Cursillo

  • Thread starter Thread starter GerardSchlundt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GerardSchlundt

Guest
A friend that recently witnessed problem in his live, and realized he needed to “get right” with God. He was born and raised catholic, and reverted. During this reversion, he discovered the Cursillo.

He suggested that it might be something I would be interested in.

I asked my parish priest, a fraternity priest, but he didn’t know anything about it, and couldn’t make any recommendation. The DRE (a devout nun) was familiar with the movement, and said it was a good program.

My questions comes about because I have read that folk music, tie dye and rainbows(des colores) are some other ideas that seem very worldly. Is this something that came from my friends impression of the movement, or is the “worldliness” part of the movement.

Are there any simular retreats or ‘programs’ that would be more in line with traditional catholicism?
 
the word cursillo comes from Spanish for course, as in a course in Catholicism, so the cursillo is a series of meetings, sessions, classes to catechize those who attend (cursillistas), to awaken in them awareness of the gifts of Holy Spirit received in baptism and confirmation, and to use those gifts for their own spiritual growth and thereby for the benefit of the Church and for evangelization. the song De Colores is based on a Mexican folk tune, and has no relation to tie dye. depending on the era, music at their Masses has reflected the contemporary liturgical music style of the day, which can hardly be blamed on the cursillo movement per se, although De Colores and some other Mexican songs are identified with the movement.

In some places it was a precursor, in other places contemporaneous with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and they do have some common aspects, but are not identical.

Cursillo still exists in many dioceses. Think if it not as a one time retreat but as a commitment to a series of sessions with the goal of accepting and submitting to the action of the Holy Spirit in your life as a Catholic Christian. If you somehow imagine traditional Catholics do not or should not do that, you are right to look elsewhere.
 
puzzleannie said:
the word cursillo comes from Spanish for course, as in a course in Catholicism, so the cursillo is a series of meetings, sessions, classes to catechize those who attend (cursillistas), to awaken in them awareness of the gifts of Holy Spirit received in baptism and confirmation, and to use those gifts for their own spiritual growth and thereby for the benefit of the Church and for evangelization. the song De Colores is based on a Mexican folk tune, and has no relation to tie dye. depending on the era, music at their Masses has reflected the contemporary liturgical music style of the day, which can hardly be blamed on the cursillo movement per se, although De Colores and some other Mexican songs are identified with the movement.

In some places it was a precursor, in other places contemporaneous with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and they do have some common aspects, but are not identical.

Cursillo still exists in many dioceses. Think if it not as a one time retreat but as a commitment to a series of sessions with the goal of accepting and submitting to the action of the Holy Spirit in your life as a Catholic Christian. If you somehow imagine traditional Catholics do not or should not do that, you are right to look elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Great answer.

I would also add that if you think the faith is something in your head, and a program that helps you to respond to the faith in your heart is not a good thing, then you should seek another type of retreat. It is not that it is a touchy-feely thing, it is rather that it is not a retreat to learn intellectual knowledge about the faith, but to learn how to live it.
 
I can’t tell you exactly how Cursillos are conducted today, since I made mine in 1973, and I’m not sure if there’s been any change, although I’m sure the essential elements are the same.

The fact that they’ve been around for more than 35 years is proof that they are something good, and obviously approved by the Church. They’re a special kind of retreat, but I guess it depends on what you’re looking for.

If you’re concerned about how “Catholic” they are, let me just say that when I went on mine, I went to Confession after having not gone for 6 years! 😃

As I said, it probably depends on what you’re looking for, but, after having gone on Cursillo, I can’t see how anyone would have a bad experience.
 
It sounds like depending on who’s running it, it could vary greatly. I attended a Cursillo weekend a couple years ago and there was absolutely no aspects of the Charismatic Renewal at all. It follows more of a Christian Awakening or Kairos retreat. The weekend is mainly structured of talks by priests and laymen and are meant to connect men or women to living out their lives as Christians. There are alot of witness testimonies as well as informative talks on the Sacraments etc, with time for Adoration and Confessions. I highly recommend Cursillo, atleast the type I’ve experienced.
 
from the beginning Cursillo, not exactly targeted men, but was intended to invite and welcome men and make them comfortable. It does involve sharing personal faith, and listening to conversion stories and testimonies of others. If that sort of thing makes you uncomfortable, this is not for you. the idea of Cursillo is to engender a deep heartfelt acceptance and embracing of one’s Catholic faith, so that will lead to evangelization through the way you now live your life. You will not experience tongues, being slain in the spirit or other typical charismatic life in the spirit elements, unless the Cursillo is conducted by people in that movement, which is not as common any more.

It started in Mexico, at least the first priests to conduct such retreats here came from Mexico, at a time when the public practice of the faith was suppressed there, and originally, at least where I am familiar with it (Detroit, SE Texas) was first conducted for Hispanics, primarily men. This is a culture that at least stereotypically leaves active piety and practice of religion to women. Goal of Cursillo is conversion, not initial conversion from godlessness, but continuing conversion, mainly from lukewarm to ardent life in faith in Christ.

My father was invited to attend Cursillo in the 70s by coworkers, black and Hispanic, in Detroit, and it not only led him to deep conversion–like many he had drifted from regular Mass and sacraments in the turmoil following V2. It also formed the basis for a very deep, lived spiritual renewal and spiritual life for the rest of his too-short life. Thanks to Cursillo he died in the grace of God and the Church. Cursillistas who had become friends also were very kind and attentive during his final illness (cancer). I did not know anything about this until we talked shortly before his death, having already left home before this time, but I will always bless Cursillo.

Cursillo generally is conducted in a parish setting. it turns out, perhaps not surprising, that many older men who are active in parish life and social outreach have been in Cursillo at some point. So I have learned a lot from them. I personally have never talked to anyone who had a bad experience in Cursillo, but that means nothing.

If you are looking for a silent retreat, this is not it.

It might be good to get the advice of a confessor or spiritual director who knows you about the retreat that will be most helpful for you at this stage in your life.
 
otjm said:
Great answer.

I would also add that if you think the faith is something in your head, and a program that helps you to respond to the faith in your heart is not a good thing, then you should seek another type of retreat. It is not that it is a touchy-feely thing, it is rather that it is **not a retreat to learn intellectual knowledge about the faith, but to learn how to live **it.
Click to expand...
Sounds great 👍
 
sorry I could not post this sooner, did not think to look on this forum for this particular topic

link to national Cursillo website in Dallas
cursillo.org/
for those who want more info
 
I have never been to Cursillo. I have no reason to have any opinion about it whatsoever.

I would like to note that some very bad retreat movements that try to associate with it. In the Southwest, the ACTS retreat movement, which I do have experience with and is AWFUL is often billed by its boosters as “just like Cursillo”.

I would personally not go on a retreat of any kind until I had discussed the content with another traditionally-minded Catholic.
 
We have several Cursillistas who attend our Saturday Morning Catholic Mens Prayer Breakfast. I have never been on Cursillo, but have made several Marriage Encounters, a movement that also originated in Spain and which has a very similar elements. Of course Cursillo is done by individuals and M.E. by couples. Both have liturgical elements, sharing talks, small group discussion (In M.E. it is discussion between the married couple and in Cursillo in small same sex groups.)

It has an impact of renewing and strengthening ones Faith followed by going out into the everyday world and bringing Christ to others (It is not “Are you saved brother?”)

The men that I know are very strong Catholics who show concern for others and who are excellent role models for Catholic men. One of the guys is now a permanent deacon. The movement is active in our diocese and it has been supported by our Bishops.
 
What do you think I’m afraid of? Being trapped on the “other side of the river” with 100 wacko men crying and hugging each other and telling each other it’s OK, that you don’t have to be Catholic, and that God understands about the abortions and divorces and drugs.

If YOU have never been trapped for a long weekend on the other side of the river with loonies, thank God for your good fortune.

As for me, I went on an ACTS retreat shortly after my conversion.

We had no clergy present for most of the retreat, when clergy did show up they were nuts (San Antonio diocese, so that is a given). The presenters were laymen who knew ZERO about the teachings of the Church and gave these long windy talks designed to make people cry. The “retreat team” knew ZERO about the Chrurch, told us again and again and again that “God doesn’t care if you’re Catholic or not” and discussed among themselves whom they could get to “pop” (go on a crying jag).

Mass was a shambles, because about 25% of the retreatants were non-Catholics. At first they had “open communion” but switched to “only if you feel in your heart that this is Jesus” by the end of the weekend. I was an altar server and EMHC for one of the Masses (I have since repented). After Mass, Fr. told me “Just pour out the wine on the ground if you like, this is natural ground”. It wasn’t until later than I found out that many classes of Seminarians in San Anotnio were taught that along the way…hence my suspicion that most priests and EMHCs in this diocese are LS excommunicated anyway. Since I “believed in my heart” that indeed that was the Blood of Christ, I consumed it, of course!

This is only the tip. Much more happened, but nobody cares anyway. Anyone who would ask “what are you afraid of”…I just don’t know what to say. This. This is what I’m afraid of. The damn crazy liberal wacko nutballs who pass for “Involved Catholics” in my diocese.

Honestly, if I had not been so new to area, and I knew the geography better at the time, I would have just left the reteat on foot…walked across the bridge and down the highway.

Oh, and these sorts of retreats cannot be criticized in our diocese. ACTS is “wonderful” and anyone who thinks differently is “medeival”. In point of fact, ACTS is a project of the Missionary Oblates who teach theology at the diocesan seminary here, and are wackos beyond belief. Well-known heretic Fr. Ronald Rolheiser is a San Anotnio Oblate…why the Church can’t seem to find a way to shut him up and send him to away to a monastery in the mountains is beyond me. Oh right, I forgot, my Bishop is a Tool.

My advice - Don’t ever get on a bus with a bunch of people and agree to be locked up on “the other side of the river” for a long weekend with them until you know what they are about. Period.

Damn right I’m angry, just to anticipate the question.
 
so, anywayyyyyyyyyyyy …

When I went on my Cursillo retreat I had a wonderful time. We had a real priest there full time and my associate pastor at the time came up for half a day. We had 2 deacons there too. A retired Bishop came and gave a talk.

I highly recommend the movement and meetings.
 
Sorry if I went to far OT in the Cursillo thread. Being asked “What are you afraid of” set me off. Back on topic. Glad to get opinions about Real Cursillo from Traditional Catholics.
 
Howard_Roark said:
What do you think I’m afraid of?

We had no clergy present for most of the retreat, when clergy did show up they were nuts .
Click to expand...
And, you are qualified to determine the clergy of the HMC to be “nuts” by what decree?
 
Oh, sorry, I neglected the fact that lay people are not allowed to have an opinion about clergy.

Seriously, though, they’re nuts. Most of 'em in this diocese are nuts. One reason I drive hours every Sunday to get to the one parish I know I can trust is the insane homilies. You never know what is going to come out of their mouths. Every once in a while, we try one of the nearer parishes, last time we did the deacon gave a homily about Sartre that made no sense whatsoever, then after Mass the priest came to the pulpit and I thought “Oh, he didn’t think that homily was good either, he’s going to teach on the readings”…but no. Instead he ranted for 20 minutes that people had better stop gossipping about how much he smokes or he would leave the parish and it would close.

I am not joking. I am not nearly creative enough to make this stuff up.

We have Mexican Communist Racists, White Homosexual Liberals, Women’s Ordination Proponents, Crazy Irish Liberals…you don’t think they’re nuts? I do. Nuts. Crazy nuts.

OK, I’m done, back to Cursillo. Anyone else wants to take me to task, just start a new thread.
 
Howard_Roark said:
I have never been to Cursillo. I have no reason to have any opinion about it whatsoever.

I would like to note that some very bad retreat movements that try to associate with it. In the Southwest, the ACTS retreat movement, which I do have experience with and is AWFUL is often billed by its boosters as “just like Cursillo”.

I would personally not go on a retreat of any kind until I had discussed the content with another traditionally-minded Catholic.
Click to expand...
your tactic is admirable

the traditionally minded Catholics who I work with down here who have participated in ACTS think it is fantastic. It probably depends on who is putting it on, and on who is attending it, and why. The similarity between ACTS and Cursillo is the emphasis on renewing one’s own spiritual life for the specific intent of building up the Church. sorry your experience with ACTS in SA was bad. the two teams from SA who have been hear to present retreat and train teams have been excellent, some of them are people I know from other ministries, some are new to me, but both teams models of excellence, orthodoxy, and restraint.

One of the parishes which was among first here to host ACTS had already been having serious problems within its leadership, lay and clerical, and those problems surfaced and were made worse, probably because of the make-up of the first ACTS teams in that parish. The other parishes I know of have experienced excellent results, in one case healing some leadership problems. When there is division between clergy and laity in a parish, ACTS can bring it out and make it worse, as can any parish-wide endeavor.
 
That is the one question I have about Cursillo - is it highly variable like some other retreats? Or is it very consistent?

I think you are 100% correct about the variability in ACTS retreats, which is one reason I try to include my location

SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS in case anyone hadn’t caught it

in my posts.
 
even location is not a sure harbinger of orthodoxy, as it is up to the new teams how they present the next set of retreats. ACTS is by invitation only, and in part seems to have supplanted Cursillo, at least in “Anglo” parishes, and Cursillo seems active in the more heavily Hispanic parishes.

I have been to Ignatian retreats which are orthodox and those which have been disasters, all based on the same Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius, all presented and directed by Jesuit priests.

you pays your money and you takes your chances, unless you have spoken with people you admire and trust about their experience with the same retreat, at the same place, by the same presenters. also just because a particular retreat experience does not seem to speak to your own needs at a given time, does not mean the presentation has nothing of value to offer, nor does that mean it is necessarily unorthodox.
 
This “movement” is very visible in my diocese (Lubbock, Texas), never done anything with them, nor have much of an opinion.

Just a little funny note:

When I started noticing it, I thought it was a “christian” band thing. I don’t know why, just what I assumed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top