Cursillo

[DebChris]

Sorry, but that doesn’t explain why I am not allowed to drive unless I get permission. Or why people are told not to talk about what happens over the weekend.

The person that wanted to sponsor me is in her 70’s. The retreat center is an hour and a a half away. So she was going to have to take 3 hours out of her Thursday and Sunday. They have one car. On the other hand I am in my 40’s. With 2 drivers, we have 3 cars. It would only make sense for me to drive myself. But she had to get permission for that to happen.

I see these things and I see people trying to keep others in the dark so they can maintain control over you and the weekend… When someone takes your cell phone instead of asking you to silence it, I see someone trying to take control. When someone covers windows that are 7 feet high, instead of letting the light shine in, I see someone trying to take control. When a weekend is planned, but you aren’t giving a schedule, I see someone trying to take control. When everyone that has gone knows that Thursday night is silent, but you aren’t allowed to tell anyone, I see someone trying to take control. When you are seated with people you will never see again, instead of those that are from your same parish, I see someone trying to take control. When people pretend to be making their weekend, but are really part of the “giving team,” I see someone trying to take control.

Others may see those things and see wonderful people simply doing things that make sense. And if I saw just one or two of those I might too. But when I see so many that are without explanation, I can’t simply move on and not question it. I just can’t.

First, I don’t own a vehicle. In any case nobody said I needed permission to drive even if I had a car. I was offered a ride which I accepted. I will have to check to verify the history, but I think the first Curstillistas hiked to their site singing DeColores as they walked. I knew my destination.
I don’t remember whether or not windows were covered or if Thursday nights were silent. Then again, I am used to attending retreats in which participants are expected to maintain grand silence after compline. Light definitely streamed into the chapel. I was not asked to relinquish any personal items. I know there are retreats, mostly youth retreats, in which people are asked to do just that. Again, I am not going to describe Cursillo based on rumors or other people’s descriptions. If you are not ready to make Cursillo, for what ever reason, don’t go. Please stop trying to discredit those who say they enjoyed the weekend.

 

[KimberlyAnn0218]

Sorry, but that doesn’t explain why I am not allowed to drive unless I get permission.That apparently does not happen at every Cursillo. I satyed at a church/school so parking was at a premium. And I do believ it is a show of support-in my area that is. Or why people are told not to talk about what happens over the weekend.The " big scret" is the surpirse show of support tat happens on like day 2 and then last day oh, and related to meals-which I will not reveal. The poster thing-which was not graded, or chastised, but along supported and encouraged at MY cursillo is in my opinion kept secret-as you eldude dto earlier-because let’s face it-that sounds boring. In my case it got more fun as we understood what we doing with them. We may not have been artisitcs but ceative, yes indeed

The person that wanted to sponsor me is in her 70’s. The retreat center is an hour and a a half away. So she was going to have to take 3 hours out of her Thursday and Sunday. They have one car What a nice gesture she was making on your behalf. Silly in my opinion, but very gracious. On the other hand I am in my 40’s. With 2 drivers, we have 3 cars. It would only make sense for me to drive myselfagreed. But she had to get permission for that to happen. Yep, that’s unusual. Not a conspiracy I would think though

I see these things and I see people trying to keep others in the dark so they can maintain control over youcontrol no, purposeful order perhaps? and the weekend… When someone takes your cell phone instead of asking you to silence it, I see someone trying to take controlNo one lost theirs in ours. People even used them Yours was odd to be sure. When someone covers windows that are 7 feet high, instead of letting the light shine in, I see someone trying to take control. When a weekend is planned, but you aren’t giving a schedule, I see someone trying to take controlThen don’t go. I too, actually was inquiring before i went…“where’s the itinerary” and I was told that I should just sit back and let the day unfold and trust. I DID however, do a lot of reserach before I went and found the description of the talks so I knew in advacne what the topics were. It was not difficult to find . When everyone that has gone knows that Thursday night is silent, but you aren’t allowed to tell anyone, I see someone trying to take control. When you are seated with people you will never see again, instead of those that are from your same parish, I see someone trying to take controlOr perhaps let you meet others? I met a new, dear friend that way. When people pretend to be making their weekend, but are really part of the “giving team,” I see someone trying to take controlI respect your thoughts but disagree-I thought it was cool when “magialyl” our table member was giving a talk. Kind of a pride thing.

Others may see those things and see wonderful people simply doing things that make sense. And if I saw just one or two of those I might too. But when I see so many that are without explanation, I can’t simply move on and not question it. I just can’tYours definately sounds off to be sure compared to mine. I am a very organized, planned out person so this took me out of my comfort zone. I was able to let go and go with the flow and appreciate all the organization it took to pull it off. .

 

[Jeremiah1278]

(BTW, Jeremiah, I’m not the only one who uses the “r-word” when referring to Cursillo. The author Carol Bonomo did it first, I followed suit because it sounded deeply appropriate. You can correct us both in your next book.)

Equating rape with being annoyed by things that happen to you on Cursillo is indefensible. I won’t debate you on the topic because it doesn’t deserve justification as any sort of legitimate claim. That you make this comparison reflects your histrionic and somewhat paranoid writings on this topic.

 

[maryjk]

If you are not ready to make Cursillo, for what ever reason, don’t go. Please stop trying to discredit those who say they enjoyed the weekend.

Please stop implying that people aren’t “ready to make Cursillo” simply because they ask questions, don’t think it will be their cup of tea or leave early. Cursillo is an option. It is not a Sacrament. Some people will never go. And it isn’t because they “are not ready.”

If you enjoyed your weekend, great. But as you stated, your weekend, happened a long time ago. Things may have changed.

For me, I know what happens because I knew to ask questions. I know that I would need permission to drive. I know they want your watch and your cell phone. I know they cover the windows. I know they don’t give you a schedule. I know Thursday night is silent, but other than at Mass and Adoration, no other time is silent. So it isn’t Grand Silence. I know that people pretend to be what they aren’t.

I know all of this. This isn’t rumor. I know this because I asked questions about our local weekend.

So, I advise anyone looking to make a Cursillo weekend, to ask these questions.

 

[DebChris]

Please stop implying that people aren’t “ready to make Cursillo” simply because they ask questions, don’t think it will be their cup of tea or leave early. Cursillo is an option. It is not a Sacrament. Some people will never go. And it isn’t because they “are not ready.”

If you enjoyed your weekend, great. But as you stated, your weekend, happened a long time ago. Things may have changed.

For me, I know what happens because I knew to ask questions. I know that I would need permission to drive. I know they want your watch and your cell phone. I know they cover the windows. I know they don’t give you a schedule. I know Thursday night is silent, but other than at Mass and Adoration, no other time is silent. So it isn’t Grand Silence. I know that people pretend to be what they aren’t.

I know all of this. This isn’t rumor. I know this because I asked questions about our local weekend.

So, I advise anyone looking to make a Cursillo weekend, to ask these questions.

Nobody has ever claimed that Cursillo is a Sacrament or requirement. It is indeed an option, only one of the different ways that people experience the Holy Spirit in their lives. Cursillo is not a retreat although it has some of the characteristics of a retreat. There is time for prayer, the Sacrament of Reconciliation, Mass, and spiritual direction.
“Not ready” can also be interpreted to mean “don’t want to go, at least not now.” As always, it remains your choice.
My reunion group has invited people thinking about making Cursillo to our weekly meetings, giving them a better idea of what it’s all about. I joined the same group to which my sponsor belonged (she has since moved), as did one of the members of my table. There is a difference between seeking information by asking questions and demanding answers to every minute detail of the weekend. Again, those of us who have made Cursillo may withhold “spoilers” that might keep you from the full experience that we enjoyed.

 

[Jeremiah1278]

For me, I know what happens because I knew to ask questions. I know that I would need permission to drive. I know they want your watch and your cell phone. I know they cover the windows. I know they don’t give you a schedule. I know Thursday night is silent, but other than at Mass and Adoration, no other time is silent. So it isn’t Grand Silence. I know that people pretend to be what they aren’t.

I know all of this. This isn’t rumor. I know this because I asked questions about our local weekend.

So, I advise anyone looking to make a Cursillo weekend, to ask these questions.

If you need answers to anything, ask.

If someone gives you an inadequate answer for your own situation, don’t go.

If you need a lot of answers to a lot of questions about the weekend, and no answer satisfies you, please consider whether or not you are an ideal candidate for the weekend. Your sponsor may have you all wrong, or your sponsor may be making the common mistake of simply asking any close Catholic friend to make a weekend.

“The ideal candidate for a Cursillo is the person that shows qualities of leadership, who is influential in his milieu; a person whose ideas carry weight, whose decisions and attitudes have an impact on society. The ideal candidate refuses to live a mediocre life and wishes to build a more human and fraternal world. Such a candidate is sociable, capable of working within a team, responsible, generous and solicitous for others and the world.”
( see Fundamental Ideals…# 221 - 226)

If this doesn’t describe you (social, fraternal, solicitous, team-work oriented, influential in your environment), Cursillo may still be wonderful for you, but you should do more discerning. If you don’t like to work in teams, the majority of Cursillo will be rough on you. If you aren’t social, it could be very rough. If you wouldn’t describe yourself as influential or a leader in your world, you may not have the personal security that allows you to not care about things like not knowing the weekend’s schedule or the fact that you may need to present ideas through a drawing you made with your teammates. So discern and discern. Like I said, if you don’t have the qualities of an ideal candidate, you can still have a great weekend.

If you are thinking about sponsoring others, you should keep these things in mind too.

If you don’t have a list of questions for which you *must *have answers, you are not crazy. You may be like the most of us who are asked to go on the weekend—ideal candidates who really don’t need these answers. This doesn’t make you or me better Christians. It just makes us a type of Christian that could get some use out of the Cursillo method/system/program. That some people need these answers is fine, but it’s a poor argument that Cursillo is somehow sinister or not worth your time.

 

[Mummsie]

Given the vast differences in experiences, would it be helpful/permissable to identify the dioceses. I can understand if those with bad experiences might not want to identify their diocese. I had a great experience at the Diocese of Gaylord (Michigan).

 

[DebChris]

If you need answers to anything, ask.

If someone gives you an inadequate answer for your own situation, don’t go.

If you need a lot of answers to a lot of questions about the weekend, and no answer satisfies you, please consider whether or not you are an ideal candidate for the weekend. Your sponsor may have you all wrong, or your sponsor may be making the common mistake of simply asking any close Catholic friend to make a weekend.

“The ideal candidate for a Cursillo is the person that shows qualities of leadership, who is influential in his milieu; a person whose ideas carry weight, whose decisions and attitudes have an impact on society. The ideal candidate refuses to live a mediocre life and wishes to build a more human and fraternal world. Such a candidate is sociable, capable of working within a team, responsible, generous and solicitous for others and the world.”
( see Fundamental Ideals…# 221 - 226)

If this doesn’t describe you (social, fraternal, solicitous, team-work oriented, influential in your environment), Cursillo may still be wonderful for you, but you should do more discerning. If you don’t like to work in teams, the majority of Cursillo will be rough on you. If you aren’t social, it could be very rough. If you wouldn’t describe yourself as influential or a leader in your world, you may not have the personal security that allows you to not care about things like not knowing the weekend’s schedule or the fact that you may need to present ideas through a drawing you made with your teammates. So discern and discern. Like I said, if you don’t have the qualities of an ideal candidate, you can still have a great weekend.

If you are thinking about sponsoring others, you should keep these things in mind too.

If you don’t have a list of questions for which you *must *have answers, you are not crazy. You may be like the most of us who are asked to go on the weekend—ideal candidates who really don’t need these answers. This doesn’t make you or me better Christians. It just makes us a type of Christian that could get some use out of the Cursillo method/system/program. That some people need these answers is fine, but it’s a poor argument that Cursillo is somehow sinister or not worth your time.

If I didn’t notice whether or not the windows were covered, it may simply be that I was too involved in the activities to pay attention.

In an earlier post, I mentioned wilderness trips in which I had to let go of far more than I did for my Cursillo weekend. Watches, radios, and other unnecessary items were left on the bus. Each person who made the trip was asked to make a full commitment to the group and to completing the trip before beginning. It was understood that anybody unable to complete the trip was responsible for his/her own way home. Of course, nobody wants to be stranded in the wilderness. While making Cursillo is a far cry from mountain hiking or canoe camping, the full benefit comes from following through on the commitment to complete the entire weekend.

As a candidate, especially if you have a tendency to be reserved, you may be unaware of the qualities of leadership and influence you do possess until you bring your gifts to the table. Candidates making Cursillo sit at tables where they share within their small groups (teams) before sharing with the whole group.

I made Cursillo in the Charlotte diocese (NC).

 

[maryjk]

If this doesn’t describe you (social, fraternal, solicitous, team-work oriented, influential in your environment), Cursillo may still be wonderful for you, but you should do more discerning. If you don’t like to work in teams, the majority of Cursillo will be rough on you. If you aren’t social, it could be very rough. If you wouldn’t describe yourself as influential or a leader in your world, you may not have the personal security that allows you to not care about things like not knowing the weekend’s schedule or the fact that you may need to present ideas through a drawing you made with your teammates. So discern and discern. Like I said, if you don’t have the qualities of an ideal candidate, you can still have a great weekend.

And even if this does describe you, a Cursillo weekend may not be for you.

In fact, if you are the type of person that “shows qualities of leadership, who is influential in his milieu; a person whose ideas carry weight, whose decisions and attitudes have an impact on society,” you may not be interested in Cursillo at all. That just means that Cursillo is interested in YOU.

 

[Jeremiah1278]

And even if this does describe you, a Cursillo weekend may not be for you.

In fact, if you are the type of person that “shows qualities of leadership, who is influential in his milieu; a person whose ideas carry weight, whose decisions and attitudes have an impact on society,” you may not be interested in Cursillo at all. That just means that Cursillo is interested in YOU.

Good point!

 

[gh4]

What I have learned from this very long thread!

1. Some people had wonderful cursillos.
2. Some people had horrible cursillos.
3. People who had wonderful cursillos have trouble imagining a horrible one.
4. People who had horrible cursillos have trouble imagining a wonderful one.
5. We have to trust that when someone had feelings we didn’t have, it doesn’t diminish the feelings the other person had, nor does it diminish the ones we had.
6. Not all leaders will love cursillo.
7. Some who have never been leaders will blossom as a leader in cursillo.
8. Some will always be followers.
9. Just because someone didn’t like cursillo or someone had a bad experience doesn’t mean that they weren’t ready, it means that it is what it is.
10. Some will love other types of retreats ever so much better.
11. I will never convince someone who had a horrible cursillo that many of them aren’t. And someone who had a wonderful cursillo will never convince someone who had a horrible one that there are good ones abounding.
12. Sometimes good people don’t have good experiences. And sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

I think we all agree that anyone who is considering Cursillo should do their due diligence and find out what it is and how it’s run and get all their questions answered before they attend. That is the bottom line as I see it. And that’s my story and I’m stickin to it!

 

[Jeremiah1278]

I like that summary, GH4

 

[maltmom]

Wow, I finally finished reading all 22 pages of this thread. I’ve never heard of Cursillo in my area. ACTS retreats are big here. I won’t derail the thread talking about ACTS. I deeply appreciate all the comments both good and bad about Cursillo. What I’ve learned from threads about these types of weekends is that they aren’t for me for a number of reasons. I’m thankful for the information. I think it’s wonderful that so many have a wonderful experiences at them. My cousin goes on retreats at a convent. I’ve been there and spiritually that would be better for me.

God Bless!

 

[DebChris]

Wow, I finally finished reading all 22 pages of this thread. I’ve never heard of Cursillo in my area. ACTS retreats are big here. I won’t derail the thread talking about ACTS. I deeply appreciate all the comments both good and bad about Cursillo. What I’ve learned from threads about these types of weekends is that they aren’t for me for a number of reasons. I’m thankful for the information. I think it’s wonderful that so many have a wonderful experiences at them. My cousin goes on retreats at a convent. I’ve been there and spiritually that would be better for me.

God Bless!

While Cursillo is an international movement, it is not available everywhere. I first heard of Cursillo while living in WI, but it was no longer available in the area while I was there. I was pleasantly surprised when I was invited.
Jeremiah mentioned that some Cursillistas invite every Catholic they know in their enthusiasm to share what they experienced. One point made throughout this thread is that there are many movements within the Catholic Church through which the Holy Spirit works. There are many different ways that a person can draw closer to God. Cursillo is just one of those ways. Enjoy your time at the convent.

 

[iloveangels]

I am getting the idea that Cursillo is for those that are at the beginning of their journey with Christ. I have read a lot about how the weekend brought them to Christ. Or that they didn’t really know Him before the weekend. Or that people were following the wrong path in their lives but the weekend turned them around.

Best kept secret in the Catholic Church: Probably half of all Catholics are in this exact condition on any given day. Many of them have all the responses memorized and know all the talk about love, love, love, even though they may well have no real grasp on Catholic Christianity as a consistent system of beliefs, a deposit of faith.

 

[maltmom]

While Cursillo is an international movement, it is not available everywhere. I first heard of Cursillo while living in WI, but it was no longer available in the area while I was there. I was pleasantly surprised when I was invited.
Jeremiah mentioned that some Cursillistas invite every Catholic they know in their enthusiasm to share what they experienced. One point made throughout this thread is that there are many movements within the Catholic Church through which the Holy Spirit works. There are many different ways that a person can draw closer to God. Cursillo is just one of those ways. Enjoy your time at the convent.

Thank you. I need to check to see if they have any retreats coming up. My cousin isn’t Catholic, but she’s an associate with the nuns. She has been working with them, going on retreats, etc for a number of years.

I agree with what you said about there being many different ways to draw closer to God. The Holy Spirit drew me away from being Baptist to now being happily at home in the Catholic Church.

 

[Mummsie]

thank you. I need to check to see if they have any retreats coming up. My cousin isn’t catholic, but she’s an associate with the nuns. She has been working with them, going on retreats, etc for a number of years.

I agree with what you said about there being many different ways to draw closer to god. The holy spirit drew me away from being baptist to now being happily at home in the catholic church.

Welcome Home!!!

 

[maltmom]

Welcome Home!!!

Thank you so much. It’s great to be home.

 

[BlueRoses12]

Equating rape with being annoyed by things that happen to you on Cursillo is indefensible. I won’t debate you on the topic because it doesn’t deserve justification as any sort of legitimate claim. That you make this comparison reflects your histrionic and somewhat paranoid writings on this topic.

Wow.

This is, of course, an example of the logical fallacy known as “argument ad hominem.” Firing one’s cyliders at the person rather than their ideas. It’s on the level of “Yo’ mama!”

However — I’ve had to go through this thread and ponder whether I, myself, have engaged in ad hominem.

I can see now that, although I may not have outright insulted people, I’ve descended into sneering at something they enjoyed, something they feel helped them, even something they love. In that way I have insulted people’s judgment and taste.

I sincerely apologize for doing that.

To do so was ineffective because what I want, above all, is for vulnerable people to be protected. Not to mock people because of what they value.

Kimberly Ann, you said something earlier that surprised and really touched me. Gh4 had said, “Perhaps I should start a website about cursillo and post experiences on it, good and bad, for others to read. So they can at least make an informed decision to attend or not.” You replied, “YES-now that, done well would be a great help to many. PERHAPS even point out to people who can make a difference the poorly done cursillos. This idea I could hitch my bandwagon to.”

I was surprised because I really didn’t think Cursillo supporters wanted anyone to slip past their nets. Because group survival depends on enough candidates. But this shows me that maybe we’re not so far apart after all. Maybe we all mean well after all.

I said earlier that I’d talked to the priest who had been involved in my weekend. He responded to me most graciously. In his Friday night speech he’d told how these types of groups, this type of interaction, literally saved his vocation. To wish this type of group to disappear would mean to lose a very good and holy priest. And a wonderful human being.

I was very satisfied with my conversation with him. Unfortunately, the group’s website still doesn’t list anyone who should not attend this type of weekend. And, you’re right, DebChris, Cursillo proper has no control over this.

I was rather disappointed that nobody responded to the quote from Carol Bonomo. Perhaps there are wide variations in cultural expectations, but it’s hard to believe people wouldn’t find that situation rather ghastly.

I still suspect that the core problem is that there is such a strong message given by these weekends: “Open up! Abandon your adult self-protection and just trust us!” But we can’t do that willy-nilly, especially when surrounded by strangers in a strange situation. God gives each one of us responsibility over our own lives – he doesn’t direct us to hand it to others. This wouldn’t even be physically safe, much less spiritually, unless responsible and aware people are controlling the experience. And if there aren’t … !

It’s rather like the falling-backward “trust falls” game that used to be so much in vogue, and seemed to be used without a focused purpose other than to advocate a vague, global, unrealistic and unhealthy trust. Go online and you can find a lot of people who have been injured in trust falls. There are videos of “Trust Fall Fails.”

True trust must be earned, over time. It can’t be rightly demanded during a weekend.

What is the answer? I’m not sure, other than that it’s ineffective and wrong to push problems under a rug. I’m glad people are starting to take this seriously.

 

[KimberlyAnn0218]

Wow.

Kimberly Ann, you said something earlier that surprised and really touched me. Gh4 had said, “Perhaps I should start a website about cursillo and post experiences on it, good and bad, for others to read. So they can at least make an informed decision to attend or not.” You replied, “YES-now that, done well would be a great help to many. PERHAPS even point out to people who can make a difference the poorly done cursillos. This idea I could hitch my bandwagon to.”

I was surprised because I really didn’t think Cursillo supporters wanted anyone to slip past their nets. Because group survival depends on enough candidates. But this shows me that maybe we’re not so far apart after all. Maybe we all mean well after all.

.

AMEN! I am glad to hear your response because yes, in this thread one of things that bthered me the most was being assigned to a group of people who may indeed exist (Cursillo fanatics but I think a majority of us who had a positive experieince just want others to know what we experienced.
Thank you for posting your reply on my comment, that is very appreciated:thumbsup: