Cuss words

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I am a 11th grader in a catholic high school. My friends and I use standard cuss words like the b, s, and f words casually, and a lot of us are from large religious families and are active and leaders in religious activities. Often I feel like there is a contradiction in this, but if it’s just with my hs friends, is it fine?

I would especially appreciate a response from a priest or a deacon

Thanks and God Bless
 
Remember that Saint Peter used cuss words in his denial of the Lord. That was before he repented. James also had a lot to say about controlling the tongue:

James 3:5-11
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Even so the tongue is indeed a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold how small a fire kindleth a great wood. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is placed among our members, which defileth the whole body, and inflameth the wheel of our nativity, being set on fire by hell. For every nature of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of the rest, is tamed, and hath been tamed, by the nature of man: But the tongue no man can tame, an unquiet evil, full of deadly poison. By it we bless God and the Father: and by it we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth, out of the same hole, sweet and bitter water?
 
I am a 11th grader in a catholic high school. My friends and I use standard cuss words like the b, s, and f words casually, and a lot of us are from large religious families and are active and leaders in religious activities. Often I feel like there is a contradiction in this, but if it’s just with my hs friends, is it fine?

I would especially appreciate a response from a priest or a deacon

Thanks and God Bless
There was a similar thread posted yesterday.

Some people mentioned their priests calling it a venial sin.

I argued that if you do not use these words in front of people who might be offended and not in a hurtful, offensive or scandalous manner generally, then it is at worst a venial sin, and most probably not a sin at all.
 
So we can just those words as adjectives and it’s OK? It’s wrong. Period.

Peace,
Ed
 
I just got home from our local mall and there were a bunch of high school kids using the “f” word for almost every adjective. Putting any moral aspect aside, I would have to say that they sounded like a bunch of uneducated idiots. Yes, it would be hard to convince anyone that a Christian may talk like that but it would be even harder to convince anyone that you have any smarts. Profanity is a lazy mind expressing itself. Use a bit of discipline and refrain from that kind of language. You will gain respect and reflect the best version of yourself. I teach junior high and high school religious education and I know that cussing doesn’t make bad kids but it surely doesn’t make good kids look great. Think about it. God bless you and keep up the good work since that is why you are here… teachccd
 
I am a 11th grader in a catholic high school. My friends and I use standard cuss words like the b, s, and f words casually, and a lot of us are from large religious families and are active and leaders in religious activities. Often I feel like there is a contradiction in this, but if it’s just with my hs friends, is it fine?
It appears that your feelings are correct. There is a major contradiction. It is never fine. How can we in good faith praise God with the same tongue we use to speak foul and obscene language? Foul language is incompatible with Christianity and it grieves the Spirit.

We are called to be holy and to be set apart from the world. We are called to be light, to set the example, and to evangelize by our words and actions. How can we do that if we are using foul language? No one would take us seriously. We are not only representing ourselves by our words and actions, but we are also representing Jesus and His entire Catholic Church.

We defile ourselves when we speak improperly.

"It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Matthew 15:11

“Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God.” Ephesians 4:29-30

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” Romans 12:1-2

We need to pray and strive for daily conversion. Cussing is not cool or anything to take lightly. And I can tell you from experience that there is great peace, joy, and freedom in cleaning up the lengua. After my initial conversion, I found the whole process of cleaning up very fun and liberating. And it’s really not that difficult to do once the conviction of the Spirit, prayer, the Sacraments, and the desire take hold.

I urge you to start the ball rolling. Clean up your language and exhort your friends to do the same. You’ll love it!

Peace
 
It appears that your feelings are correct. There is a major contradiction. It is never fine. How can we in good faith praise God with the same tongue we use to speak foul and obscene language? Foul language is incompatible with Christianity and it grieves the Spirit.

We are called to be holy and to be set apart from the world. We are called to be light, to set the example, and to evangelize by our words and actions. How can we do that if we are using foul language? No one would take us seriously. We are not only representing ourselves by our words and actions, but we are also representing Jesus and His entire Catholic Church.

We defile ourselves when we speak improperly.
"It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Matthew 15:11

“Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God.” Ephesians 4:29-30

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” Romans 12:1-2
We need to pray and strive for daily conversion. Cussing is not cool or anything to take lightly. And I can tell you from experience that there is great peace, joy, and freedom in cleaning up the lengua. After my initial conversion, I found the whole process of cleaning up very fun and liberating. And it’s really not that difficult to do once the conviction of the Spirit, prayer, the Sacraments, and the desire take hold.

I urge you to start the ball rolling. Clean up your language and exhort your friends to do the same. You’ll love it!

Peace
Very well said!! 👍
 
Okay, so I’ll be the only one who disagrees with the consensus. I believe that the message as intended to be understood by the recipient should be used in determining the legitimacy of an utterance. That is to say, it is the spirit of the message that is important and not the literal content within by means of which it is conveyed.
Exhibit A
It is my sincere wish and desire for maggots to feast upon your festering wounds as you rot in hell for all eternity.
Exhibit B
You are my best friend. I f***ing love you!
I honestly believe that the first example would be mortally sinful even though it uses no taboo language.

And I believe the second example would not be mortally sinful, even though it does use taboo language. That is because it does not express evil - the taboo word is used not to cause offence but is used instead as a means of communication that conveys enthusiasm and trust. Saying this does not defile a person (Mat 15:11). These words are not corrupt (Eph 4:29). There is nothing intrinsically evil about uttering a particular combination of sounds when the message conveyed is positive and expresses a good disposition of the heart.

So whereas I take a less puritanical view, I do believe that social norms must be respected even with regard to the second example and such words must never be used in public or in polite company or among people who are likely to take offence. One does no wrong, however, in avoiding such words altogether.
 
Puritanical?

bible.cc/james/3-10.htm

bible.cc/james/3-11.htm

Inf we are to call ourselves civilized than we should maintain a civil tongue at all times.

Peace,
Ed
You omit James 3:9
With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness.
My first example, Exhibit A, does not use taboo language and is an example of cursing a human being. Exhibit B, the example using a swearword, does not curse anyone or cause offence, hurt or evil to the person at whom it is directed.

In James 3:9-11 we are cautioned against the hypocrisy of professing faith in Christianity and praising God and at the same time cursing - wishing evil - upon our neighbours. This has nothing to do with taboo language but is an admonition against speaking evil against our brethren while at the same time praising God.
 
That is to say, it is the spirit of the message that is important and not the literal content within by means of which it is conveyed.
It is both the spirit of the message and the content which are vitally important in Catholic speech and vocabulary. It is not one or the other.
I honestly believe that the first example would be mortally sinful even though it uses no taboo language.
I agree.
And I believe the second example would not be mortally sinful, even though it does use taboo language.
I’m glad you agree that is taboo language. So why use it?
That is because it does not express evil - the taboo word is used not to cause offence but is used instead as a means of communication that conveys enthusiasm and trust. Saying this does not defile a person (Mat 15:11).
That is the language of the worldly. Do you honestly and sincerely feel that that language is consistent with holiness? Would you feel comfortable speaking like that to kids, priests, nuns, Jesus or Mary?
These words are not corrupt (Eph 4:29).
Yes, they are. Society has deemed them corrupt. Do you believe that there are such things as foul and obscene words?
So whereas I take a less puritanical view, I do believe that social norms must be respected even with regard to the second example and such words must never be used in public or in polite company or among people who are likely to take offence. One does no wrong, however, in avoiding such words altogether.
So now it seems that you know perfectly well what words are bad, but you will hide your feelings and speak ‘good’ in front of certain people, and ‘bad’ in front of others? Is that a bit double-minded? Would you teach a young kid that it’s ok to cuss only in certain situations?

It is saddening that there are Christians who will attempt to justify this very basic Christian teaching against cussing - and Catholic Christians in particular.
Please pray for conversion.

Something to remember: God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Most Blessed Virgin, and all the holy saints and angels in heaven are always watching and listening to us.

Bless you
 
In James 3:9-11 we are cautioned against the hypocrisy of professing faith in Christianity and praising God and at the same time cursing - wishing evil - upon our neighbours. This has nothing to do with taboo language but is an admonition against speaking evil against our brethren while at the same time praising God.
So you are suggesting that praising God, and at the same time speaking with taboo language, is any different than the cursing St. James speaks of?

So it’s ok to praise God one moment, and in the next, speak foul and obscenely? As long as we are not cursing our neighbors?

Something else to keep in mind: it has been revealed throughout history, via possession and exorcism, that is the devil who loves to cuss.

pax
 
Do you honestly and sincerely feel that that language is consistent with holiness?
Yes.
Would you feel comfortable speaking like that to kids, priests, nuns, Jesus or Mary?
Kids, no. They need to learn to use language appropriately first.
Priests & nuns? A priest or nun I was close friends with, yes.
Jesus or Mary? The King and Queen of Heaven? No. But I wouldn’t say, “How’s it going, man?” to Jesus like I might do with my friends either. Using either a slang or a taboo word would be offensive. Similar social rules govern the use of both.
Yes, they are. Society has deemed them corrupt. Do you believe that there are such things as foul and obscene words?
Taboo words are functional units of language. They have a purpose in human linguistic expression or otherwise they wouldn’t exist. The fact that they are taboo adds a richness to human communication because it allows mere words to evoke and effectively convey strong emotional states, which would otherwise be impossible if the use of these words weren’t restricted in some sense. It’s this very fact of restriction that prevents them from becoming bland, everyday words and gives them their emotive power. I am by no means advocating any sort of liberality in their use because then they would lose their purpose.

What makes a word foul or obscene? We as Catholics believe in an objective morality and there is nothing objectively foul about any combination of sounds one may utter. It is the concept that this utterance expresses which may be foul and obscene, and language is such that the meaning a word conveys is dependent on context. “Having a glass of Coke,” “snorting a line of coke,” and “adding coke to a furnace” express three radically different ideas. And it is the ideas that we express and their impact on others that can be good or evil.
So now it seems that you know perfectly well what words are bad, but you will hide your feelings and speak ‘good’ in front of certain people, and ‘bad’ in front of others? Is that a bit double-minded? Would you teach a young kid that it’s ok to cuss only in certain situations?
Those words aren’t “bad.” No evil hides behind the word “sh*t,” for example. In addition to contextual meanings such as “inferior,” “unwell,” “unfair,” its literal meaning is the same as “excrement,” which isn’t a bad word either. It has been arbitrarily decided that it should be a taboo word, which means that there are social rules regarding its acceptable usage, much as there are rules about the usage of slang terms such as “dude,” and “man.”
It is saddening that there are Christians who will attempt to justify this very basic Christian teaching against cussing - and Catholic Christians in particular.
Please pray for conversion.
I am not condoning cussing. I agree that the liberal and inappropriate use of swearwords is very much a sin. Our only point of difference is that I argue that there nevertheless are appropriate uses for these words in human communication.

God bless.
 
Yes.

Kids, no. They need to learn to use language appropriately first.
Priests & nuns? A priest or nun I was close friends with, yes.
Jesus or Mary? The King and Queen of Heaven? No. But I wouldn’t say, “How’s it going, man?” to Jesus like I might do with my friends either. Using either a slang or a taboo word would be offensive. Similar social rules govern the use of both.

Taboo words are functional units of language. They have a purpose in human linguistic expression or otherwise they wouldn’t exist. The fact that they are taboo adds a richness to human communication because it allows mere words to evoke and effectively convey strong emotional states, which would otherwise be impossible if the use of these words weren’t restricted in some sense. It’s this very fact of restriction that prevents them from becoming bland, everyday words and gives them their emotive power. I am by no means advocating any sort of liberality in their use because then they would lose their purpose.

What makes a word foul or obscene? We as Catholics believe in an objective morality and there is nothing objectively foul about any combination of sounds one may utter. It is the concept that this utterance expresses which may be foul and obscene, and language is such that the meaning a word conveys is dependent on context. “Having a glass of Coke,” “snorting a line of coke,” and “adding coke to a furnace” express three radically different ideas. And it is the ideas that we express and their impact on others that can be good or evil.

Those words aren’t “bad.” No evil hides behind the word “sh*t,” for example. In addition to contextual meanings such as “inferior,” “unwell,” “unfair,” its literal meaning is the same as “excrement,” which isn’t a bad word either. It has been arbitrarily decided that it should be a taboo word, which means that there are social rules regarding its acceptable usage, much as there are rules about the usage of slang terms such as “dude,” and “man.”

I am not condoning cussing. I agree that the liberal and inappropriate use of swearwords is very much a sin. Our only point of difference is that I argue that there nevertheless are appropriate uses for these words in human communication.

God bless.
I disagree entirely. I admire the British greatly for their sense of civility and decorum. The United States has slid into a pit whenever cuss words are deemed acceptable. They are not. Ever.

Peace,
Ed
 
From the Apple® computer dictionary: “Profane: relating or devoted to that which is not sacred or biblical; secular rather than religious.”

So, “cussing” or profane language or by whichever term it travels, is worldly and not godly. It debases ands dehumanizes.
 
"po18guy:
So, “cussing” or profane language or by whichever term it travels, is worldly and not godly. It debases ands dehumanizes.
I think most language is worldly and not godly, and so are most of the things we talk about in day-to-day living. I do, however, agree that we should not use language to debase and to dehumanise.
I disagree entirely. I admire the British greatly for their sense of civility and decorum. The United States has slid into a pit whenever cuss words are deemed acceptable. They are not. Ever.
While that is a nice stereotype of the British, I personally do not think that it is entirely accurate these days.

However, even the differences between our two varieties of English serve to illustrate my point that it is not the actual sound formed but the intended meaning that makes a particular utterance sinful.

Should an American assume bad parenting when some British parents do not bat an eyelid when their 3 year old uses the word, “damn”? I know that some Americans are sufficiently offended by the word that they even use “darn” as an alternative, whereas here the word would be less likely to cause offence even in polite circles.

Am I to gasp in horror when an American uses the word, “f*nny,” which has a different and extremely vulgar meaning in British usage? Indeed, a few British people who are still unaware of the American meaning might indeed be confused or even shocked and scandalised. But Americans commit no mortal sin through public use of the word because the intention is different and as far as they are aware, they are following social rules regarding its usage.

Does a dog breeder commit sin by frequently using the word, “b*tch,” which is taboo when used in reference to human beings?

(I note even that this American forum software censored the word “btch" when I wrote it out in full but left "fnny” unchanged, and I censored it myself for the sake of British readers.)

I think we both agree in principle that the use of words to convey an evil meaning is sinful. I believe our difference is mostly idiolectical and for me, these words become empty of any negative connotations in certain contexts, whereas you understand these words in such a way that there is no context, social or grammatical, in which you could use them that they would not express a meaning contrary to Christian virtue.

I cannot therefore say that I disagree with you, because that would be like arguing about whether British English or New Zealand English or South African English or American English is the correct form of English. Having the understanding that any use of these words is insulting to you, I could not use them in your presence in any context, as I know that doing so would cause offence, which is not an effect I intend, and it would be evil if it were. Similarly, I should be appalled should you use these words in my presence, as in your understanding they are always offensive, and so the only way I could understand it is that you were intentionally insulting me.

Despite our differences, I think we can both agree that a Christian’s language should always and everywhere be respectful of his listeners, intended and unintended, and that no evil should ever come out of his mouth.
 
It is amazing how you would think that.
Kids, no. They need to learn to use language appropriately first.
Why not kids too? You just finished affirming that foul language is consistent with holiness. And now you are in essence saying that it is inappropriate. Which is it?
Priests & nuns? A priest or nun I was close friends with, yes.
Somehow I just cannot imagine anyone cussing freely in front of a priest or nun, however close they are to them, and not ever being reprimanded by them for speaking that way.
That would be considered highly disrespectful, close friends or not.
The fact that they are taboo adds a richness to human communication because it allows mere words to evoke and effectively convey strong emotional states, which would otherwise be impossible if the use of these words weren’t restricted in some sense. It’s this very fact of restriction that prevents them from becoming bland, everyday words and gives them their emotive power.
Clean language can evoke far stronger sentiments. It can be far more descriptive. There is no need at all to resort to foul language. Clean language is also harmonious with maturity, humility, virtue, and holiness.

For the rest, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever modest, whatsoever just, whatsoever holy, whatsoever lovely, whatsoever of good fame, if there be any virtue, if any praise of discipline, think on these things.

Philippians 4:8​
No evil hides behind the word “sh*t,” for example.
That is worldy gutter language.
It has been arbitrarily decided that it should be a taboo word
Then so be it. We should follow societal linguistic norms of decency and even go above and beyond them. As Catholics we should always strive to speak properly. When we don’t, we make all Catholics look bad. We hinder our mission. Most of the time, the way we speak is all that we have to show Christ and His Church. Proper language is so vitally important to our mission.

When we make the fact that we are Catholic known, we need to talk the talk and walk the walk. Whether we realize it or not, people will watch the way we talk and act.
I am not condoning cussing. I agree that the liberal and inappropriate use of swearwords is very much a sin. Our only point of difference is that I argue that there nevertheless are appropriate uses for these words in human communication.
It appears that you are speaking contradiction.
God bless.
Pax Christi
 
Hi Merrin.

Well, I’ve thought about the subject and in my previous post where I considered the contextual and linguistic aspects of these words, I think I’ve grown to understand your point of view more. Language is a very fluid thing and so the question hinges on one’s understanding of certain words, but words in and of themselves cannot be objectively evil. I amply demonstrated that in my previous post by the fact that one common and mundane American word is extremely vulgar and offensive in British English.

The way I see it, we agree in principle but our disagreement is based on idiolectical differences and nothing else. What you call “jelly” I call “jam” and what I call “jelly” you call “jello.” We can argue about the meaning of “jelly” until we’re blue in the face and never shall the twain meet, and we will simply have to respect our differences.

And so it is with taboo words. I hope you would agree with me that the word “b*tch” is very offensive when used in reference to a person but that a dog breeder can use the word legitimately and it will be free of all negative connotations. That is to say, its meaning depends on context, and again, it is not the word in itself that is evil but how you use it. And so it is with other words.

We each speak a particular dialect of our particular country or city, and we each have an individual idiolect based on the language used in our immediate surroundings. And quite simply, just like the meanings and rules governing the usage of certain words differ between our dialects, so too, and all the more, do the rules and meanings of words in my idiolect differ from those of your one. And just as I would do well to respect the dialect used in America should I one day go there, and attempt to learn and use American words so as not to be misunderstood, so too should I respect what I understand to be your particular idiolect, where some words are simply unacceptable under all circumstances.

It simply appears that most of the taboo words in my idiolectical understanding of the English language, which is based on the speech that I have grown up with, fall into a category similar to that of the conditionally offensive “b*tch” word and become devoid of negative connotation in certain contexts. And so I was no less surprised by the absolute condemnation these words received than you probably were by my defence of their use in particular contexts. So please understand that my defence of these words stems not from any bad will on my part but simply from an irreconcilable difference of understanding.
 
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