Cultural Relativism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Andrew_Larkoski
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
AnAtheist:
Pardon me, but one needs not to be smart to come up with the ten commandments. If we leave out the “whom and how to worship what diety”-part of the commandments, as they do not impose morals, any egoistic human capable of thinking can come up with:
  • Fighting/dishonor parents is bad - (My parents cared for me, and I don’t want to be kicked out of my house by my own.)
  • Stealing is bad - (I want to keep my property.)
  • Murder is bad - (I want to live.)
  • Lieing is bad - (Society doesn’t work without communication, and I want to be sure others tell me the truth.)
  • Coveting is bad, it leads to stealing - (see above)
  • No holidays are bad - (If I do not refrain from working once in a while, life’s not much fun.)
Click to expand...
Let me ask you something. Do you think our behavior should be guided by how it might affect society and other people? Your statements above seem to indicate a “yes” answer. If so, why should you care what happens to society, to other people, especially since you can commit many forms of evil against others without being caught? In the absence of punishment, would you still not kill, like, steal, etc.? The golden rule is not logical to apply (in the absence of earthly punishment) unless you believe in human dignity and/or you believe in eternal punishment.
 
40.png
ktm:
Let me ask you something. Do you think our behavior should be guided by how it might affect society and other people? Your statements above seem to indicate a “yes” answer. If so, why should you care what happens to society, to other people, especially since you can commit many forms of evil against others without being caught? In the absence of punishment, would you still not kill, like, steal, etc.? The golden rule is not logical to apply (in the absence of earthly punishment) unless you believe in human dignity and/or you believe in eternal punishment.
Click to expand...
I believe in human dignity. And I believe in things like honor.
“Believe” is the wrong term, “rever” is perhaps more fitting.

We have invented earthly punishment to deal with crimes, haven’t we? I repeat myself now: The notion of eternal punishment is far more effective, I grant you that. But that doesn’t make it necessarily true.

What I like to point out is, that you can come to a moral code without a diety imposing it.
 
Go back in time an imagine yourself as the “first atheist.” Share with me your thought process on how you might do it.
 
40.png
buffalo:
Yes, that’s what relativism is. It is devoid of truth. Black can be white if I say so. But it can be black to you at the same time. So therefore black = white. We are both OK so long as we allow each other to believe. Now, if I try to correct you and point out that white=white then we will debate, and finally you being unconvinced will agree to disagree. You might even be angry with me for judging you. And so it goes on and on…
Click to expand...
Nice analogy.

If you have white paper and a green light , the paper is green.
No light, it is black.

If have a red paper and red or white light it is red.
If you green light it is black, perhaps brown.

Do me a favour and **define **“murder”. Perhaps we can then dicuss, whether it is wrong or right.
 
AnAtheist said:
@space ghost
@ktm

I am not confused. The posting makes perfect sense.
There are natural laws, and the 10 commandments are obviously not among them. Cultural behaviour is an outcome of social evolution, no wonder there are mutations and changes over time. Free will has nothing to do with it.

Even greater example: Why is it “right” to eat pork to some people and “wrong” to others? Even, if they get their morals from the same book.
Click to expand...

What are the natural laws?

Does cultural behavior that evolves with its mutations and changes violate any of the natural laws? If so, which ones?

Is eating pork in the 10 Commandments or is it a religious discipline?
 
40.png
AnAtheist:
I believe in human dignity. And I believe in things like honor.
“Believe” is the wrong term, “rever” is perhaps more fitting.
Click to expand...
What is the definition of human dignity? What is the definition of honor? Does it vary from person to person, culture to culture?
 
40.png
buffalo:
Go back in time an imagine yourself as the “first atheist.” Share with me your thought process on how you might do it.
Click to expand...
Ok, here it comes:
First I wondered why there are so many religions, all holding solely the absolute truth (now that fits in this thread). They could not possibly all be right, so almost any of them had to be wrong. Doesn’t take much to imagine, what if **all **are wrong?

Then I carefully studied the universe and came to the conclusion, that it works without a god. As there is no evidence for a god, I concluded furthermore, the likelihood of a god is so low, I can fairly dismiss it.

I have yet to encounter something that cannot be explained without divine interference.
 
Atheist,

You may wish to deny God’s existence all you want. We can’t force you to believe in Jesus Christ. But one thing we believers in Jesus Christ our Lord can only assure you, that when the time comes, and you are all alone, and feel neglected, confused, hopeless, and you feel that all the world’s burden is upon you–there is only One that cares for you–His name is JESUS. You can call Him anytime, anywhere you want–and He is ready to respond with open arms. He’s just waiting for you to call Him.

God bless you!

Pio
 
40.png
Monarchy:
I can’t speak for AnAtheist but I am here to correct wrong things people say about Atheism. Much like a catholic might go to a fudamentalist board to combat misconceptions about Mary, etc…

Do I wish to de-convert people? No. I could care less what you believe as long as it doesn’t interfere with my rights…
Click to expand...
And I couldn’t care less what you believe as long as it doesn’t interfere with my rights.

So, I guess we’re at an impass. Since we can’t have it both ways, whose rights will prevail?

That’s the problem with relativism.
 
40.png
AnAtheist:
I have yet to encounter something that cannot be explained without divine interference.
Click to expand...
What about selfless love? The willingness to give oneself up for someone for no apparent gain.
 
I am a B.Sc and a teacher of science. For me studying science has been like the 6th station of the Cross. Wiping the face of Jesus to behold the splendour of God. Science should lead to wonder and awe in God’s presence. This is what I strive to impart to my students. Wonder and awe are very necessary for a life in God.

God Bless,
Fergal
Naas
Ireland
 
40.png
AnAtheist:
Ok, here it comes:
First I wondered why there are so many religions, all holding solely the absolute truth (now that fits in this thread). They could not possibly all be right, so almost any of them had to be wrong. Doesn’t take much to imagine, what if **all **are wrong?

Then I carefully studied the universe and came to the conclusion, that it works without a god. As there is no evidence for a god, I concluded furthermore, the likelihood of a god is so low, I can fairly dismiss it.

I have yet to encounter something that cannot be explained without divine interference.
Click to expand...
Using your color lighting scheme you have altered the playing field. By shining different lights or manipulation you have shown relativism. Now, using sunlight in a pure unmanipulated way white =white; black = black.

Now, when you studied the universe which filter were you using over your eyes. Were you looking through the filter of science and your own limitations? Did you account for the filter of what we cannot see or experience as humans. Did you use ALL your senses?

Try subsituting the filter of science with one of spirituality. Can this show a different picture?

Now - as first atheist - how would you have come up with the items you posted?
 
40.png
buffalo:
Using your color lighting scheme you have altered the playing field. By shining different lights or manipulation you have shown relativism. Now, using sunlight in a pure unmanipulated way white =white; black = black.
Click to expand...
Yes, I did. (The atmosphere manipulates sunlight, that’s why the sky looks blue and the sun yellow.)
Try subsituting the filter of science with one of spirituality. Can this show a different picture?
Click to expand...
Yes it can That picture just doesn’t make that much sense. At least not to me.
Now - as first atheist - how would you have come up with the items you posted?
Click to expand...
What items exactly? Anyway, by learning, by observing, by reasoning and then by judgeing for myself.
 
40.png
AnAtheist:
Yes, I did. (The atmosphere manipulates sunlight, that’s why the sky looks blue and the sun yellow.)
Code: 
Yes it can That picture just doesn't make that much sense. At least not to me.
What items exactly? Anyway, by learning, by observing, by reasoning and then by judgeing for myself.
Click to expand...
You added manipulations other than the natural. So you made white=black through manipiulation or relativism.

Ok. It doesn’t make sense to you. But it is possible that a better understanding could change the outcome.

We were talking about the ten commandments. Start with 4 through 10.
 
40.png
buffalo:
You added manipulations other than the natural. So you made white=black through manipiulation or relativism.

We were talking about the ten commandments. Start with 4 through 10.
Click to expand...
Yes, but morals are not that simple than colours.

Ok, there are certain things that I do not want to happen to me, like to get killed, to get bereft, to get lied at. Since I live in a society it is in my own interest that this society has rules against that behaviour. Thus I have an atheistic reason for 4 of the 7 cc. I include coveting here, as that leads to stealing. Plus protects my wife from other guys.
Humans are monogamous, a rule regarding that seems logical to me.
Some day I will be old and I don’t want my children to turn away from me, let’s make a rule that they honor me.
To get some rest from work once in a while is essential, let’s make a rule that grants me frequent days off.
 
MONARCHY

Do I wish to de-convert people? No. I could care less what you believe as long as it doesn’t interfere with my rights…

Disengenuous, to say the least. You and other atheists have been extremely active at Catholic Answers. So active that one has to wonder why you find all the time you spend here if you could care less what or why we believe.

My own take is that you are searching for God and you have landed in the right place to find Him.
 
40.png
Carl:
MONARCHY

Disengenuous, to say the least. You and other atheists have been extremely active at Catholic Answers. So active that one has to wonder why you find all the time you spend here if you could care less what or why we believe.

My own take is that you are searching for God and you have landed in the right place to find Him.
Click to expand...
Right on. I was getting ready to ask that same question myself. Some athiests post just for the sport of it, others to cast doubt. They have strong scientific arguments that really confuse.

Whatever they are looking to do here they will find faith among us.
 
The ultimate absurdity of relativism is that it makes the personal conscience of each of us the ultimate arbiter of what is right and wrong.

That means that crimes are allowed if the criminal thinks he is making the morally righteous decision to commit a crime.

Then, of course, the relativist retreats a little and says that society (not God) has some say in the matter. But if the relativist thinks that society makes the wrong move (let’s say choosing to overturn partial-birth abortions) then society is wrong and the individuals who oppose the right to life have a right to campaign and turn the law back in their own direction. This makes the moral authority for right and wrong devolve strictly on the party with the greatest political clout. An endless see-saw of ambivalence starts to plague the moral order, until even marriage between members of the same sex and legalized sex with children (NAMBLA) become the demands of those degenerate but savvy enough to realize that at last their time has come.
 
40.png
Carl:
MONARCHY

Do I wish to de-convert people? No. I could care less what you believe as long as it doesn’t interfere with my rights…

Disengenuous, to say the least. You and other atheists have been extremely active at Catholic Answers. So active that one has to wonder why you find all the time you spend here if you could care less what or why we believe.

My own take is that you are searching for God and you have landed in the right place to find Him.
Click to expand...
Let’s put it like this. What would happen if Catholics didn’t use applogetics to show people that they didn’t believe things they are accused of? (Things like idol worship, marian worship, etc…)
Eventualy the old ‘tell a lie long enough and it starts to stick’
would take hold and persecution of catholics would increase from other denomonations.

I am here becuase untruths are spread here about atheists. Just a few that I’ve seen:
  • Atheists have weak fathers
  • Atheists Deny the existance of god
  • Atheists worship no God
I also have the people who believe atheists worship the devil (whom I also don’t have any belief in), and other mistruths. If I don’t speak up for the truth about myself who will?

If you want to believe in God, be my guest. It’s no skin of my nose. But where your beliefs cross my rights, I will speak up (pledge of allegance, blue laws, etc…)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top