Cursillo

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Jeremiah1278 said:
Also, I know all our personalities are different. But if I heard, “I had a great experience. It brought me closer to the truths of my religion. I’ve never been happier since.” I don’t know if my response would be, “That’s great and everything, but will I be hugged and unable to have my watch?”
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I feel like this comment is a little uncharitable to those of us with doubts about Cursillo. Some of us have issues that we need to be aware of and compensate for. (For example, I’m trying to learn the STM method of NFP for myself, which requires me to know the time so I can check my symptoms, and I have AvPD, which means I’m terrified to death of strangers/acquaintanes - along with a large number of other mental health issues.)

I’ve determined that for me, Cursillo doesn’t sound like that great of an idea. It would probably lead to me having a complete breakdown in the middle of the weekend and my FH having to come pick me up and take me home so I’m safe.

That being said, the reason I asked questions, and balked at non-commital answers while reading this thread is that for me, these are REAL CONCERNS. And it hurts to be mocked because I don’t just ‘trust’ that everything’s going to be ok, when I’ve heard rumors that make my hair curl about this movement. As Previous posters have mentioned, we find repeated testimony of the ‘bad’ about Cursillo, that is well written and gives solid examples. Yet, when we come to those who speak well of it, we get nothing but evasions and 'trust more’s. Which one do you think is more effective in communicating others to their position?
 
Today, I received 4th Day Letters in my regular e-mail.
When we speak of Cursillo, as in this thread, the emphasis has been on the three day weekend. Cursillo means “little course” and is meant to be short course in Christianity. Christianity is more than a simple course taken over a single weekend. It is a way of life. Cursilistas talk about the 4th day. The 4th day is the continuous formation as a Christian that lasts for the rest of our lives. Jeremiah alludes to this as he witnesses to how the weekend led him to delve more into his faith.
Reunion weekends and Ultreya are how Cursilistas meet to share how God continues to work in our lives on a daily basis. How are we living a life of piety, faith, and action?
The e-mail I received today, used the analogy of a stone and a sponge. Both will get wet if we put them into water. While a stone only gets wet on the outside, the sponge soaks up the water and becomes saturated. In the same way we are called to be saturated by the love of Christ.
John the Baptist said, “I must decrease that He might increase.” How willing are we to let go of the trappings of modern life to learn what God asks of us individually and collectively? The Apostles left behind everything they had in order to follow Christ when He said “Come and follow me.” The rich young man was unable to give up his riches to follow Christ.
As Christians we must be formed as a Christian, conform to a pattern of Christ and transform the secular environment in which we live. The Cursillo weekend is only a first step in that direction.
Jeremiah described himself as an analytical educated person. Many years before I made Cursillo I made an Intensive Journal Retreat. Letting go of the intellect and listening to our inner emotional selves was a struggle for almost of us who attended.
 
Many years ago I went to a retreat at my parish in Cincinnati, it was called Christ Renews His Parish (CRHP.) I was told much the same thing about that one, “just go, you’ll love it”, “you have to experience it”, “I can’t explain it”, “you have to do it for yourself.”
So I went and it was great and I have a great time and for over a year our group met every week and then gave a weekend a year later. I don’t remember if any of the rules were the same or similar. I do know that it was different, focusing on conversion stories and how people let God work in their lives etc. vs. learning about our religion or Christ. I know we spent the night in the undercroft of the church and ate very well and had lots of camaraderie with those who went on the weekend and it was just a really great time. But again, I had to “Let go and let God” and I’m so glad I did.

There are reasons that not everyone is made for CRHP or Cursillo or any of the other Catholic or Christian programs. It’s not required and you don’t have to do and if you are unable to go along with their requirements, then I’m guessing that it’s probably best not to go. If you go to the national Cursillo web page, they list reasons when it’s a very bad idea to go to Cursillo, And really, it’s not a big deal if you don’t go, don’t want to go or can’t go and never go.
 
gh4 said:
There are reasons that not everyone is made for CRHP or Cursillo or any of the other Catholic or Christian programs. It’s not required and you don’t have to do and if you are unable to go along with their requirements, then I’m guessing that it’s probably best not to go. If you go to the national Cursillo web page, they list reasons when it’s a very bad idea to go to Cursillo, And really, it’s not a big deal if you don’t go, don’t want to go or can’t go and never go.
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:hmmm:

Could you link to the site? I found the national site, but there really wasn’t much there. Only a short history, options to buy books and to send emails if you are offering prayers/fasting for someone. Oh, and links to state sites and people.
 
mandajane said:
I feel like this comment is a little uncharitable to those of us with doubts about Cursillo. Some of us have issues that we need to be aware of and compensate for. (For example, I’m trying to learn the STM method of NFP for myself, which requires me to know the time so I can check my symptoms, and I have AvPD, which means I’m terrified to death of strangers/acquaintanes - along with a large number of other mental health issues.)

I’ve determined that for me, Cursillo doesn’t sound like that great of an idea. It would probably lead to me having a complete breakdown in the middle of the weekend and my FH having to come pick me up and take me home so I’m safe.

That being said, the reason I asked questions, and balked at non-commital answers while reading this thread is that for me, these are REAL CONCERNS. And it hurts to be mocked because I don’t just ‘trust’ that everything’s going to be ok, when I’ve heard rumors that make my hair curl about this movement. As Previous posters have mentioned, we find repeated testimony of the ‘bad’ about Cursillo, that is well written and gives solid examples. Yet, when we come to those who speak well of it, we get nothing but evasions and 'trust more’s. Which one do you think is more effective in communicating others to their position?
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I understand, MandaJane. I don’t mean to be uncharitable. But here’s the deal: if you must know what time it is—you just tell somebody. They will make exceptions. If they don’t, the people running that Cursillo are probably bats, and you don’t want anything to do with it. It’s just not a real concern. If you have legitimate concerns about touching people, then it’s a real concern. You must understand however, that most people objecting to Cursillo are not folks with AvPD. They are people who don’t like the charismatic end of our spirituality. They might not be “a hugging person.” Most people objecting to a program’s suggestion that you don’t bring a timepiece are not people using NFP—they don’t like the loss of control or are married to texting.

If people have real concerns, modifications can be made. You would have to tell your sponsor. I hate to see people throw away an opportunity for something great simply because they have some minor control issues. Health issues are different. Most health issues can be accommodated. It’s not boot camp. These aren’t drill instructors. They are sweet older people (from where I sit) who are trying to help you get closer to Jesus and bring you cake.

As for the repeated testimony of bad experiences, there is something called selection bias. It’s an error in data gathering that’s ripe to occur with a movement like Cursillo. The majority of folks loved the weekend. If they loved it, then they aren’t going spill the beans on everything because they understand that part of the experience should not be telegraphed to future candidates. The small minority of people who hated the experience are the folks telling you about their experience. So when you hop online, they are going to spill their guts about everything that was terrible. I had a great time, but I’m not going to tell you about what made everything great. Because I understand that the experience would have been less important to my spirituality if someone gave me an itinerary of everything that would happen. I’m one of those people who doesn’t want you to tell me what the heck happens in a movie before I watch it. If you tell me who Rosebud is, then Citizen Kane isn’t going to be the great movie that everyone holds it out to be. If I tell you how Sixth Sense ends, you have every right to strangle me for ruining the entire experience.

So, yes. If I told you why Sixth Sense is a great movie, I would have to tell you exactly what happens. If I don’t tell you what happens, and simply tell you, “Just go. It’s awesome,” would you argue with me that I’m making a poor argument for why it’s a good movie? You’d be correct: it’s a poor argument. But is that really the point? The point is, I don’t want to ruin the movie for you, if you intend to go. If you’re the type of person who won’t go until I tell you exactly what happens throughout the film, then what’s the point of telling you anyway? The movie’s already ruined. You won’t enjoy the film, and I wanted you to go to enjoy the film.

It’s a rough analogy. But I’m trying to explain the selection bias you have in your data-mining for what’s going on in Cursillo. Only the people who think the movie stinked, will tell you what happened. “Oh, it was so stupid. This is what happened…” The people who loved it and think you would love it to will just say, “Oh, it’s great. You have to see it.” So it’s unfair to criticize those people for making a poor “argument.” To create that argument may require them to ruin the experience for others.
 
Jeremiah1278 said:
It’s a rough analogy. But I’m trying to explain the selection bias you have in your data-mining for what’s going on in Cursillo. Only the people who think the movie stinked, will tell you what happened. “Oh, it was so stupid. This is what happened…” The people who loved it and think you would love it to will just say, “Oh, it’s great. You have to see it.” So it’s unfair to criticize those people for making a poor “argument.” To create that argument may require them to ruin the experience for others.
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And if someone told you that they wouldn’t go to this great movie because of concerns they had about stuff that happened during the movie? Would you still not answer questions about the movie? Would keeping the movie secret be more important? Or what if someone looked up the movie and claimed they knew about it? As some of us here have. Again it is better to keep the secret of the movie?

There is a point when I share what I know. No, I would not offer the ending of the movie Sixth Sense. But if someone told that they had been told that it was a “feel good, happy ending” movie. I would tell them that it wasn’t. If they persisted in wanting to know information about the movie, I would tell them about it. I just would. And most people I know are the same way.
 
DebChris said:
On-line brochure:
cursillo-canada.org/page_attachments/0000/0203/Cursillo_in_Christianity_brochure_final.pdfl

“Although there is nothing ‘secret’
in Cursillo, no one can fully explain how
God touches each person in His personal
and unique way.”

Many describe Cursillo as a “mountain top experience.” As I mentioned previously, it’s effect in my life was much more subtle, and therefore difficult to explain or describe.
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maryjk said:
Are you allowed to keep your cell phone/watch/medications? Are you told you must give up any of those? Is this a choice. recommendation or requirement?Seems this depends where you attend. Some take everything and it is required. Some, it isn’t as big a deal

Do you receive little gifts? Palanca? This would include actual gifts, notes from people you don’t know, offerings made in your name, like fasting.Yes, you will. There will be people you don’t know fasting for you. You will receive multiple surprises throughout the weekend.

Do you drive/are you allowed to drive?No, you are not allowed to drive. If I attend, I must get permission to drive.

Does your sponsor attend with you? Meaning, is she/he there at the same location either attending the, although it isn’t a retreat, retreat or teaching/leading the same weekend you will be attending? Will you know people teaching/leading?No your sponsor does not generally attend. But she/he will be there at the end of the weekend.

Are you introduced by name (and clapping) more than once? Is there a group at the end of the weekend that shows up to welcome you? yes

There has been a lot of talk about hugging. Is that a major part of the weekend? Can you just not be a hugger? Yes, but people will think you are weird.

Is the outside of your house decorated while you are gone? depends where you are.

Is the reason you need permission from your spouse because they want that spouse to show up at the end of the weekend?Depends where you are and if your spouse wants to come.

Is the weekend geared in such a way to have very high ups and very low downs? Kind of an emotional roller coaster? Food that is high in sugar and carbs would fall under this question.Sounds like it. At least about the highs and lows. Food may be a different story.

What is with the posters? Not people posting. Making, with markers on poster board, posters.No one has commented on this.
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If there are no secrets, why did it take so many posts and me talking to more than one person to get just this information.

I have never wanted anyone to try to explain their “mountain top” experience. I, and others, simply wanted answers to specific questions. I never imagined it would be this hard.
 
maryjk said:
And if someone told you that they wouldn’t go to this great movie because of concerns they had about stuff that happened during the movie? Would you still not answer questions about the movie? Would keeping the movie secret be more important? Or what if someone looked up the movie and claimed they knew about it? As some of us here have. Again it is better to keep the secret of the movie?

There is a point when I share what I know. No, I would not offer the ending of the movie Sixth Sense. But if someone told that they had been told that it was a “feel good, happy ending” movie. I would tell them that it wasn’t. If they persisted in wanting to know information about the movie, I would tell them about it. I just would. And most people I know are the same way.
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If this person told me, “I’m never going to see that film. I hate Bruce Willis. Movies with kids are terrible. Can you tell me what happens because I can’t win a game of Pop Culture Trivial Pursuit without this knowledge?” I would tell them everything that happens, and totally ruin it for them.

What’s your conclusion from this?
 
maryjk said:
If there are no secrets, why did it take so many posts and me talking to more than one person to get just this information.

I have never wanted anyone to try to explain their “mountain top” experience. I, and others, simply wanted answers to specific questions. I never imagined it would be this hard.
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MaryJK,

People who attend Cursillo are made aware that keeping the specifics of the experience to themselves helps other people who attend have their own unique experience and an open mind. Moreover, all Cursillos are put on by different volunteers and therefore each weekend is different.

Both of these factors are leading very nice, loving Catholics to be reluctant to tell you what happens. What are you not understanding about this? Or rather, what is your legitimate gripe with either of these reasons?
 
Additional websites:

“The goal of the Cursillo movement is to make Christ the prime influence in society. The primary objectives of the Cursillo Movement are to develop in adult Christians a consciousness of their power and mission to become leaders in the work of Christian renewal, and to sustain them as they provide a Christian leaven in civic, social and economic life. This “Christianizing of environments” is the mission of the Cursillo Movement.”
dioceseoflincoln.org/OfficesOrganizations/evangelization_cursillo.aspx

diosavcursillo.org/Documents/National%20Policy%20For%20Cursillo%20Movements.pdf
ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=117700
diosavcursillo.org/Documents/Cursillo_trifold.pdf

The last website is an on-line brochure which includes “Who Should Go to Cursillo” and what to consider before going.
 
maryjk said:
:hmmm:

Could you link to the site? I found the national site, but there really wasn’t much there. Only a short history, options to buy books and to send emails if you are offering prayers/fasting for someone. Oh, and links to state sites and people.
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Yup I can, it wasn’t the National site, it was our Tucson Diocese:

tucsoncursillo.org/pre-cursillo.html

And here’s what it says:

Since the sacraments are important parts of the Catholic Cursillo experience, members of other faiths are encouraged to attend a similar program of their own denomination. Separate weekends are held for men and women, if your candidate is married, it is suggested both spouses participate. Due to the intensity of the weekend, those recently divorced, grieving the loss of a loved one, or hurting for whatever reason should wait for a less stressful time before applying.

And this is from this site,
natl-cursillo.org/mtstfrancis/Witness%20PDFs/The%20Sponsor%27s%20Booklet.pdf

And it says:
Those who **ought **to go.
  • They are individuals who are truly
    the backbone of their environments.
  • They have a deep personality and are
    able to make their own decisions and
    are interiorly motivated.
  • They are mature, responsible,
    concerned about the social
    conditions of our times and they
    have the ability (and desire) to live
    in and for community. In short, they
    are the natural leaders.
    Those who can go.
  • They are simply anyone who is
    eligible to receive the Sacraments.
  • The ordinary Catholic - the one
    trying to live the Catholic life as best
    they know how.**
    Those who cannot or should not go.
  • Those who have a physiological or
    emotional problem.
  • Those who have a deep drinking,
    drug or moral problem.
    If the purpose of the Movement is**
 
I told you that I’d let you know what I thought of Cursillo after I got home. Well, here it is.

LOTS of carbs, very little protein. I’ve not had meat since I was there. LOTS of cookies and brownies.
If you are a day person, you will probably be ok with the sleeping. I was not. I’m kind of assuming that one could get 7 hours at least if one went right to bed at night.

Not too much hugging.
Only had to stand and introduce myself once.

LOTS and LOTS of talks and note taking and poster making and bell ringing.
The talks were good, but the posters were not too much fun after the first one or two.
I only shed tears once so far, the talks were pretty generic for the most part, and very little personal sharing for most of them.

I came home early and would never recommend that anyone go to cursillo unless you do the following:
  1. TAKE YOUR OWN CAR. Yes, you were right about that and I was wrong. I am sorry. You do not want to be stranded at a strange place with no way to get home without causing a ruckus. I know this for a fact.
  2. TAKE YOUR OWN FOOD. Yes, if you want a balanced meal and snacks, take your own food. Yup, I was wrong about this one too, and I am so sorry.
  3. If you don’t take your own foods, BE SPECIFIC on what you can and cannot eat, even if you just don’t like something. TELL them that you need protein at every meal. I said I needed fruit and they had green bananas (can’t eat bananas cause they give me horrible heart burn) and then melon… not water and I only eat water melon. And then there was something today I couldn’t even tell what kind of fruit it was except for the 2 slices of strawberry on top, so I ate the strawberries and pitched the unknown fruits. If you want apples and grapes and pears and watermelon, TELL EM! Don’t expect them to get what you would consider normal fruits!!!
You will get NO free time during the day. It’s all planned, not even time to really do more than go potty and take pills if you need them. And if you take pills, I would suggest that if taking them on time, you must take something to alert you to when it’s time to take a pill, they often forgot to remind our group. And to go back to your room to get and take the meds, you had to have a member of the giving team go with you…??? HELLO? I’m almost 60 and could certainly find my way back to my room and then back to the group again without an escort. Go figure.

When I left, they were sitting with me talking while I waited for my ride and oh so concerned. When there was only one person with me, she became quite different in her speech and attitude towards me, kind of shocked me.

I KNOW I am a control freak and if my insulin levels hadn’t been spiking and dipping and causing havoc with my body and mind, I probably would have stuck it out, but I really needed either food or sleep and I wasn’t going to get either. And rather than let me take an hours nap, they let me go home. BUT they really tried to make me feel guilty, and I didn’t.

During one of our 10 minute potty breaks, one gal stepped outside the door and wanted to stand in the sun and they had a fit about that. They did have all the windows covered with paper. But we did have to walk outside to get to either the dining hall or our rooms, so they couldn’t keep us away from the light 100%.

Yeah, I do think that the lack of watches and time and the strict control is kind of over kill and it would have been much nicer without it.

And actually I think I’m not going to go back to church for a while, I’m kind of blown away about all this and not even sure I want to continue to be a practicing catholic anymore.

So there you have it, my cursillo experience. 🙂
 
gh4,
I’m sorry, your experience of Cursillo was not as you expected. It may have come together for you at the end. In the meantime, look for Enrichment programs offered by your parish. You may be more comfortable with evening programs that only require an hour or 2 at a time instead of a complete weekend.
As I said in my first post, I have been on many retreats over the years, many guided. My experience did not take me outside my comfort zone. I can pretty much eat what is put in front of me as long as it is not artificially sweetened. Other than my blood pressure medication, I carry what I need at all times since it is taken on an emergency basis at the first sign of a problem.
Custillistas continue with what is called the 4th day, in which they meet with others who have completed the weekend to help each other on their spiritual journey.
.
 
DebChris said:
gh4,
I’m sorry, your experience of Cursillo was not as you expected. It may have come together for you at the end. In the meantime, look for Enrichment programs offered by your parish. You may be more comfortable with evening programs that only require an hour or 2 at a time instead of a complete weekend.
As I said in my first post, I have been on many retreats over the years, many guided. My experience did not take me outside my comfort zone. I can pretty much eat what is put in front of me as long as it is not artificially sweetened. Other than my blood pressure medication, I carry what I need at all times since it is taken on an emergency basis at the first sign of a problem.
Custillistas continue with what is called the 4th day, in which they meet with others who have completed the weekend to help each other on their spiritual journey.
.
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Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them. My parish offers nothing and no one wants to be part of anything, I’ve tried and many others have tried.
I’m going to take a break from organized religion for a while.
I’m sure there are others who don’t have the control issues that I do who would enjoy cursillo, but I’ve been a widow for more than 30 years, and cursillo is NOT for those who very strong.
I also think it’s truly aimed at the married couple. And those who have lots of family. And I have neither of those things in my life. Maybe a cursillo that isn’t during lent and which is aimed at the single person would work better for some. With a healthy lecture for the kitchen folks on well rounded meals and how that makes insulin work in our bodies.

I don’t think that the ladies who cook or the ones giving the weekend are evil or trying to do nasty things, but they entire course is probably aimed at control and getting people to give up all control, and for some of us, that’s just not possible.

I attended CHRP years ago and loved it. But this is really nothing like CRHP in content or in intent.
And for those who loved it, I’m happy for you. I just is not for all of us. And I wish I’d known more before I forked out a lot of money to go and then to make it possible to go, dog sitter, etc. Such is life. 🙂

Have a great week.
 
I attended my Cursillo just over two years ago, it changed my life, I continue with 4th day meetings once a week and would not change any of it for anything. Do not hesitate to attend.
ron…
 
ronh4 said:
I attended my Cursillo just over two years ago, it changed my life, I continue with 4th day meetings once a week and would not change any of it for anything. Do not hesitate to attend.
ron…
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This is not me trying to be nasty or mean or anything else. What about those talks and posters could possibly change someone’s life? I just don’t get it. I didn’t get it there, I don’t get it now. The talks were not horrible, but they were like long sermons from the priest at church some said something, most were boring and all were way too long. What was there that could possibly change a life? I just don’t get it. 🙂
 
gh4 said:
Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them. My parish offers nothing and no one wants to be part of anything, I’ve tried and many others have tried.
I’m going to take a break from organized religion for a while.
I’m sure there are others who don’t have the control issues that I do who would enjoy cursillo, but I’ve been a widow for more than 30 years, and cursillo is NOT for those who very strong.
I also think it’s truly aimed at the married couple. And those who have lots of family. And I have neither of those things in my life. Maybe a cursillo that isn’t during lent and which is aimed at the single person would work better for some. With a healthy lecture for the kitchen folks on well rounded meals and how that makes insulin work in our bodies.

I don’t think that the ladies who cook or the ones giving the weekend are evil or trying to do nasty things, but they entire course is probably aimed at control and getting people to give up all control, and for some of us, that’s just not possible.

I attended CHRP years ago and loved it. But this is really nothing like CRHP in content or in intent.
And for those who loved it, I’m happy for you. I just is not for all of us. And I wish I’d known more before I forked out a lot of money to go and then to make it possible to go, dog sitter, etc. Such is life. 🙂

Have a great week.
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gh4 - Wow…it sounds like a terrible experience. Cursillos seem to be run by all manner of groups and it looks like you landed a particularly bad one. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I definitely agree with you re: the nutrition issue…we as Americans have enough dietary issues in general that we don’t need to be forced to eat unhealthy food. Church groups should embrace good stewardship of the body and offer healthy eating choices for events such as this.

My real concern here is what I highlighted above. I realize you have just undergone something (in the name of our Church, no less) that was at best distasteful and at worst potentially traumatic, but I urge, implore, even beg you to reconsider this. Please don’t let the severely misguided actions of a group of extremely fallible people stand between you and the Church. I don’t know if you have the option of attending another parish, but that may be something to consider as well (if you haven’t already).

I know that you are the only one who can make this decision for yourself and that you may have reasons that go beyond what you’ve listed here. I ask you to reconsider anyway. I am praying for you and for those misguided individuals who helped bring you to this decision.

God bless.
 
cjmclark said:
gh4 - Wow…it sounds like a terrible experience. Cursillos seem to be run by all manner of groups and it looks like you landed a particularly bad one. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I definitely agree with you re: the nutrition issue…we as Americans have enough dietary issues in general that we don’t need to be forced to eat unhealthy food. Church groups should embrace good stewardship of the body and offer healthy eating choices for events such as this.

My real concern here is what I highlighted above. I realize you have just undergone something (in the name of our Church, no less) that was at best distasteful and at worst potentially traumatic, but I urge, implore, even beg you to reconsider this. Please don’t let the severely misguided actions of a group of extremely fallible people stand between you and the Church. I don’t know if you have the option of attending another parish, but that may be something to consider as well (if you haven’t already).

I know that you are the only one who can make this decision for yourself and that you may have reasons that go beyond what you’ve listed here. I ask you to reconsider anyway. I am praying for you and for those misguided individuals who helped bring you to this decision.

God bless.
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I have absolutely no desire to go to mass again. If the desire comes back, maybe I will, but I don’t see that happening for a very long time. I suppose time will tell.

Also, I probably should have kept my big mouth shut and stayed and just come home on Sunday and dealt with it, but that’s not my nature. That and the fact that I was running on the ups and downs of the multiple sugar highs and lows and hypo and hyper-glycemic reactions.

Such is life. 🙂 I’ll get over it eventually, but it’s going to be a while. Due to the confidentiality nature of the weekend, I can’t tell you what was said etc. but it wasn’t fun. 🙂
 
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