Crystal Cathedral out of money

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Filii_Dei said:
Still, I am concerned about a Catholic church, no matter how ugly, being unwittingly desecrated by a Protestant group, who may not be fully aware of the liturgical significance and holiness of many of its structures, not least being the tabernacle and altar. Will the church be staffed by CCM and de-consecrated? Or will CCM simply be conducting its services on the premises while it continues to operate as a Catholic church? In that case, will there be any safeguards in place to ensure that the sanctity of the sanctuary remains inviolate?
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St. Callistus Parish was never consecrated. Unlike cathedrals and basilicas, parish churches are not typically consecrated – they are blessed.

The “safeguard” if it was consecrated in CCM’s own reputation.
 
Laetus said:
St. Callistus Parish was never consecrated. Unlike cathedrals and basilicas, parish churches are not typically consecrated – they are blessed.

The “safeguard” if it was consecrated in CCM’s own reputation.
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I apologise if I may seem rather obtus, but in my experience, parishes are typically consecrated, unless their land is mortgaged or leased, in which case they would only be blessed. Thus, it seems appropriate to assume that St. Callistus Catholic Church was likewise consecrated.

Anyway, since my post, we now know that St. Callistus will be folded into the cathedral parish and Crystal Cathedral will take up a full-time presence in their building, rather than a Catholic parish and Protestant community sharing a room together. Therefore, even if St. Callistus was actually consecrated, I think it’s fair to assume that the good bishop will simply decree the deconsecration of the parish, so my concerns have been pretty much addressed. 🙂
 
YoungTradCath said:
Ummmmmmmmmm.

Maybe my reservation above about not wanting the name to be too original were a little premature…

The name of the Crystal Cathedral is now Christ Cathedral.

I appreciate the very strict Catholicity of the name, but that might be a little too average.

Thoughts?

:confused:

rcbo.org/news-and-events/diocesan-news/569-catholic-diocese-of-orange-announces-cathedral-name.html
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Well, Bishop Brown did say:
“We hold Rev. Schuller and his ministry in the highest esteem. It was important that any change of name for the cathedral itself be respectful of its spiritual legacy while accommodating our needs to clearly define this important facility as a Catholic center of worship.”
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Christ Cathedral, Crystal Cathedral. Do you see why now? They use a traditional name to make it “original”. 😛

On a side note, it’s a bit of a slap in the face that the building under Catholic ownership has a stronger Christological name than the Protestants gave it, unlike what many Protestants like to allege about us being less Christ-centered, et cetera. Heck, it’s also a proper cathedral now. 😃
 
Filii_Dei said:
I apologise if I may seem rather obtus, but in my experience, parishes are typically consecrated, unless their land is mortgaged or leased, in which case they would only be blessed. Thus, it seems appropriate to assume that St. Callistus Catholic Church was likewise consecrated.

Anyway, since my post, we now know that St. Callistus will be folded into the cathedral parish and Crystal Cathedral will take up a full-time presence in their building, rather than a Catholic parish and Protestant community sharing a room together. Therefore, even if St. Callistus was actually consecrated, I think it’s fair to assume that the good bishop will simply decree the deconsecration of the parish, so my concerns have been pretty much addressed. 🙂
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That’s simply not true.
 
Filii_Dei said:
Well, Bishop Brown did say:

Christ Cathedral, Crystal Cathedral. Do you see why now? They use a traditional name to make it “original”. 😛

On a side note, it’s a bit of a slap in the face that the building under Catholic ownership has a stronger Christological name than the Protestants gave it, unlike what many Protestants like to allege about us being less Christ-centered, et cetera. Heck, it’s also a proper cathedral now. 😃
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Not until it’s consecrated. 👍
 
Laetus said:
That’s simply not true.
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Then it’s my word against yours. 😛

But I do note that the Catholic Encyclopedia says the following:

newadvent.org/cathen/04276a.htm
By a decree of the Council of Trent (Sess. XXII), Mass should not be celebrated in any place except a consecrated or blessed church. Hence it is the wish of the Church that at least cathedrals and parish churches be solemnly consecrated, and that smaller churches be blessed (Cong. Sac. Rit., 7 Aug., 1875), but any church and public or semi-public oratory may be consecrated (Cong. Sac. Rit., 5 June, 1899).
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newadvent.org/cathen/03041a.htm
Churches and oratories cannot be used for liturgical functions, without having first been consecrated or at least blessed. Cathedral and parish churches ought to be consecrated. However, in case of necessity they may be provisionally blessed (Rit. Rom., tit. viii, c. xxvii).
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In addition, it makes sense to believe that if there is no reason to withhold a full consecration from a parish, then the church should be consecrated, rather than just blessed. Put one and one together, and this is why I assume that St. Callistus Catholic Church has been consecrated, although I admit also it may also be the case that the land of St. Callistus is still under mortgage, but we are merely unaware of it. Please correct me if I am wrong. 🙂
 
SonCatcher said:
That all depends on what you consider to be “proper,” I’m afraid. An earlier thread became quite virulent over just that definition.

I’m sure if you limit your definition to the presence of an altar, tabernacle, cathedra and baptismal font without any presumption on style or location then you won’t be disappointed.

Anyone hoping for Gothic or California Mission style will probably be disappointed.

I think we should just wait until it’s revealed before we debate its styling.
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I’m all for bold architectural statements, when they are in good taste. The Catholic cathedral in Los Angeles makes a bold artistic statement. The Crystal Cathedral is a bold building.
 
I like to consider how Pope Benedict XVI had to personally approve the purchase of Christ Cathedral. Being a man well versed in the arts and given the prominent location of the new cathedral I’m sure he took a personal interest. This was certainly not something he delegated to underlings.

I suspect he already knew of the Christ Cathedral (Pope John Paul II had blessed an architectural model of it decades earlier) and Philip Johnson long before the illustrated dossier arrived from California. Knowing this makes the negative words from Stroik, Alderman and others all the more entertaining.

I truly hope they don’t foul-up the remodel. That will be so critical. If they do it right I have no question that it will one day be granted minor basilica status by the Pontiff.
 
runningdude said:
Here are some unofficial sketches and ideas presented by an architect in “The Living Church”, an Anglo-Catholic publication. It gives a fair representation of the challenges and limitations of converting the space from a preacher-orientated to a liturgically-orientated worship space. If nothing else, it can help inform our prayers for the bishops and architects involved in the project.
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This article reeks of jealousy…
 
Dale_M said:
Thank you for this update. I am glad things are moving along, and wish the best for all persons involved in the upcoming changes.

St. Callistus seems to be a vibrant parish. It holds eight Masses on Sunday, plus two Masses on Saturday evening. Its community speaks Spanish, Vietnamese and English, so Masses on holy day are said in all three languages. I hope losing there church building will not disrupt their lives or faith.

Crystal Cathedral Ministries will likely have a harder time adjusting. They are moving to a smaller, less prestigious building. Recriminations haven’t yet gone away, and will likely continue. I hope their faith in Christ is not lessened, and perhaps that some may choose to remain in the Crystal Cathedral when it becomes a Catholic cathedral.

And I hope the transformation of the Crystal Cathedral goes smoothly, with a minimum of unexpected costs and a minimum of disappointment.
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The amount of Masses and languages are not uncommon in that area. It shouldn’t be a problem.
 
Dale_M said:
Thank you for this update. I am glad things are moving along, and wish the best for all persons involved in the upcoming changes.

St. Callistus seems to be a vibrant parish. It holds eight Masses on Sunday, plus two Masses on Saturday evening. Its community speaks Spanish, Vietnamese and English, so Masses on holy day are said in all three languages. I hope losing there church building will not disrupt their lives or faith.

Crystal Cathedral Ministries will likely have a harder time adjusting. They are moving to a smaller, less prestigious building. Recriminations haven’t yet gone away, and will likely continue. I hope their faith in Christ is not lessened, and perhaps that some may choose to remain in the Crystal Cathedral when it becomes a Catholic cathedral.

And I hope the transformation of the Crystal Cathedral goes smoothly, with a minimum of unexpected costs and a minimum of disappointment.
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The cathedral will certainly host more religious services than at its peak under the Schullers. The only time it might move more “slowly” would be during the times when CCM used to have their Christmas and Easter performances. (Liturgies during those seasons will keep it from being stagnate, however)

I don’t know where the article went, but I think at least one CCM long-time member (perhaps even a board member) expressed that he was considering continuing to worship at the Cathedral when it is finished. I do not know whether he planned to become Catholic.
 
Dale_M said:
Crystal Cathedral Ministries is still occupying the building which the Diocese of Orange bought from them several months ago. Under the terms of the sale, CCM had the right to remain in the premises for up to three years. However, financial difficulties may force an earlier move.
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Why did we even buy that thing.
 
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