Cutting people out

[holyrood]

The only details unlearned here are the selfish ideals of those who posess a lack of respect for others -which is obvious by an unwillingness to express these feelings since the posters know they will prove selfish. Selfish!

With all due respect, you are being very judgmental. I think you yourself admitted that perhaps staying away from a relative who’s a child molester is okay. Do you understand child molesting is not the only harmful behavior?

Jesus does not condemn us until death. What gives us the right to justify our hatred?

…pick up your cross and carry it!

You are right that Jesus does not condemn us until death. But the point remains that even with a merciful and forgiving God, we cannot continue to do exactly as we please, and expect He’ll be okay with that forever.

To stay clear of someone does not necessarily involve any hatred at all. Often enough, it’s akin to simply deciding we will not continue to place our hands on a hot burner, and watch our hand become steadily more damaged. Plenty of people on this board stay away from their families, but pray for them daily, and wish them well.

Has someone perhaps cut you out of their life? I’m guessing from your posts that this is a very painful topic to you.

 

[kittyplant]

People who cut family members out are typically arrogant people who never lend a helping hand to anyone but themselves. They’re selfish and greedy, overprotective and sensitive. They have a lack of love and understanding and do not act like Jesus.

Jesus is mercy, forgiveness and selflessness. Until we can be all these things we cannot understand why cutting family out is wrong.

…it’s the same people who would cut God out of their lives if their lot in life was reduced to something less than desireable. Like a spoiled child does.

ok, well no one is talking about any of that here. it sounds like this is a personally sensitive issue for you.

 

[EasterJoy]

i think the spiritual works of mercy are the right answer. i want space too though

In my experience, there are many times when failing to draw any boundaries denying bad behavior is in fact to supply a near occasion of sin. Turning the other cheek does not mean failing to offer any admonishment to the sinner. It means both refusing to be manipulated by violence (falling down or running away when struck) and yet also refusing to return violence in return for violence (hitting back).

Jesus answered him, “If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?” John 18:23

Our Lord was faithful to the duties of his call, and took the suffering that fidelity brought on him. He did not go out looking for chances to get beaten up. He also spent a lot of time in the wilderness, away from the throng that pressed in on him and also from those who sought to harm him. It is OK to leave the battlefield, as needed, when duty allows it.

 

[TEPO]

With all due respect, you are being very judgmental. I think you yourself admitted that perhaps staying away from a relative who’s a child molester is okay. Do you understand child molesting is not the only harmful behavior?

You are right that Jesus does not condemn us until death. But the point remains that even with a merciful and forgiving God, we cannot continue to do exactly as we please, and expect He’ll be okay with that forever.

To stay clear of someone does not necessarily involve any hatred at all. Often enough, it’s akin to simply deciding we will not continue to place our hands on a hot burner, and watch our hand become steadily more damaged. Plenty of people on this board stay away from their families, but pray for them daily, and wish them well.

Has someone perhaps cut you out of their life? I’m guessing from your posts that this is a very painful topic to you.

My family has been so chopped-up by “cutting people out”, we represent the definition of the word. From the bride getting into fistfights at receptions, to guns, divorce and even suspected murder, drugs and money borrowed and never returned and even theft of dead peoples posessions, we are the pinnacle of the definition of ‘cutting people out’.

I can tell you from years of experience, and after people get sick and die that it’s just not worth it. Nothing of this world matters more than the basic unconditional love of other family members. Even I, the most passive and easy going person, have been cut out once. It’s not good. Trust me.

Your family is your tribe. Meet them and greet them, love them unconditionally, and respect them all no matter what. Put yourself in their shoes and forgive.

There is always some good you can find in anyone in your family. Celebrate that goodness. Don’t go to your death bed knowing that you could have done better in this world -you only get one chance, take it seriously.

The best advice I have is to enter every family event without your pride. Leave your feelings at home and laugh even when things aren’t funny. Laughter is contagious!

 

[EasterJoy]

People who cut family members out are typically arrogant people who never lend a helping hand to anyone but themselves. They’re selfish and greedy, overprotective and sensitive. They have a lack of love and understanding and do not act like Jesus.

Jesus is mercy, forgiveness and selflessness. Until we can be all these things we cannot understand why cutting family out is wrong.

…it’s the same people who would cut God out of their lives if their lot in life was reduced to something less than desireable. Like a spoiled child does.

Jesus did not put filial connections ahead of everything else.

*Another of [his] disciples said to him, “Lord, let me go first and bury my father.”
But Jesus answered him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.” * Matt. 8:21-22

Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Luke 12:51-53

Look at the family described by the OP:

is it ok to cut people out? i can forgive them but i’m wanting to stop communicating w people who are unpleasant to be around, cause me stress, spread strife, are unrepentant… i feel like i would be happier if i didnt talk to them anymore. sad but i am tired of the negativity… but they are family…

There is no requirement in the New Testament for a person to seek out the society of an abusive family. The OP’s family is emotionally violent, and unrepentant about it. Our Lord did not require anyone to stick around to be torn to pieces by those who aren’t willing to live in peace, and there is no reason to believe that family is an exception.

It is a good thing to extend corporal and spiritual mercy to those in need of it, but we are not bound to be masochists. We also have to admit it when we present a near occasion of sin to others. How many people do you know who abuse their families in ways they would never dare to abuse their friends or even mere acquaintances? What good does it do for their souls to be a temptation for them to tear someone to pieces? None.

The OP needs only to consider the physical and spiritual welfare of his family. He does not need to stick around an be a provocation for their sin only so that he (or she) can have an opportunity to suffer sins that will not be repented of later. That is only giving his family a shovel to dig themselves into a hole with.

 

[TEPO]

ok, well no one is talking about any of that here. it sounds like this is a personally sensitive issue for you.

I’ve seen the women in my family fight the worst. My wife and my brothers wife got into a slap and hair pull fight at her wedding reception. Wedding dress got ripped… They got over it! Beat that…

We beat that!

 

[TEPO]

Jesus did not put filial connections ahead of everything else.

*Another of [his] disciples said to him, “Lord, let me go first and bury my father.”
But Jesus answered him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.” * Matt. 8:21-22

Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Luke 12:51-53

Look at the family described by the OP:

There is no requirement in the New Testament for a person to seek out the society of an abusive family. The OP’s family is emotionally violent, and unrepentant about it. Our Lord did not require anyone to stick around to be torn to pieces by those who aren’t willing to live in peace, and there is no reason to believe that family is an exception.

It is a good thing to extend corporal and spiritual mercy to those in need of it, but we are not bound to be masochists. We also have to admit it when we present a near occasion of sin to others. How many people do you know who abuse their families in ways they would never dare to abuse their friends or even mere acquaintances? What good does it do for their souls to be a temptation for them to tear someone to pieces? None.

The OP needs only to consider the physical and spiritual welfare of his family. He does not need to stick around an be a provocation for their sin only so that he (or she) can have an opportunity to suffer sins that will not be repented of later. That is only giving his family a shovel to dig themselves into a hole with.

I’m living proof that a torn-up family can be fixed. Is there nothing to be said for that? Things can be repaired if we learn to put our pride aside and laugh together.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m living proof that a torn-up family can be fixed. Is there nothing to be said for that? Things can be repaired if we learn to put our pride aside and laugh together.

I am not following you. You are telling me that your family was repaired because you went to weddings willing to stand by and laugh while the bride got into a fistfight? That is what brought peace to your family? I highly doubt that.

I can see where you would laugh because if you didn’t, you’d have to cry, but you are describing a seriously toxic family with serious spiritual faults that cannot be admitted into Heaven. Is it good to let your family stack offense upon offense and go ever deeper into their enslavement to sin, as if there were no Purgatory and no Hell to fear? Do you think sin has no temporal effects? Why do you think you are better than others because you are willing to wink at your family’s strife, rather than confront them with what your shared baptism demands of you? Why is it good to act as if no one around you ought to fear the just punishment for what they are doing? Where did the Gospel teach you to go around chiding other people because they didn’t stick around to be a near occasion of sin for their tormentors, just because the tormentors are relatives?

Sometimes, the best you can do for someone is to let them know that what they are doing is gravely unacceptable and that it puts their immortal soul in danger of deserved punishment. Yes, you respect the position ever person has as a son or daughter of God, even the person rightfully in prison for his or her crimes, because we are all subject to condemnation. No, you do not stand around at a wedding and get ready to laugh at the inevitable strife, up to and including physical attacks on and by the bride!!!

A Christian is duty-bound to confront other Christians in serious sin with a Christian admonishment. Those who refuse to accept admonishment may rightly be treated as you would a tax collector or a non-believer. That is from the red letters of the Gospel, and it includes relatives. Being willing to stand around and watch those you call brothers and sisters eat each other up as if nothing is wrong is not a spiritual work of mercy. If you watch them do that to others and say nothing, then you, too, may be shirking what your love for both tormentor and victim demands of you, just as surely as if you had simply decided to be elsewhere when the fighting broke out.

If you have tried to shame victims of abuse and crime into sticking around for more of the same without lifting a finger to protect them from their tormentors or obtain justice for them, you may even be complicit in the crimes yourself. If you have done that to any of your relatives, don’t offer yourself congratulations, as if you were a true protector of peace and love.

 

[AClaire11]

OP, you have to make this decision for yourself. I don’t think you’d be asking this question if you didn’t need to seriously consider cutting someone out for your own health. We are obligated to forgive and turn the other cheek, not to be willfully blind.

I’ve personally had to cut two people out of my life: an abusive ex (who professes repentance, but contact with him causes severe PTSD episodes) and my SIL (who is unrepentant and constantly emotionally abusive towards me and DH). Don’t let anyone guilt you into accepting abusers back into your life.

 

[TEPO]

I am not following you. You are telling me that your family was repaired because you went to weddings willing to stand by and laugh while the bride got into a fistfight? That is what brought peace to your family? I highly doubt that.

I can see where you would laugh because if you didn’t, you’d have to cry, but you are describing a seriously toxic family with serious spiritual faults that cannot be admitted into Heaven. Is it good to let your family stack offense upon offense and go ever deeper into their enslavement to sin, as if there were no Purgatory and no Hell to fear? Do you think sin has no temporal effects? Why do you think you are better than others because you are willing to wink at your family’s strife, rather than confront them with what your shared baptism demands of you? Why is it good to act as if no one around you ought to fear the just punishment for what they are doing? Where did the Gospel teach you to go around chiding other people because they didn’t stick around to be a near occasion of sin for their tormentors, just because the tormentors are relatives?

Sometimes, the best you can do for someone is to let them know that what they are doing is gravely unacceptable and that it puts their immortal soul in danger of deserved punishment. Yes, you respect the position ever person has as a son or daughter of God, even the person rightfully in prison for his or her crimes, because we are all subject to condemnation. No, you do not stand around at a wedding and get ready to laugh at the inevitable strife, up to and including physical attacks on and by the bride!!!

A Christian is duty-bound to confront other Christians in serious sin with a Christian admonishment. Those who refuse to accept admonishment may rightly be treated as you would a tax collector or a non-believer. That is from the red letters of the Gospel, and it includes relatives. Being willing to stand around and watch those you call brothers and sisters eat each other up as if nothing is wrong is not a spiritual work of mercy. If you watch them do that to others and say nothing, then you, too, may be shirking what your love for both tormentor and victim demands of you, just as surely as if you had simply decided to be elsewhere when the fighting broke out.

If you have tried to shame victims of abuse and crime into sticking around for more of the same without lifting a finger to protect them from their tormentors or obtain justice for them, you may even be complicit in the crimes yourself. If you have done that to any of your relatives, don’t offer yourself congratulations, as if you were a true protector of peace and love.

What I’m telling you is that in the 90’s, my wife was slapped by my brothers wife for not smiling in the wedding pictures. My wife proceeded to pull chunks of hair out of my brothers wife’s head, which resulted in a wrestling match in the reception hall, between my wife and the bride, which caused a major scene… It caused my wife to be ‘cut out’ of the family.

After 10 or 15 years, the two cook together on holidays and laugh together while playing the card game ‘apples to apples’. Nobody is ‘cut out’ anymore and we’ve learned to put the past in the past. We all have our differences but family is more important.

…today, the next generation of kids all grow and play together. It’s a good thing. Yes we still have traumatic experiences that happen with the kids, but the adults all work together and support each other together, as a family should. If someone needs something, we are always quick to help each other.

Without hope and the willingness to TRY, nothing like this could have ever been accomplished.

 

[holyrood]

I’ve personally had to cut two people out of my life: an abusive ex (who professes repentance, but contact with him causes severe PTSD episodes) and my SIL (who is unrepentant and constantly emotionally abusive towards me and DH). Don’t let anyone guilt you into accepting abusers back into your life.

This is just it. I, too, have literally had EMDR therapy, which is used for post traumatic stress, after years of my family’s antics.

TEPO, it’s wonderful that your family has overcome all this. But it presumably took a willingness on all sides to apologize, forgive, and try again.

All families are not yours. Your family is not all families. You cannot judge all families by what happened in yours.

If your sister in law continued to slap your wife at every family gathering, are you telling me you would seriously make your wife go back, and tell her she just had to keep trying harder, and just set aside her pride and laugh while someone continued to physically assault her???

Easter Joy, I’m very much agreement with all your posts. There is room for love, for praying for others, for a willingness to forgive, but that does not require us to keep getting slapped in the face.

 

[EasterJoy]

What I’m telling you is that in the 90’s, my wife was slapped by my brothers wife for not smiling in the wedding pictures. My wife proceeded to pull chunks of hair out of my brothers wife’s head, which resulted in a wrestling match in the reception hall, between my wife and the bride, which caused a major scene… It caused my wife to be ‘cut out’ of the family.

After 10 or 15 years, the two cook together on holidays and laugh together while playing the card game ‘apples to apples’. Nobody is ‘cut out’ anymore and we’ve learned to put the past in the past. We all have our differences but family is more important.

…today, the next generation of kids all grow and play together. It’s a good thing. Yes we still have traumatic experiences that happen with the kids, but the adults all work together and support each other together, as a family should. If someone needs something, we are always quick to help each other.

Without hope and the willingness to TRY, nothing like this could have ever been accomplished.

I don’t know if you realize this, but getting slapped does not “result” in a wrestling match with the bride at a wedding. If things are so bad that your choice is to assault the bride or leave the wedding, you leave the wedding. A bride who slaps any of her guests is surely not entitled to be surprised that the guest doesn’t want to be around her any more!! Is it some wonder that this mutually egregious behavior caused years of bad feelings? Most families expect better of 12 year olds!

It is good that your wife and your SIL were able to get past their mutual indulgence in outrageous behavior at the worst time and place imaginable. Still, if slapping were still your SIL’s habit, I hope you would not be telling your wife that she ought to put up with it for the sake of family unity. That is just wrong.

What sort of “traumatic experiences” happen with the kids? We are not talking about the kinds of “trauma” that would get these kids expelled if they did it at school, right?

 

[EasterJoy]

Still, TEPO, I will give you this: It is good to be willing to accept someone who wants to bury the hatchet and try again. If you are wrong, yes, you ought to apologize, even if you were not the most wrong. The one who acted the worst is sometimes embarrassed to apologize, and it helps them to receive an apology, when the lack of one gives them an excuse to avoid reconciliation. All these are true, and provided that those who offended are willing to amend their behavior, it is praiseworthy to let go of their past bad acts. We know that if we do so, the same will be done for us. We will not go without reward for our generosity, but will receive the same and more from God. That is absolutely true.

My only objection to your posts is my sense that you are implying that the person who will not stop abusing would be tolerated as if there were no abuse. That is not good for anyone, not even the abuser! But if you are only saying that those who are cut off for bad behavior ought to be welcomed back if they show purpose of amendment, then I can agree with that. We have to learn to get along with each other, before we are fit for Heaven, after all. We have to let go of past hurts, if the person (relative or not) lets go of their “right” to bad actions and shows themselves worthy of trust.

 

[TEPO]

What sort of “traumatic experiences” happen with the kids?

Well, on Easter Sunday my two year old decided to make a sudden leap into my brothers pool while I was standing by the edge with her… She leaned forward, head first, and ended up doing a sort of dive, which landed her well underwater… I jumped in after her wearing my Sunday best, cell phone in my pocket and all.

…course is was about 90 out, so it was good swimming weather after all.

Between my brother, sister and myself there are 15 kids and two grand kids (my sisters). We always have big family holidays. Everyone saw the whole thing. My wife screamed.

 

[TEPO]

My only objection to your posts is my sense that you are implying that the person who will not stop abusing would be tolerated as if there were no abuse. That is not good for anyone, not even the abuser! But if you are only saying that those who are cut off for bad behavior ought to be welcomed back if they show purpose of amendment, then I can agree with that. We have to learn to get along with each other, before we are fit for Heaven, after all. We have to let go of past hurts, if the person (relative or not) lets go of their “right” to bad actions and shows themselves worthy of trust.

Yes. My SIL does things and then acts like it never happened. my wife has often mentioned how strange this kind of behavior is.

…but we just go with it.

Though my SIL does have cystic fibrosis, and has been getting worse through the years. She now takes a lot of pain medication and sees a neurologist because of her constant surgeries… We think she’s just able to handle her history in a ‘different’ kind of way mostly because of all the medication she’s on… Or something. But she’s not crazy. She’s just got mucous issues.

In any case, they’ve BOTH somehow been able to put their past history behind them -my wife included! Perhaps it was just time that helped, and a willingness to ‘let go’ either through my constant persuasion or for the greater good of everyone in the family.

 

[mommy_k]

In reply to the OP, yes it’s ok to cut off family. When do you know it’s OK? I think when the abuse is a pattern in the case of emotional or mental abuse that you are experiencing.

TEPO- I understand where you are coming from, but this abuse that is being talked about is different then some hot tempers flaring at an event. When everyone is equipped to deal with this as in your family - it is fine, as there is no victims, or repeated victimization.
Your family seems lively, but they are not abusive They are all equipped to deal with each other in the same manner, and it is not a repeated pattern against one person.

If one of the wrestlers continued to assault the other person each and everytime they saw them after the event without provacation, and the victim was defenseless, this is abuse. And if no other family stepped in to prevent, told the victim to just ignore it and take it-this is why families get cut off.

 

[TEPO]

In reply to the OP, yes it’s ok to cut off family. When do you know it’s OK? I think when the abuse is a pattern in the case of emotional or mental abuse that you are experiencing.

TEPO- I understand where you are coming from, but this abuse that is being talked about is different then some hot tempers flaring at an event. When everyone is equipped to deal with this as in your family - it is fine, as there is no victims, or repeated victimization.
Your family seems lively, but they are not abusive They are all equipped to deal with each other in the same manner, and it is not a repeated pattern against one person.

If one of the wrestlers continued to assault the other person each and everytime they saw them after the event without provacation, and the victim was defenseless, this is abuse. And if no other family stepped in to prevent, told the victim to just ignore it and take it-this is why families get cut off.

My SIL attacked my wife a second time after the wedding, about 5 years later when my brother was in the army. She pushed my sister out of the way and slapped me in the face trying to get at my wife. Once she got her, I pulled her off.

(I just told my wife about this thread, and she said it’s all because I “forced” her to “bury the hatchet”. )

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

People who cut family members out are typically arrogant people who never lend a helping hand to anyone but themselves. They’re selfish and greedy, overprotective and sensitive. They have a lack of love and understanding and do not act like Jesus.

Jesus is mercy, forgiveness and selflessness. Until we can be all these things we cannot understand why cutting family out is wrong.

…it’s the same people who would cut God out of their lives if their lot in life was reduced to something less than desireable. Like a spoiled child does.

How absolutely awful of you to say something like this. Speechless.

 

[mommy_k]

My SIL attacked my wife a second time after the wedding, about 5 years later when my brother was in the army. She pushed my sister out of the way and slapped me in the face trying to get at my wife. Once she got her, I pulled her off.

(I just told my wife about this thread, and she said it’s all because I “forced” her to “bury the hatchet”. )

Your wife has a support system. You did not tell her"-why did you put your face in SIL sight? You know that makes her mad." This is what an abusive situation would look like, or-SiL showing up everyday to smack your wife, and you telling her-“well today may be the day she changes…” If you responded like this, I doubt your wife would bury the hatchet. Yet this happens all the time in families- it is a verbal way in the OP. Not as dramamatic, but the result is the same as I stated.

Mental, verbal and emotional abuse makes the victim feel like they alone are the guilty ones. That somehow they deserve the ill treatment…

I am all for keeping families intact-but not at the expense of a members physical and emotional well being. It is up to the OP to decide if the treatment is severe enough to cut ties-but sometimes it is necessary.

 

[Xantippe]

I think TEPO is going too far with the “family uber alles” stuff, but I do sympathize with this:

“My family has been so chopped-up by “cutting people out”, we represent the definition of the word.”

There’s one side of my family where not talking to people is almost a competitive sport. And the sad thing is, there really isn’t a lot of family available to not talk to. My husband and I were both on the receiving end of a 10-year sentence of silence (this was for getting married without approval and without telling that side of the family). I have to say, while it wasn’t pleasant, I think the person doing it probably suffered way more than we ever did from it.

I would say that there are three possible zones for family interactions: normal contact, limited contact, and no contact. I don’t have anybody in the no contact list, but I do have a couple of “limited contact” relatives whose company I do not enjoy. I do not go out of my way to spend time with those people.