’s not mocking. But if I point out your mistakes, it is!
Ouch!😉
ASimpleSinner said:
Why are you so angry?
Click to expand...
That’s mere projection on your part, as noted above where you react with vitriol when I point out your mistakes. I didn’t do the same, when you pointed out mine

You took much exception to a simple spelling error being pointed out.

You made an issue too, when you felt I hadn’t responded to you in a time you deemed appropriate… noting I’d not replied in something like 10 minutes to your post. You mentioned this on a public forum for all to see. And as I note, you then project that I’m angry!:rolleyes:
 
Montalban said:
SO if you point out a mistake I make, it’s not mocking. But if I point out your mistakes, it is!
Ouch!😉
Click to expand...
Sarcasm noted. But for a truth check…
ASimpleSinner said:
Sure did. I pointed out a typo. Didn’t go on to mock and replicate it in late posts.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I corrected it and it was done. You went on to play around and mock. It didn’t end. It kept going.
Montalban said:
That’s mere projection on your part, as noted above where you react with vitriol when I point out your mistakes. I didn’t do the same, when you pointed out mine

You took much exception to a simple spelling error being pointed out.

You made an issue too, when you felt I hadn’t responded to you in a time you deemed appropriate… noting I’d not replied in something like 10 minutes to your post. You mentioned this on a public forum for all to see. And as I note, you then project that I’m angry!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
No I did not. I pointed out it was a typo, we went on.

I pointed out that you refused to answer something until you established my typo was not an insult (which you proceeded to go on to mock). Then you answered it within 8 min anyway.

I am not projecting anything. Your writing seems angry. I don’t see any evidence of someone looking to defend a position or learn more… You just seem full of vitriol and hate for your ex-church, making special efforts to mock and bait folks here.

But I don’t think there is any discussion here any longer.
 
ASimpleSinner said:
Sarcasm noted. But for a truth check…

Like I said, I corrected it and it was done. You went on to play around and mock. It didn’t end. It kept going.
Click to expand...
Why not. You can’t admit you’re wrong. You are aggreived when the same thing is done to you as you do to others.
ASimpleSinner said:
No I did not. I pointed out it was a typo, we went on.
Click to expand...
Excactly. I didn’t take it bad. But hey, when you goof, don’t let anyone point it out.
ASimpleSinner said:
I am not projecting anything. Your writing seems angry. I don’t see any evidence of someone looking to defend a position or learn more… You just seem full of vitriol and hate for your ex-church, making special efforts to mock and bait folks here.

But I don’t think there is any discussion here any longer.
Click to expand...
You’re right here at least. I made several points and you’ve chosen to ignore them in order to project anger and make point-scoring an issue.

If you hadn’t been so busy doing this you’d have noticed I’ve been in discussion with other posters, raising issues, debating, etc.

You’re welcome to join in.👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top