Cursillo

[cjmclark]

That is my point. The only information I can get is negative. Now many people are telling me what a wonderful experience it is. But none of those people will tell you anything about it. **So since no one will counter the negatives, I have no choice but to believe them. **
I had a friend invite me to join a Opus Dei retreat. I knew more about that retreat than I can find out about this weekend. Why???

The statement in bold seems pretty disingenuous to me. You are willing to let the fact that no one has countered the potential detractors you have raised in an online forum “force” you to decide in the negative?

If you have real, legitimate concerns about the program, then I urge you to contact your diocese and pose your questions to them. You could post whatever answers you find out here. In any event, it would likely be more productive than raising alarmist accusations of cult activity.

And no, I’ve never attended one.

 

[mandajane]

I have to say, the lack of information is what has prevented me from attending as well. It does show many of the hallmarks of a ‘cult’.

The big reason I don’t want to go, however, is that I feel it divides “Cursillistas” away from the rest of the Body of Christ. We should be in an open and sharing relationship as a faith community, not shushing each other and keeping secrets. It’s even worse that this ‘division’ also extends to married couples. My fiance and I have done a lot to share our faith with each other, and the idea that we should go on a faith retreat separately, and keep what happens there a secret from each other until we have both gone… it strikes me as counterproductive.

Also, these rumors about having your watch and cell phone taken are deeply troubling. if I’m using NFP, how am I going to know the right time to take my temp without my watch? As far as the phone, I have family members who worry about me, and would want me to call and check in. It all sounds very sketchy.

 

[maryjk]

The statement in bold seems pretty disingenuous to me. You are willing to let the fact that no one has countered the potential detractors you have raised in an online forum “force” you to decide in the negative?

The fact that no one, on line or otherwise, is willing to address the points has caused me to believe that the points I have put out are true.

Hey, if they aren’t, I am all ears. If someone can tell me that the weekend doesn’t include love bombing, sleep deprivation and little gifts, I would be more than happy to listen. Tell me that no one will show up at the end of the weekend as brand new friends (friends I have never met.) Tell me that no one would ever think about asking for my watch, my cell phone or my car keys. Tell me no one will carry my overnight bags, for me; no one will unpack for me. Tell me I won’t be shuttled from one activity to another without knowing a schedule.

I would love to know that all I have heard or read is wrong.

But see, no one will say a word.

If you have real, legitimate concerns about the program, then I urge you to contact your diocese and pose your questions to them. You could post whatever answers you find out here. In any event, it would likely be more productive than raising alarmist accusations of cult activity.

And no, I’ve never attended one.

So you know nothing about them?

Would you willingly go on a weekend where the only good thing you hear is, “it is great” or “I loved it” or “I grew so much?”

 

[DebChris]

Did a search in the Catechism and I didn’t find Cursillo. Could you tell me which topic it is under?Experiencing the “Love of Christ” through sleep deprivation? Through love bombing? Or through the gifts that are given to throw you off balance?
I get that I need everyone’s okie dokey.

I have to say, when I posted the things that I have read about, someone, anyone would tell me that Cursillo isn’t about love bombing or sleep deprivation.

I expected someone to post here or maybe even send me a message explaining what I wasn’t understanding.

But no. Everyone is so deep into their secret they can’t even try to explain why my perception is wrong. That tells me that my perception is right and the weekend will be about love bombing, sleep deprivation and unwanted gifts.

I have stated several times that there is no sleep deprivation. It is not about “love bombing.” It is about not only learning about the faith, but also experiencing faith.
I currently reside overseas and do not have my United States Catechism of the Catholic Church. If I had it with me, I would gladly tell you on which page Cursillo is mentioned. It grouped together with other movements of the Holy Spirit such as the Charismatic Renewal. These are two very distinct movements within the Church.
Many people go on regular retreats as I have and experience a “mountain top experience.” Many witness to the “mountain top” experience of making a Cursillo. For me, the experience was much more subtle, perhaps because I have experienced the “mountain top” at other times during my life. As Christ told the Apostles who witnessed the transfiguration, we all return to the valley and to our daily life. We bring our experience into our everyday life.

I would hesitate to call it a cult. But I do have definite questions about it. We all have a life long call to holiness; ie conversion never ends. It seems to me the Cursillo movement tries to make this instantaneous. And they do this many through drawing out emotional responses. But this life long process of coming to holiness ( for most of us it won’t even be completed at death, hence if we are saved God keeps working on us via purgatory) cannot be jump started and sustained with a three day emotion filled weekend.

Also, there are many paths of spirituality in the Catholic Church, I won’t question cursillo being one of them. But I do question any of them which foster the attitude they have the answer for all.

Some detailed questions:

Are there really no windows, watches not allowed, and no published schedule ahead of time? Are drawing pictures around a table with markers one of the activities? To what end?
How much private, silent meditation time is included? What type of food is served? What are some of the major theological themes ?

In our daily life, we become watch dependent. We do not wear watches while making a Cursillo. I made my Cursillo in 2006 so I cannot remember all the details. I slept in the gymnasium with the other Curstillistas. Others make Cursillo at retreat centers where they have private rooms. I do not remember windows being covered. I did know what was scheduled next. The food was good. Individuals who made Cursillo before I did volunteered their time to prepare and serve the food. Modifications were made to meet individual diet restrictions. There was definitely time for private and silent meditation.
There is an emphasis on formation as a lifelong process.
You are correct in saying that Cursillo is only one of the pathways of spirituality within the Catholic Church, one of the ways in which the Holy Spirit works.

A Cursillo is only a three day retreat. The person is not going into seclusion for weeks or months at a time. If that were so, the fears of “cultism” would be more justified. Making a Cursillo is not a trip to Disneyland, but using that analogy, how much would you really want to know before going? How many have been disappointed because they had too much information?

 

[maryjk]

I have stated several times that there is no sleep deprivation. It is not about “love bombing.” It is about not only learning about the faith, but also experiencing faith.

Okay, so you got enough sleep. You were not ushered from one activity to another without opportunities for quiet time. Good.
It is not about love bombing. Great. So there won’t be little gifts throughout the weekend. That is good to hear. I won’t have to worry about lots of people showing up at the end for “encouragement.” That seemed over the top to me. Glad to hear that won’t happen.

I currently reside overseas and do not have my United States Catechism of the Catholic Church. If I had it with me, I would gladly tell you on which page Cursillo is mentioned. It grouped together with other movements of the Holy Spirit such as the Charismatic Renewal. These are two very distinct movements within the Church.
Many people go on regular retreats as I have and experience a “mountain top experience.” Many witness to the “mountain top” experience of making a Cursillo. For me, the experience was much more subtle, perhaps because I have experienced the “mountain top” at other times during my life. As Christ told the Apostles who witnessed the transfiguration, we all return to the valley and to our daily life. We bring our experience into our everyday life.

In our daily life, we become watch dependent. We do not wear watches while making a Cursillo. I made my Cursillo in 2006 so I cannot remember all the details. I slept in the gymnasium with the other Curstillistas.

Was not wearing your watch a choice you made. Or is it recommended by Cursillo? I only ask because like others have stated here, there are times I NEED to know what time it is. I would also have the same problem with giving up my cell phone or car keys.

Others make Cursillo at retreat centers where they have private rooms. I do not remember windows being covered. I did know what was scheduled next.

Were you able to opt out of anything? Maybe go to a chapel for quiet time with God?

The food was good. Individuals who made Cursillo before I did volunteered their time to prepare and serve the food. Modifications were made to meet individual diet restrictions. There was definitely time for private and silent meditation.

Did this all occur on Thursday night, the silent part of the Curcillo?

There is an emphasis on formation as a lifelong process.
You are correct in saying that Cursillo is only one of the pathways of spirituality within the Catholic Church, one of the ways in which the Holy Spirit works.

A Cursillo is only a three day retreat. The person is not going into seclusion for weeks or months at a time.

You do know that it only took 5 days for the original victims of the Stockholm Syndrome. Not saying that is happening here, just that lots of things can happen in 4 days. (Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday is 4 days)

If that were so, the fears of “cultism” would be more justified. Making a Cursillo is not a trip to Disneyland, but using that analogy, how much would you really want to know before going? How many have been disappointed because they had too much information?

It is funny you mention Disney. If you go off to Disney without any information, any plan, you are going to end up very disappointed.

 

[DebChris]

I heard about Cursillo 23 years before I actually had an opportunity to go. It was not available where I lived. I had a friend who spoke openly about the effect it had on his life and how it led him toward the relationship he had with Jesus Christ. Several years after I moved to the city I now call my hometown, a friend offered to sponsor me. Cursillo weekends in my home diocese fill fast and I had to wait for a time when there was an opening. A few weeks before I was actually able to make Cursillo, I broke my ankle in a car accident. I was still on crutches and wearing my boot when I went.
If you make Cursillo, you will not want to opt out of any of the activities which are all authentically Catholic in nature. There is time for Spiritual Direction and opportunities to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Based on the questions being asked, I sense a reluctance to step out of your comfort zone for a short period of time. Making Cursillo does require a person to let go of control and let somebody else care for you for a change. You will not be asked to do anything that would go against personal conscience. What did I bring with me? I brought a small suitcase with casual clothes. I also brought my Bible.

If I go to Disneyland with a complete knowledge of the rides, I may find myself disappointed because they did not live up to my expectations. There are individuals who make Cursillo skeptically just as there are individuals who reluctantly go to Retrouville in a last ditch effort to save their marriages. Sometimes the most skeptical are the most pleasantly surprised and rewarded.
Did I do any research before I accepted employment overseas? Of course, I did. I had to get a passport. I found assurances that I would be able to receive state of the art medical care. Knowing that the weather would be hot does not compare with actually experiencing the heat any more than somebody telling me how cold WI can be could prepare me for that experience. None of the research compares to the actual experience. It could not prepare me for the vibrant Catholic community I would find in this Muslim country.
The strangers you meet on Cursillo may become lifelong friends along your spiritual journey. Yes, it can be life changing. Nobody is going to force you to make a Cursillo. Just know that the opportunity is there, if you are willing to take the step.

 

[maryjk]

I heard about Cursillo 23 years before I actually had an opportunity to go. It was not available where I lived. I had a friend who spoke openly about the effect it had on his life and how it led him toward the relationship he had with Jesus Christ. Several years after I moved to the city I now call my hometown, a friend offered to sponsor me.

Is Cursillo only open to those that can find sponsors? Yes, I have been invited, but I thought it was opened to anyone.

Cursillo weekends in my home diocese fill fast and I had to wait for a time when there was an opening. A few weeks before I was actually able to make Cursillo, I broke my ankle in a car accident. I was still on crutches and wearing my boot when I went.
If you make Cursillo, you will not want to opt out of any of the activities which are all authentically Catholic in nature. There is time for Spiritual Direction and opportunities to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

But can you opt out?Lets say you already have a Spiritual Director or you just went to Confession.

Based on the questions being asked, I sense a reluctance to step out of your comfort zone for a short period of time. Making Cursillo does require a person to let go of control and let somebody else care for you for a change. You will not be asked to do anything that would go against personal conscience.

I do have reluctance to turn my self over for 4 days to someone I don’t know. Without a watch, cell phone or car keys, even if I am asked to do something that I don’t feel is right, I really have no option to leave. Or at least I don’t without causing a stir.

What did I bring with me? I brought a small suitcase with casual clothes. I also brought my Bible.

If I go to Disneyland with a complete knowledge of the rides, I may find myself disappointed because they did not live up to my expectations.

You would also know which rides to avoid because they make you barf. Sorry, I was just there and if I didn’t do any research I would have been on a ride that would have ruined the rest of my day.

There are individuals who make Cursillo skeptically just as there are individuals who reluctantly go to Retrouville in a last ditch effort to save their marriages. Sometimes the most skeptical are the most pleasantly surprised and rewarded.
Did I do any research before I accepted employment overseas? Of course, I did. I had to get a passport. I found assurances that I would be able to receive state of the art medical care. Knowing that the weather would be hot does not compare with actually experiencing the heat any more than somebody telling me how cold WI can be could prepare me for that experience. None of the research compares to the actual experience. It could not prepare me for the vibrant Catholic community I would find in this Muslim country.
The strangers you meet on Cursillo may become lifelong friends along your spiritual journey. Yes, it can be life changing. Nobody is going to force you to make a Cursillo. Just know that the opportunity is there, if you are willing to take the step.

I am getting the idea that Cursillo is for those that are at the beginning of their journey with Christ. I have read a lot about how the weekend brought them to Christ. Or that they didn’t really know Him before the weekend. Or that people were following the wrong path in their lives but the weekend turned them around.

 

[tafan]

DebChris, It seems, from the responses I read, that it is programmed in order to maximize a emotional response. Even the secrecy seems to be geared towards this. Yes, that would be very much out of my comfort zone.

I certainly am not accusing them of doing anything against a good Catholic conscience, that is not the point. I let people "take care"of me all the time,that is not it. I am not so proud that I do not think I need others to help be on the path to conversion.

I will admit, the lack of watch and the lack of light in the facility (which I have heard about before) throughout whole process is very unnerving to me. The idea that participants don’t know the time,can’t really guess the time, and never know what is coming next. That is not letting go of control, that is disorienting. Which I can imagine could be very useful for generating emotional highs and lows.

I asked about the food, because I had heard that even the food was utilized to illicit easy emotional responses: the participants think it very good, lots of sugar and carbs; to keep energy levels high and pent-up for the climaxes. I thought that was a little over the top.

Dependent on watches? No, I would call it regimented. Even my prayer life is “dependent on watches”. The detailed question about if this is voluntary has not been answered. I imagine it is “give me you watch, or leave”.

I have to agree with others about the cell phone being problematic. I have lots of kids dependent on me, I never would go anywhere for 3 days such that they or their care taker could not get a hold of me easily. Of course, asking participants to not use cell phones except in a emergency makes perfect sense.

And do they ask you to promise or take a vow to keep the details secret? The Disneyland analogy is very weak. You have a friend that goes to that and has a great time, doesn’t hold back information in order to “not spoil it for you”. No, I am pretty sure this “don’t tell so it is not spoiled” is really part of the emotional programming, if people know what is coming next or what is going on, the emotional highs and lows are not as extreme.

Who does the Spiritual Direction during these retreats? Are they the volunteers on the team, or do it on a regular basis outside of the retreats?

I have friends who are in Opus Dei. They will answer question after question about a lot of things. I never get a sense they are holding back, although I know they also have things they do not divulge to non-members. None of those things seem important in understanding their charism, what is going to take place. One friend was describing becoming a supernumerary, after he sent his letter requesting it (and by then he knew a lot), there was siz months of classes about what Opus Dei was all about, and after that a interview to make sure he really knew what he was getting into. And they are accused of being overlly secretive by critics!!! So can you imagine how this comes across. Where no questions are answered in specific terms besides things such as “its about experiencing the faith”.

But the really big question, which is never addressed: What are the major theological themes presented? All we hear is that it is inline with Catholic teaching; well that could be a lot of things.

 

[DebChris]

(1) You will not turn into somebody that you don’t recognize.
(2) No vows are taken. There is no laying on of hands.
(3) A team of 10-15 lay people plus two spiritual directors (at least one of which is a Catholic priest) prepares and hosts the weekend.
(4) Cursillo is open to baptized Catholics. You do want a sponsor. Your pastor also verifies that you would benefit in some way from attending Cursillo. In my case, I did not know that Cursillo was offered in my diocese until a friend asked me if I wanted to make Cursillo. It was not available where I lived before. The application also asks married individuals to seek spousal consent before making Cursillo.
(5) Again, nobody is going to force you to go to confession or seek spiritual direction. That would be contrary to Catholic teaching.
(6) Cursillo is for individuals regardless of where they may be along their spiritual journey. The Catholic Faith is rich enough that we will never reach the depths of all it has to offer. For the beginner, Cursillo provides a basic catechesis. It does teach ways that we can more effectively share our Faith with others. Personal conversion is always an act of the Holy Spirit, not something that we do on our own.
(7) There was no lack of light in the facility. Some Cursillo weekends are available at local retreat centers. In my case, the Cursillo took place in the local Catholic High School.
(8) Nobody asks you to turn in your watch. I have heard of retreats (not Cursillo) where individuals are asked to put their watches, cell phones, etc. in a basket for retrieval after the retreat. I mostly heard of this taking place in retreats specifically for youth. I have been on camping trips where participants were asked to leave their watches and other valuables on the bus before going into the wilderness.
I have made many silent retreats during my lifetime. Just as the bell signals when it is time for prayer or meals, you will have the same type of time orientation during Cursillo. I did know what was coming next, whether it was meal time, prayer time, or talk time.

This website will better answer your questions regarding what Cursillo is and what takes place during a Cursillo.
cursillo.org/mtstfrancis/Witness%20PDFs/Cursillo%20Movement.pdf

 

[tafan]

Debchris, thankyou for your detailed response. It helps. But it is rather confusing, as I have heard very different responses from others who had attended, so rather confusing. So I hope you don’t mind a couple of follow ups. I am not trying to be argumentative, just learn. And perhaps some of my previously posted skeptical is misplaced.

The secrecy issue: So no one promises to keep the retreat details a secret, and someone told you what was scheduled throughout the retreat ( at least before each activity took place). It didn’t seem to ruin the event for you. Then how does all of this hesitancy to discuss details originate? Are participants simply asked to not reveal details?

Watches: I have heard about the watches being turned in so many times, and you even referred to it in a previous response. But it doesn’t happen? And I was not referring to a lack of light, just covering windows or having retreats in facilities close to sun light to aid in this removal of awareness of time ( my words, maybe removal of dependency to watches may be your term). So participants wear their watches or not?

Thanks for the referendum which answered my questions about some of the theologicAl themes.

Is it geared towards emotions or meditative reflections? Again, descriptions I have heard in the past make it out to be a somewhat emotional lo/hi type of event. My take on them, not the participants

 

[DebChris]

Debchris, thankyou for your detailed response. It helps. But it is rather confusing, as I have heard very different responses from others who had attended, so rather confusing. So I hope you don’t mind a couple of follow ups. I am not trying to be argumentative, just learn. And perhaps some of my previously posted skeptical is misplaced.

The secrecy issue: So no one promises to keep the retreat details a secret, and someone told you what was scheduled throughout the retreat ( at least before each activity took place). It didn’t seem to ruin the event for you. Then how does all of this hesitancy to discuss details originate? Are participants simply asked to not reveal details?

Watches: I have heard about the watches being turned in so many times, and you even referred to it in a previous response. But it doesn’t happen? And I was not referring to a lack of light, just covering windows or having retreats in facilities close to sun light to aid in this removal of awareness of time ( my words, maybe removal of dependency to watches may be your term). So participants wear their watches or not?

Thanks for the referendum which answered my questions about some of the theologicAl themes.

Is it geared towards emotions or meditative reflections? Again, descriptions I have heard in the past make it out to be a somewhat emotional lo/hi type of event. My take on them, not the participants

Participants simply do not wear the watches. The reasoning behind not revealing details becomes clear at the closing.
There are both meditative and emotional elements to the weekend. As mentioned in an earlier post, my personal history kept me from experiencing the “mountain top” highs that other experienced. This emotional element is one of the reasons men and women have separate retreats. Men can be freer when there are no women around.

The song that is going through my head at the moment is “I Can Only Imagine.” I do not know how I will respond when I finally meet our Lord face to face. Each of us responds differently when we experience God’s Love in our personal lives.

 

[ringil]

Also, these rumors about having your watch and cell phone taken are deeply troubling. if I’m using NFP, how am I going to know the right time to take my temp without my watch? As far as the phone, I have family members who worry about me, and would want me to call and check in. It all sounds very sketchy.

I’ve been on individual retreats where you are asked to not use your phone, now that’s not the same as taking it, but assuming one is honest then it is practically the same thing. Actually, as I have never been to a cursillo, I can’t say that they take your stuff. On monastic retreats the schedule is VERY different from our contemporary sleep schedule and one might reasonably call this sleep deprivation.

I can say that my father and mother did go one Cursillos when I was a child and it really helped them. It helped bring our family closer in faith. We had weekly prayer time etc. Actually it’s the only time I have ever seen my father cry, which, though odd to me as a kid, was beautiful.

Was this change permanent, no, but it was certainly positive for us.

I am also a person who tends to be introverted and not so sociable. I went on a “Encounter with Christ” weekend as a kid and didn’t like it. I would think that this weekend has some of the features of the Cursillo. I do believe that if I would have opened my heart more I would have gotten something out of it.

I believe that the Cursillo is, largely, a good thing in the Church. It may not be one’s cup of tea, but, like human nature, that could be a signal that it is exactly what we would benefit from most. “No pain, no gain” you know.

My inclination is to attend more traditional, silent, individual retreats, and chances are, I wont attend a Cursillo, because I don’t want to annoy my wife, who, though Catholic, isn’t as “churchy” as I am.

But, surely, Cursillo isn’t a cult as it is simply one devotional movement within the Church. A cult is a religion in and of itself characterisid by control and abuse.

Growth is hard, growth is scary.

 

[tafan]

Debchris, again thank you for your replies. How do all participants come to the same point right away " they simply don’t wear their watches" when no one asks them to do so?

I am sure the reasoning behind not revealing details becomes clear, but it still is rather a turn off to someone like me who is a natural, and I admit this is not always good, a skeptic.

It just seems like there is a lack of straight forwardness and inconsistency in answers by different people.
I cannot help but contrast it with Opus Dei, a organization I am very impressed with, and questions are always answered so clearly and consistently. Never just a " you will understand when you experience it" type response.

I certainly am not accusing cursillo movement of cult like status, nor questioning it is very good for some people. Like the poster ringil, I more attracted to the silent, traditional, type retreats. Others have mentioned the Ignatious Spiritual Excersizes retreats; again it is so easy to know exactly what one is going to experience ahead of time. It is so much easier to decide, more importantly to prepare ( and I can guess the response to that).

There are many valid paths to spirituality in the Church, as you said we each respond to God’s love in different ways. But a common theme of this does seem to be: it’s good for everyone, therefore we don’t have to tell you details to aid in your discernment.

 

[maryjk]

I’ve been on individual retreats where you are asked to not use your phone, now that’s not the same as taking it, but assuming one is honest then it is practically the same thing.

Not using my phone to place a call and not being allowed to have my phone are two totally different things, not practically the same thing. If, while I am gone, my husband or son or job needs to contact me and someone has taken my phone, I will not know that I am needed until the phone is returned to me. If I am simply asked not to use it, I can check it at night, away from the group, if a call comes in. In one instance my family is without a way to contact me, in the other, they can contact me.

Actually, as I have never been to a cursillo, I can’t say that they take your stuff. On monastic retreats the schedule is VERY different from our contemporary sleep schedule and one might reasonably call this sleep deprivation.

But Deb said she got plenty of sleep and no one was deprived of sleep. Does anyone know which way it really is?

I can say that my father and mother did go one Cursillos when I was a child and it really helped them. It helped bring our family closer in faith. We had weekly prayer time etc. Actually it’s the only time I have ever seen my father cry, which, though odd to me as a kid, was beautiful.

Was this change permanent, no, but it was certainly positive for us.

Were your parents having problems before the weekend? Were they looking to solve some of those problems with the weekend?

I am also a person who tends to be introverted and not so sociable. I went on a “Encounter with Christ” weekend as a kid and didn’t like it. I would think that this weekend has some of the features of the Cursillo. I do believe that if I would have opened my heart more I would have gotten something out of it.

I am very extroverted and incredibly sociable. I easily make friends and work where I talk to people the whole time. The problem is, I don’t like false friends. Or friends that are now my friends for no other reason than I showed up for something. The love bombing that I have heard about, but Deb says doesn’t happen, is a problem for me. Sorry I don’t want gifts from someone that doesn’t know me. I don’t want people to show up at the end of the weekend, that know nothing about me and applaud that I made it through the weekend. I would rather they just stayed at home.

I believe that the Cursillo is, largely, a good thing in the Church. It may not be one’s cup of tea, but, like human nature, that could be a signal that it is exactly what we would benefit from most. “No pain, no gain” you know.

Could be. But I never believed that no pain, no gain stuff. I have had numerous surgeries, illnesses and the like. The last think you want is for something to truly be painful.

My inclination is to attend more traditional, silent, individual retreats, and chances are, I wont attend a Cursillo, because I don’t want to annoy my wife, who, though Catholic, isn’t as “churchy” as I am.

After reading some of the responses here, I might not be ALLOWED to go. See my husband is Catholic, but doesn’t attend Mass and hasn’t even made his 1st Communion. It sounds like my husband would have to go first, and that won’t be happening any time soon.

But, surely, Cursillo isn’t a cult as it is simply one devotional movement within the Church. A cult is a religion in and of itself characterisid by control and abuse.

Growth is hard, growth is scary.

What I said was that it sounded “cult like” not that it was a cult. In addition they seem to use techniques that cults use.

 

[maryjk]

Debchris, again thank you for your replies. How do all participants come to the same point right away " they simply don’t wear their watches" when no one asks them to do so?

I am sure the reasoning behind not revealing details becomes clear, but it still is rather a turn off to someone like me who is a natural, and I admit this is not always good, a skeptic.

It just seems like there is a lack of straight forwardness and inconsistency in answers by different people.
I cannot help but contrast it with Opus Dei, a organization I am very impressed with, and questions are always answered so clearly and consistently. Never just a " you will understand when you experience it" type response.

I certainly am not accusing cursillo movement of cult like status, nor questioning it is very good for some people. Like the poster ringil, I more attracted to the silent, traditional, type retreats. Others have mentioned the Ignatious Spiritual Excersizes retreats; again it is so easy to know exactly what one is going to experience ahead of time. It is so much easier to decide, more importantly to prepare ( and I can guess the response to that).

There are many valid paths to spirituality in the Church, as you said we each respond to God’s love in different ways. But a common theme of this does seem to be: it’s good for everyone, therefore we don’t have to tell you details to aid in your discernment.

You articulate this so much better than I do. Thank you.

 

[maryjk]

This is another take on Cursillo.

missionmoment.blogspot.com/2007/09/cursillo-i-have-no-idea-sort-of.html

1. THE SECRET: Cursillo thrives on the element of “secrecy” and “surprise.” Why? Why is a retreat with God and His people shrouded in such mystery? Because an assumption is made that “you’ve never really experienced your faith like this before.” The danger I see inherent in this assumption is that it assumes it knows me. So you’ve judged that I have never really met Jesus, huh? You think I’ve just been a pew potato for my entire life and now YOU are going to open my eyes to the real Jesus? Sounds fishy…

1. FEELINGS: Another issue I have with Cursillo is the emphasis on feelings. I have never truly “felt” my relationship with Christ and the Church before. I need to really “feel it”… let it out. There are elements of Cursillo that are designed to produce this euphoric feeling of being loved, affirmed, and God willing bring you to tears. This will lead to excessive hugging, which is the real catharsis and watermark of Cursillo. Hugs. Big on the hugs. I’m all about a good hug, but come on!

1. THE BELLS! THE BELLS!: When on Cursillo, you are left to the mercy of the Bell. You are not told where you are going, how long a given event is, what’s next, etc. You are, for all intents and purposes, a prisoner. They’ve got you where they want you! HAHA! Now this can be fun, and we could all use a little surrender now and then. But this is not for everyone.

1. NOTHING NEW: With all of the secrecy involved, you’d think there’d be some new gnostic truth revealed. That’s what you feel from all of the build up anyway. But instead (SPOILER ALERT!) we were given nearly 14 talks over the weekend on the basics of Christianity, with some group sharing/activities sprinkled in for good measure. It was solid stuff, granted. No heresies, no wacky new angles on the Faith. There were some beautiful testimonies, touching stories, real heart to heart sharing but… it was kind of like Catholicism 101. To which I responded, WITHOUT SARCASM, thank you for the refresher, sincerely… can I call my wife now?

1. IN THE CLUB (SPOILER ALERT!): After the experience of Cursillo, we were bussed back to our drop off point. It was nearly 7pm on a Sunday night. I had work in the morning, and had been away from my wife since Thursday. But as we departed from the bus and saw for a fleeting moment the Parking Lot of Freedom, we were quickly diverted to a church basement where over 100 “friends I’d never met before” greeted us with, you guessed it, hugs. We had to hug everyone of them, and then sit up at this stage in front of everyone with a microphone and a podium. We were then “invited” to share our experience of the weekend… more gushing, more hugs. Another hour of my life taken from me.

So yeah, Cursillo. No thanks. To me it seems too forced, too structured. On retreat, I prefer to sit in the stillness and let God do the talking, with a few pointers from homilies, devotions, scripture. And I don’t like the assumption that I’ve never really encountered my faith before. That if I am not overwhelmed by the love gushing out at me that I am “closed to the Holy Spirit” or something. Creepy.

 

[tafan]

This is another take on Cursillo.

missionmoment.blogspot.com/2007/09/cursillo-i-have-no-idea-sort-of.html

Thanks for the link. Again, the inconsistencies pop up. Mr Donaghy’s statement is inline with what I have gathered in the past. The parts that seem to be problematic for some of us, eg the excessive hugging, the newly imposed friends at the end, strangers trying to be way too close for comfort, the overreliance on emottions/feelings, the secrecy, to much like charismatic movements (nothing wrong with that for some, but its not for all of us); seem to be overlly downplayed when they are questioned. But I can’t help but feel that they are a big part of the program.

Well, I will end my involvement with this thread on this thread. Will certainly give supporters of the movement the last word, as I am not really interested in discrediting it. I just wanted to know more about it what I have been told is a “can’t miss” weekend.

I do like the daily mass, I would not worry about the sleep deprivation aspects, and as Mr Donaghy said: even if the theology is quite basic, there is nothing wrong with revisiting the basics. It is good to know everything is very orthodox, and I can only assume the Spirtual Direction is good quality. And of course the seperate retreats for men and women makes all the sense in the world. Mix gender retreats of any type are always questionable IMO.

 

[ringil]

This is another take on Cursillo.

missionmoment.blogspot.com/2007/09/cursillo-i-have-no-idea-sort-of.html

It sounds like Cursillo may not be a good option for your devotional life, and that fine.

 

[maryjk]

Thanks for the link. Again, the inconsistencies pop up. Mr Donaghy’s statement is inline with what I have gathered in the past. The parts that seem to be problematic for some of us, eg the excessive hugging, the newly imposed friends at the end, strangers trying to be way too close for comfort, the overreliance on emottions/feelings, the secrecy, to much like charismatic movements (nothing wrong with that for some, but its not for all of us); seem to be overlly downplayed when they are questioned. But I can’t help but feel that they are a big part of the program.

That is how I feel as well. I have friends, lots of them. I don’t understand the forced friendship with strangers.

Well, I will end my involvement with this thread on this thread. Will certainly give supporters of the movement the last word, as I am not really interested in discrediting it. I just wanted to know more about it what I have been told is a “can’t miss” weekend.

I have been invited to one of these weekends. I meet with, who would be, my sponsor, this weekend. So this isn’t just a casual interest. I am really trying to find out if I would ever want to go.

I do like the daily mass, I would not worry about the sleep deprivation aspects, and as Mr Donaghy said: even if the theology is quite basic, there is nothing wrong with revisiting the basics. It is good to know everything is very orthodox, and I can only assume the Spirtual Direction is good quality. And of course the seperate retreats for men and women makes all the sense in the world. Mix gender retreats of any type are always questionable IMO.

The only mixed gender retreat I would ever go on would be for married couples. Otherwise, I agree, it would be very questionable. That isn’t a problem here, my husband would not be interested in going.

 

[onthisrock]

I was very interested in going but the woman who was set to sponsor me wanted to meet me. We met for a few hours. She said that people sleep on the ground and that one woman was taken out in an ambulance…apparently cracked psychologically. I lean toward depression at times and my doctor who is Catholic urged me NOT to go. There must be something good about it or there wouldn’t be people who swear it changed their lives in profound ways. The deacon at my church thinks everyone should go, but if everyone was eligible then you wouldn’t need a sponsor to take you there (you’re not allowed to drive yourself so you can’t leave if you don’t like it) AND a priest to sign off on it. I’ll pray you make the best decision for you