Curial cardinal denounces secularization of religious life in Europe, North America [CWN]
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W
wisdomseeker
Guest
I am not surprised about what is going today. i truly believe once the Liturgy was messed with that many suffers we have to endure, yet the leaders of the Church dont get it. as long as we continue to be stuborn much more we will have to endure. i told this to the priest and he pretty much agreed wiht me. there goes the veil, oops, there goes the dress code, there goes reverence in the Church, and so forth.
the Liturgy. we must look at the Liturgy of the Church. Worship is very important to God. without we will have nothing.
the Liturgy. we must look at the Liturgy of the Church. Worship is very important to God. without we will have nothing.
J
JReducation
Guest
Cardinal Rode said it was undoubtedly more difficult today for all religious orders to find young people who are willing to break away from the superficial contemporary culture and show a capacity for commitment and sacrifice. Unless this is dealt with in formation programs, he said, religious orders will produce members who lack dedication and are likely to drift away.
I read the version of this story on CNS and found the above paragraph to be very striking. There is no denying that religious have adopted secular models and have hurt themselves as individuals and their religious institutes. These models do not work, because they are inconsistent with the very idea that consecrated life is not part of the secular world. And I’m using the term secular here in its good meaning. Secular, according to Church law and tradition is anyone who is not a consecrated religious. The pope is a secular man. All diocesan deacons, priests and bishops are secular men. Some societies are secular institutes, secular orders, secular societies of priests. It is important to remember that the word secular is not a four-letter word. It is a good term. It describes a segment of the population that is not bound by the profession of the evangelical counsels: obedience, poverty and chastity.
All that being said, it must then be understood that religious life (friars, monks, nuns, sisters, brothers and regular priests) is made up of men and women who are different from their secular peers. Our life is guided by the vows. Religious orders have rules. Religious congregations have constitutions. But we all have a vision and mission that was inspired by the Holy Spirit. That vision and mission can only be lived through fidelity to the religious life. When religious men or women begin to adopt the models of their secular peers, such as praying alone, living alone, turning charity into social work or other forms of human services, we lose what makes us different. This makes it very difficult to attract the young.
As it is, the young already have an attachment to material success. The idea of a permanent commitment to anything or anyone is a foreign thought to them. Thus they look at marriage as tentative, “If it works out.” Unfortunately, they see very little by way of example of permanent commitment and sacrifices made out of love coming from their parents. They live in a society where they are told that they may choose to keep their unborn children. Many of them believe that pro-choice is different from pro-abortion. The point is that young people today are given a set of priorities that are based on comfort, not on real love.
When religious men and women adopt a way of living and working that is too easy to confuse with what everyone else is doing, it begs the question in the mind of the young, “Why become a brother or sister?” From where they sit, brothers and sisters are just like their parents and friends.
In addition, we have to take a close look not only at the religious who have adopted these secular patterns of living and working, but we also have to look at Catholic lay people. The truth is that if we look at the vocation forum right here on CAF what do we see? Every time a young male comes on these boards no one encourages or promotes the religious life. There is a lot of support given to the priesthood. But the priesthood is not religious life. It’s a completely different vocation. Most priests are not religious. They are secular men. The Cardinal is talking about religious life, not the priesthood. That’s another issue for another Sacred Congregation. There is a Sacred Congregation for Priests. What concerns the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life is the secularization of the religious life and the lack of attention that religious and laity are paying to the consecrated life.
Religious need to do what Vatican II said, “Recover the spirit of our founders.” Our founders had a vision on how to live the Gospel that was different. Our way of life must conform to that. We must focus on prayer, community, penance, discipline, charity and mission, in that order. When you jump or take short-cuts to mission, which is what has been done by many religious communities, you lose your identity. If you lose your identity, the average person in the pew will not notice your presence, much less be attracted to your way of life. Our way of life has to be radically different from the priest in the parish, the married person with children, the single person who does great works of charity and social justice. It has to be a mirror of Christ’s work on earth.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I read the version of this story on CNS and found the above paragraph to be very striking. There is no denying that religious have adopted secular models and have hurt themselves as individuals and their religious institutes. These models do not work, because they are inconsistent with the very idea that consecrated life is not part of the secular world. And I’m using the term secular here in its good meaning. Secular, according to Church law and tradition is anyone who is not a consecrated religious. The pope is a secular man. All diocesan deacons, priests and bishops are secular men. Some societies are secular institutes, secular orders, secular societies of priests. It is important to remember that the word secular is not a four-letter word. It is a good term. It describes a segment of the population that is not bound by the profession of the evangelical counsels: obedience, poverty and chastity.
All that being said, it must then be understood that religious life (friars, monks, nuns, sisters, brothers and regular priests) is made up of men and women who are different from their secular peers. Our life is guided by the vows. Religious orders have rules. Religious congregations have constitutions. But we all have a vision and mission that was inspired by the Holy Spirit. That vision and mission can only be lived through fidelity to the religious life. When religious men or women begin to adopt the models of their secular peers, such as praying alone, living alone, turning charity into social work or other forms of human services, we lose what makes us different. This makes it very difficult to attract the young.
As it is, the young already have an attachment to material success. The idea of a permanent commitment to anything or anyone is a foreign thought to them. Thus they look at marriage as tentative, “If it works out.” Unfortunately, they see very little by way of example of permanent commitment and sacrifices made out of love coming from their parents. They live in a society where they are told that they may choose to keep their unborn children. Many of them believe that pro-choice is different from pro-abortion. The point is that young people today are given a set of priorities that are based on comfort, not on real love.
When religious men and women adopt a way of living and working that is too easy to confuse with what everyone else is doing, it begs the question in the mind of the young, “Why become a brother or sister?” From where they sit, brothers and sisters are just like their parents and friends.
In addition, we have to take a close look not only at the religious who have adopted these secular patterns of living and working, but we also have to look at Catholic lay people. The truth is that if we look at the vocation forum right here on CAF what do we see? Every time a young male comes on these boards no one encourages or promotes the religious life. There is a lot of support given to the priesthood. But the priesthood is not religious life. It’s a completely different vocation. Most priests are not religious. They are secular men. The Cardinal is talking about religious life, not the priesthood. That’s another issue for another Sacred Congregation. There is a Sacred Congregation for Priests. What concerns the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life is the secularization of the religious life and the lack of attention that religious and laity are paying to the consecrated life.
Religious need to do what Vatican II said, “Recover the spirit of our founders.” Our founders had a vision on how to live the Gospel that was different. Our way of life must conform to that. We must focus on prayer, community, penance, discipline, charity and mission, in that order. When you jump or take short-cuts to mission, which is what has been done by many religious communities, you lose your identity. If you lose your identity, the average person in the pew will not notice your presence, much less be attracted to your way of life. Our way of life has to be radically different from the priest in the parish, the married person with children, the single person who does great works of charity and social justice. It has to be a mirror of Christ’s work on earth.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
U
unafraid
Guest
Dear BR. JR., with all due respect, your perspective is very subjective, and for many of us, Cardinal Rode sounds a clarion call for which we have all been praying. To judge clerical efficacy in the past fifty years is to find a far greater need in them for penance than for thanksgiving, especially regarding the edification of the faithful. The Church has convulsed in spasm directly relative to clerical insufficiency, and yes, abuse. That Cardinal Rode speaks defiantly, in contradiction to this interminable call for the faithful to forgive, and be patient, while the head finds its bearings to lead the body, is refreshing to those of us who trust only the Holy Spirit to lead us toward the light. Anyone who doesn’t see the seed of the sex scandals germinating from Vatican II, stands before a different judge, and bows to a different savior than I do. Bravo, Cardinal Rode! May your voice be the first of a great choir of reformers. May this be the cataract opening a floodgate!
J
JReducation
Guest
You missed a key point. The Cardinal is not talking about the clergy. He’s not involved with the clergy. He is the Prefect for the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Apostolic Life. This Congregation has nothing to do with priests. This congregation only deals with brothers and sisters. Do not confuse religius life with Holy Orders. They are not the same and do not come under the same grouping or under the same authority in the Church.
The Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life has no jurisdiction over deacons, priests or bishops, because these are not consecrated religious. They are secular men. There is a congregation for them. It is the Sacred Congregation for the Clergy.
If you notice, the Cardinal is speaking only about religious life. That being said, there are some priests who are religius, but they are a minority. When the Cardinal addresses religious, he’s not speaking about the priesthood. He’s speaking about the vowed life.
Any call to the clergy comes from another congregation, noit this one. Even those priests who belong to religious orders respond to this congregation, not as priests, but as religious brothers. That’s the only jurisdiction that the congregation has. The authority of this congregation is limited to how those in vows live the vows, it does not include Holy Orders. That’s separate department in the Vatican and they have their own authority.
Be careful not to confuse religiuos life and ordained life. They are not the same. The Church does not want them to be the same. That’s why she has separate departments for each. This decree comes from the Congregation for religious. The priest abuse scandals do not come under their jurisdiction, nor anything that is liturgical or that has to do with deacons, priests or bishops.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
J
JReducation
Guest
The liturgy does not come into play here. The Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life has not jurisdiction over clergy. They govern religious (brothers and sisters).
The liturgy falls under the jurisdiction of another Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship. Clergy (deacons, priests and bishops) come under another congregation.
The Cardinal is the universal superior of religious men and women, not clergy or the liturgy. The Church does not allow the Prefects to cross lines. The Prefect for religiuos may not speak to priests or on liturgy and so forth. The Roman Curia is very compartamentalized for the sake of order and justice.
I know this is not commonly known by most people and we think that the word “religious” applies to priests. It does not. It only applies to consecrated men and women in vows. The concern here is only for those in vows. We have to be careful not to attribute to the Cardinal soemthing that he is not doing. That can cause a great deal of harm. If you go to your parish priest and say that Cardinal Rode said this or that, he would wonder what that has to do with him. He not a religious. He’s a priest. Therefore, Rode has no authority over him.
Religious are in a category of persons of their own. They are not part of the laity nor are they part of the clergy. They belong to a different state in life. Therefore, they have their own government in the Church. Cardinal Rode is the current head of that office.
I hope this clarification helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
C
Catholic29
Guest
Br. JR, judging by your responses to those above, its apparent to me that many (if not most) practicing Catholics today are to a significant degree illiterate to the place and mission of religious in the Church, much less how their set up and canonically classed.
One big reason for greater support of the diocesan/secular priesthood is it boils down to the equation that fewer priests = fewer available Sacraments = fewer dispensed graces to the faithful and so forth. And no too few dioceses are hurting (and seriously) in their priest complements, so they are a higher priority to bishops and lay faithful alike as they should be, though hopefully not to the outright exclusion and banishment of religious.
Since Vatican II religious communities male and female have fallen into the hidden recesses of the Church and Western society, even though they played a huge role in the earlier histories of both, but alot of that marginalization I have to say was and continues to be self inflicted.
Even though I have personally fallen away from the fold (nearly an atheist now), I still maintain a strong interest in the Catholic Church and its inner workings, and if I were to return to faith it would be back to Catholicism that much I have determined.
One big reason for greater support of the diocesan/secular priesthood is it boils down to the equation that fewer priests = fewer available Sacraments = fewer dispensed graces to the faithful and so forth. And no too few dioceses are hurting (and seriously) in their priest complements, so they are a higher priority to bishops and lay faithful alike as they should be, though hopefully not to the outright exclusion and banishment of religious.
Since Vatican II religious communities male and female have fallen into the hidden recesses of the Church and Western society, even though they played a huge role in the earlier histories of both, but alot of that marginalization I have to say was and continues to be self inflicted.
Even though I have personally fallen away from the fold (nearly an atheist now), I still maintain a strong interest in the Catholic Church and its inner workings, and if I were to return to faith it would be back to Catholicism that much I have determined.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
thank you for the clarification. i am used to go to Mass at the country where we had only secular priests. and the priests all lived in the Church and were available 24/7.The liturgy does not come into play here. The Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life has not jurisdiction over clergy. They govern religious (brothers and sisters).
The liturgy falls under the jurisdiction of another Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship. Clergy (deacons, priests and bishops) come under another congregation.
The Cardinal is the universal superior of religious men and women, not clergy or the liturgy. The Church does not allow the Prefects to cross lines. The Prefect for religiuos may not speak to priests or on liturgy and so forth. The Roman Curia is very compartamentalized for the sake of order and justice.
I know this is not commonly known by most people and we think that the word “religious” applies to priests. It does not. It only applies to consecrated men and women in vows. The concern here is only for those in vows. We have to be careful not to attribute to the Cardinal soemthing that he is not doing. That can cause a great deal of harm. If you go to your parish priest and say that Cardinal Rode said this or that, he would wonder what that has to do with him. He not a religious. He’s a priest. Therefore, Rode has no authority over him.
Religious are in a category of persons of their own. They are not part of the laity nor are they part of the clergy. They belong to a different state in life. Therefore, they have their own government in the Church. Cardinal Rode is the current head of that office.
I hope this clarification helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
they never got payed. they were saints like, we knew them by their habits. wherever they went they always worn their habits. today we dont know who they are anymore. the franciscans were more in seclusion within the Church. i dont remember ever going to Mass where a franciscan would say Mass.
J
JReducation
Guest
Many religious orders of men allow their brothers to be ordained priests. The Franciscan family is one of them. The conditions are very strict. Those who aks for ordination must be approved by their brothers and ultimatey by their major superior. The Church believes and teaches that in the case of religious men, Christ calls men to the priesthood only through the voice of the religious community. The Major Superior speaks for the community; therefore, he speaks for Christ when he allows one of hsi brothers to be ordained.
However, those members of religious ordes who are ordained prierts, are also religious brothers. They do not cease to be brothers, because they remain in vows and are bound to live by the rule and life of the community. They have no special place in the community. The priesthood is their ministry, but not the ministry of the community as a whole, only that of the individual who is ordained. The community regulates how much priestly work the individual religious is allowed to do.
Normally, most religous communities of friars and monks do not ordain large numbers of men, because they are not bound to take care of the faithful in parishes. That is the duty of diocesan or secular priests. Many times bishops will ask a religious community to lend them the ordained brothers, because they have a shortage of priests in their dioceses. When this happens the loan is granted with a condition. The condition is that the priests who are lent to the bishop must be first of all brothers and comply with all of their obligations to the community. Their work in the parish cannot interfere with such things as community prayer, manual labor, community recreation, community meetings, community discipline, traditions, silence, other duties that the community may assign to them. Therefore, these men are not available to the parish 24/7. It’s impossible, because they have to be available to their brothers 24/7. Their time in the parish is regulated by the community’s schedule and the community’s needs.
Just like a married man’s first priority is to his family then his parish, a religious who is a priest has a first priority to his community then to his parish.
When the Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for Religious speaks, he is not speaking about priesthood or priestly duties. That is not within his jurisdiction. He is speaking about the other things that I mentioned. He is speaking about community prayer, recreation, rules, customs, traditions, discipline, formation, retreat, silence, penances, fidelity to the founder, fidelity to the rule and fidelity to community life. That is is his major concern.
Today, despite the shortage of priests in parishes, the Vatican is more concerned about the shortage of religious men and women and about the quality of their religious life. Why is that? The Church’s tradition has been that religious life is the spiritual backbone of the Church. If the Church does not have healthy religious communities, there will not be healthy secular priests. The work of secular priests is sustained by the life and sacrifice of religious. The prayer and discipline of religious life, with the Eucharist and the Liturgy of the Hours, which all religious must observe, is the greatest source of grace for the secular priest.
That’s the reason why there are so many investigations, visitations and corrections being given to religious men and women. Their spiritual life is a source of grace. They are supposed to pray around the clock, to celebrate the Eucharist in community daily, to do penance, to perform great acts of charity and mercy and through all of this Christ makes his presence felt in the Church and pours out the grace of vocations to marriage and priesthood to those outside of religious life. It is all part of the doctrine of the Communion of Saints. Without this religious stability and health, the Communion of Saints is weak. When that happens, we see a decrease in vocations to the secular or diocesan priesthood. This happened before during the Middle Ages. Thanks to the Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites and Cistercians who restored religious life, the secular priesthood and marriage were restored through this communion.
This is why the Sacred Congregation for Religious and not the Sacred Congregation for the Clergy is speaking out.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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