Cutting contact with an elderly relative?

[LoveMercyGrace]

I’ve read through this thread because in my generational -up to this generation - family, there have been separations and disowning and not speaking between this person or another. Each person in my family who stops contact with another has their reason, their hurt… for justification. Each feels they are protecting themselves from something really bad.

I personally see it is as often times we ( me included) are fighting the wrong enemy.
Prayers for others, many prayers…and then getting out of the way so God can do what only He can do.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve read through this thread because in my generational -up to this generation - family, there have been separations and disowning and not speaking between this person or another. Each person in my family who stops contact with another has their reason, their hurt… for justification. Each feels they are protecting themselves from something really bad.

I personally see it is as often times we ( me included) are fighting the wrong enemy.
Prayers for others, many prayers…and then getting out of the way so God can do what only He can do.

You bring up a very important point that deserves clarification.

Let us clarify, then: This is not about having a right to use emotional manipulation–if you do “X”, you’ll never be welcome in MY house again!–or about shunning family members who won’t toe the line for you by cutting off contact when you find them difficult or because they’ve committed an offense against you. It isn’t about giving yourself permission to get your nose bent out of shape at every slight. It isn’t about making holding a grudge into a virtue or a form of self-preservation. No family is going to survive that. Yes, happy families make allowances for the truth that we are all human and that most of us can be real stinkers from time to time. Happy families forgive real offenses, the kind that are not “entitled” to be forgiven because the offender has some kind of excuse. Sometimes, there is no excuse, and yet we show mercy, because it is in everyone’s best interest for us to do that, even when it seems hardest for us personally.

No, this is about dealing with a habitually and seriously negative, manipulative, or abusive person who repeatedly hurts the feelings of others, violates basic social norms of polite behavior and plainly refuses to ever apologize or make any effort at amendment.

If someone has malicious gossip as her primary hobby, you ought to feel free to avoid conversations with her, even if she is your grandmother. If someone gives herself carte blanche to put you down, telling you how incapable or unlovable you are at every turn, you are free to protect yourself by avoiding her, even if it is your mother. If someone can be depended on to set one member of the family against another, it is OK for the family to get wise and refuse to be around her and her toxic ways, at least until she wises up and tries to turn herself around. If someone repeatedly shows herself unreliable, it is OK to stop relying on her. Yes, it may be a cold day in a hot place before you ever hear an apology from a family member. People have their pride, and sometimes all you get is amendment and no apology. In spite of the need to sometimes forgive without any overt bid for reconciliation from the offender, others who are the victims of the offense or their protectors still have the right and sometimes the duty to stop offending behavior by refusing to give the offender any more opportunities to offend again.

You do have a right to expect some pretense of respect from everyone in your life. It is sad that I have to say “even” rather than “especially,” since the family ought to be the cradle of charity, but I will say it, anyway: You have a right to enforce the boundaries of respect for yourself and those under your protection, even from your family. If someone is truly toxic and you have made a good faith effort to stop or re-direct or evade the toxicity without success, it is absolutely OK to “treat them as you would a Gentile or a tax collector,” even if the person is in your family. That means you are still bound to show love when you see them–to be patient, kind, never rude, not self-seeking, not prone to anger, and the rest–but you are not bound to keep them within the circle of those you trust with your emotions. You don’t have to go looking for society with them. You are allowed, even if it is your grandma, to avoid them.

Of course you are. Having children and grandchildren, sister, brothers, and other relatives is not carte blanche to dish out abuse or to play favorites or to sow discord, as you see fit. Of course it isn’t. No one ever has a right to a near occasion of sin. There should be no question about that.

 

[oldgraymare2]

You bring up a very important point that deserves clarification.

Let us clarify, then: This is not about having a right to use emotional manipulation–if you do “X”, you’ll never be welcome in MY house again!–or about shunning family members who won’t toe the line for you by cutting off contact when you find them difficult or because they’ve committed an offense against you. It isn’t about giving yourself permission to get your nose bent out of shape at every slight. It isn’t about making holding a grudge into a virtue or a form of self-preservation. No family is going to survive that. Yes, happy families make allowances for the truth that we are all human and that most of us can be real stinkers from time to time. Happy families forgive real offenses, the kind that are not “entitled” to be forgiven because the offender has some kind of excuse. Sometimes, there is no excuse, and yet we show mercy, because it is in everyone’s best interest for us to do that, even when it seems hardest for us personally.

No, this is about dealing with a habitually and seriously negative, manipulative, or abusive person who repeatedly hurts the feelings of others, violates basic social norms of polite behavior and plainly refuses to ever apologize or make any effort at amendment.

If someone has malicious gossip as her primary hobby, you ought to feel free to avoid conversations with her, even if she is your grandmother. If someone gives herself carte blanche to put you down, telling you how incapable or unlovable you are at every turn, you are free to protect yourself by avoiding her, even if it is your mother. If someone can be depended on to set one member of the family against another, it is OK for the family to get wise and refuse to be around her and her toxic ways, at least until she wises up and tries to turn herself around. If someone repeatedly shows herself unreliable, it is OK to stop relying on her. Yes, it may be a cold day in a hot place before you ever hear an apology from a family member. People have their pride, and sometimes all you get is amendment and no apology. In spite of the need to sometimes forgive without any overt bid for reconciliation from the offender, others who are the victims of the offense or their protectors still have the right and sometimes the duty to stop offending behavior by refusing to give the offender any more opportunities to offend again.

You do have a right to expect some pretense of respect from everyone in your life. It is sad that I have to say “even” rather than “especially,” since the family ought to be the cradle of charity, but I will say it, anyway: You have a right to enforce the boundaries of respect for yourself and those under your protection, even from your family. If someone is truly toxic and you have made a good faith effort to stop or re-direct or evade the toxicity without success, it is absolutely OK to “treat them as you would a Gentile or a tax collector,” even if the person is in your family. That means you are still bound to show love when you see them–to be patient, kind, never rude, not self-seeking, not prone to anger, and the rest–but you are not bound to keep them within the circle of those you trust with your emotions. You don’t have to go looking for society with them. You are allowed, even if it is your grandma, to avoid them.

Of course you are. Having children and grandchildren, sister, brothers, and other relatives is not carte blanche to dish out abuse or to play favorites or to sow discord, as you see fit. Of course it isn’t. No one ever has a right to a near occasion of sin. There should be no question about that.

This is a very well-said and thoughtful post, EasterJoy. You explained it all, better than I ever could.

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

This is a very well-said and thoughtful post, EasterJoy. You explained it all, better than I ever could.

yes, Easter Joy.

 

[Rose71]

A member of my family behaves in a similarly toxic way to your grandmother and I know there is no easy solution. I pray for her every night (which she would no doubt scoff it!) but I have learned to keep any contact brief but polite. I’ve learned to spot when she is going to try to turn the conversation around to become negative and abusive about other family members and I shut her down with a smile and say, “well, I must be off” and leave / say goodbye and hang up the 'phone. I make sure I am never alone with her, because that is when she strikes and tries to sow her poison. She does, on occasion, write long letters describing how awful everyone else is and how she is such a victim and I never respond to them.

I found a charity in the UK called ‘Re-think Mental Health’ very useful. I rang them tentatively, after a really nasty episode and they described her behaviour as classic Borderline Personality Disorder. It was helpful for me to start to see her behaviour as a response to her inability to interact with others in a healthy way and to appreciate that she, herself, was in all probability more hurt by her actions than any of us. It helped me to feel compassion towards her and behave in a way that protected my sanity but also protected her from getting into a situation where she is likely to say or do things that will spread ‘fear and loathing’.

I feel, deep down, she seeks some kind of reassurance and validation that her opinions matter and she is listened to, but she lacks the basic social skills and empathy to fit in with the rest of us, so she uses manipulation and intimidation to get her voice heard and at the same time, inflict hurt on us because she feels we ‘deserve’ a slice of her misery.

I’ve learned that it is possible to pray for her and help her and myself by avoiding situations where conflict could arise. It isn’t always easy and sometimes I find myself being sucked into her dramas, but it has helped me to stop taking it all personally.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

A member of my family behaves in a similarly toxic way to your grandmother and I know there is no easy solution. I pray for her every night (which she would no doubt scoff it!) but I have learned to keep any contact brief but polite. I’ve learned to spot when she is going to try to turn the conversation around to become negative and abusive about other family members and I shut her down with a smile and say, “well, I must be off” and leave / say goodbye and hang up the 'phone. I make sure I am never alone with her, because that is when she strikes and tries to sow her poison. She does, on occasion, write long letters describing how awful everyone else is and how she is such a victim and I never respond to them.

I found a charity in the UK called ‘Re-think Mental Health’ very useful. I rang them tentatively, after a really nasty episode and they described her behaviour as classic Borderline Personality Disorder. It was helpful for me to start to see her behaviour as a response to her inability to interact with others in a healthy way and to appreciate that she, herself, was in all probability more hurt by her actions than any of us. It helped me to feel compassion towards her and behave in a way that protected my sanity but also protected her from getting into a situation where she is likely to say or do things that will spread ‘fear and loathing’.

I feel, deep down, she seeks some kind of reassurance and validation that her opinions matter and she is listened to, but she lacks the basic social skills and empathy to fit in with the rest of us, so she uses manipulation and intimidation to get her voice heard and at the same time, inflict hurt on us because she feels we ‘deserve’ a slice of her misery.

I’ve learned that it is possible to pray for her and help her and myself by avoiding situations where conflict could arise. It isn’t always easy and sometimes I find myself being sucked into her dramas, but it has helped me to stop taking it all personally.

Thank-you for sharing your experiences! I may look into that charity. I have often wondered if there is an underlying mental Illness. She has a sibling who is actually far worse who I am convinced has some sort of mental illness. Her behaviour just breaks any sort of “normal” boundaries!