U
uglygal
Guest
God Is - whether you have a book or not.
- Status
U
uglygal
Guest
I have finished day 6 of the Novena to St Therese. All is going well
H
Hellisreal
Guest
Is your God the Father the God of Issac, Moses, and Abraham?
Or not?
Or not?
U
uglygal
Guest
He is the One and Only God. May I ask where these questions are going? because they are deviating far from the issue of clergy abuse and catholic catechesis which I raised with this topic.
Also are there any ministries / organizations in the church to deal with such things (ie: spiritual help for victims)? I asked before but didn’t get an answer, so perhaps the question got lost amidst the discussion. Thanks.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
Thank you. So if He is the God of Issac, Moses and Abraham, then you do accept the Hewbrew Scriptures correct?
Its not deviating since you have claimed damaged faith.
I am simply trying to see what your faith is based in now, to dialouge since you are so mysterious about your faith.
I pray your God will heal you.
I simply am asking who your God is?
Is this a problem for you?
U
uglygal
Guest
By Hebrew scripture do you mean the OT? Even so, I told you earlier I’m not a christian and do not use the Bible, so why do you keep bringing up the Bible?
You speak of my God as if He is mine alone - He is Your God too, He is the God of All and everyone.
I am not mysterious about my faith. If you looked in my prof you would see that my faith is God. That is my faith. My faith is not a scripture or a dogma or an institution, but it is God. God is my faith and God *is *Love. My God is my Father, the Ever-Glorious Lord who didn’t let me pass the gates of hell though I deserved it by my sin and suicide. The Lord who showed me His Glorious Heart and told me to imitate it. The God for whom my heart sings everyday of my life.
You speak of my God as if He is mine alone - He is Your God too, He is the God of All and everyone.
I am not mysterious about my faith. If you looked in my prof you would see that my faith is God. That is my faith. My faith is not a scripture or a dogma or an institution, but it is God. God is my faith and God *is *Love. My God is my Father, the Ever-Glorious Lord who didn’t let me pass the gates of hell though I deserved it by my sin and suicide. The Lord who showed me His Glorious Heart and told me to imitate it. The God for whom my heart sings everyday of my life.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
Do you have much bible knowledge at all to even ask that?
Do you claim to have a god that is not written about in any kind of scripture?
.
Wonderful. You have described many different belief systems in this statement. However, not any one clearly.
Glory be!
However, you are not telling us anything about your god or who he is.
You cant even tell us if you have scriptural support for a god.
Lets think about this.
How would you be able to share your god with others?
What sources would you use?
U
uglygal
Guest
Is Christ and Church separate or one? I was taught they are one. Much like was quoted to me in another topic thread;
Can someone clarify this for me?
Thankyou
Yet I have also been told here to make such a distinction that the acts of the church are not the acts of Christ and to not attribute the acts of clergy to Christ.
Can someone clarify this for me?
Thankyou
H
Hellisreal
Guest
The Christian POV is, that Christ is the bridegroom of the Church.
There are other POV’s that are still compatible with the God of Issac, Moses, and Abraham.
Namely, the Jewish belivers, who were first with God, and have a covenant with God
And always did. And will forevermore. God is not a liar.
For God never revokes his Covenants.
The covenant stands.
Is this the first time you heard this?
You sound new.
Yet I have also been told here to make such a distinction that the acts of the church are not the acts of Christ and to not attribute the acts of clergy to Christ.
Can someone clarify this for me?
Thankyou
U
uglygal
Guest
I asked it because they are usually called the OT or Torah / Tanakh, not the Hebrew scriptures.Do you have much bible knowledge at all to even ask that?
It is you who are impliedly claiming that God must be in a scripture to be true. I disagree with this. I claim that God is true regardless if He is written about on pieces of paper - the existence or non-existence of scripture is immaterial to whether He exists and is. Many God’s are written about on pieces of paper and Holy Scriptues - the Bible, The Koran, The Avesta, Vedas - do all these exist
I told you that God is Love. That is telling you everything.
With life, with love - pieces of paper do not convert people, neither do they share faith - people do by living example, much like abuse by “holy” people destroys faith, a topic you are constantly avoiding
U
uglygal
Guest
Yes, this is the first time I have heard that the Mosaic covenant still stands and was not ended upon the beginning of the New Covenant.
I will not dialogue / discuss with you anymore because I feel in the way you write to me that your intent towards me is unfriendly. If I am wrong I apologize.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
You are so right. Its Jesus and Mary to blame for your damaged faith.
I dont know why I even bothered to ask what kind of god led you to think such things, or to have the nerve to ask you where you can prove your god to me.
I must take your very word on all this, seeing how damaged you are.
And that your god is one to teach you that we must forget Jesus and Mary.
And believe they torment you.
I dont know why I even bothered to ask what kind of god led you to think such things, or to have the nerve to ask you where you can prove your god to me.
I must take your very word on all this, seeing how damaged you are.
And that your god is one to teach you that we must forget Jesus and Mary.
And believe they torment you.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
Ignorance is bliss.
The CCC is online.
Check it out, even if Jesus and Mary torment you.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
And thank you for reporting me too.
I love a good penance!
I love a good penance!
U
uglygal
Guest
I didn’t report youAnd thank you for reporting me too.
I love a good penance!
But I see my suspicions were correct.
C
Coming_Home_1
Guest
I for one, do not know of any, but I have never looked for them. There has got to be something out there. Please know that although Jesus is the head of the Church, and the Church is the body of Christ, people still have their own free will and make mistakes and sin. That is why we have the sacrament of confession, because we understand that although we are trying to live like Christ and become more and more like him everyday, sometimes we fall into sin because of our free will. It is not Jesus who causes us to sin but it is Jesus who picks us up again! The things that people did to you were awful and you have a right to be angry! It is sin that has caused all of this, not Jesus, the Church or Mary or anything else! Sin grieves God so much which is why Jesus came to die on the cross! He would have still died on the cross if you were the only one to save. Please read the gospels about Jesus and how much he loves you!
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest.” Matthew 11:28
J
JRKH
Guest
uglygirl and all,
I have to say that the right answer at the wrong time will make it wrong answer. In my opinion, I think it is best to slow down in discussion everything at once. There are many things to discuss here and if we don’t take time, it will end up more hurts than understanding.
In the original post of uglygirl on this thread, there are so many issues to discuss:
12…maybe more…
- being taught to hate yourself
- years with no relationships
- how to be hated by God and hate yourself for been born.
- being taught wrong
- “I feel assaulted by the christian religion and church.”
- “I am afraid of novenas”
- the saints and Mary.
- “I’m afraid of Jesus and do not trust Him.”
- “The only one I trust and love is God the Father”
- I have real difficulty dissociating Him [Jesus]
- pain and abuse and false hope.
Since you are working on the Novena to St. Therese (which is number 6 from the above list), let’s focus on this now. The rest will be dealt with one at time later.
I am doing a Novena to the Holy Spirit and in the intention was to include you in this novena, uglygirl.
God bless.*
Water -
Thank you for this summary.
It’s good that we try to stay on target here.
James
J
JRKH
Guest
Beautiful Spirit,
After catching up on the thread this AM I have been thinking of so many things I would like to say to try to help.
First - I believe God is truly with you. His Love shows through in the way that you communicate. Even though some others have become frustrating, you have maintained your peace and responded in charity.
Second - I applaud your definition of God being bigger than the Bible. We seem to think alike in this. “GOD IS – the rest is details”. After all when Moses asked God’s name he was told “I Am That I Am” and Moses did not have any scriptures to check this against. He had to take it on faith. Just as we all do.
Third – If you Goggle “Clergy Abuse Support” you will find some websites that may be of help.
Fourth – I would like to try and address the Jesus and the Church thing. This will be a very poor example and can be easily shot full of holes but it is the best I can come up with so please bear with me.
Let us start with the equation:
God to Jesus to the Church = God to G. Washington to the USA.
God is the head of the Church through Jesus who established the Church
God is the head of the US (In God we Trust) through G.W. who established and led the US.
The Church is governed by a constitution and laws (Bible, CCC, etc.
The US is governed by a constitution and laws. (Constitution, criminal and civil code etc.)
The Church is made up of millions of individuals and governing officials.
So is the US.
Not everyone in the Church obeys church teaching and law. This includes those in a postion of authority.
Not everyone in the US obeys the laws of the land. This includes those in a position of authority.
Now – because I am victimized by someone in civil authority, or because I see evil in the US and feel I have not gotten a fair shake should I blame G. Washington? Should I blame God in whom we as a nation trust?
As I said earlier this is a poor example, but it serves to illustrate that the Church is comprised of many individuals, both good and bad just as our country is. While we can wail, lament, and mourn the evils that exist in our country we must hold fast to the ideals set forth by the founders of the nation. The same is true in the Church.
There are ideals expressed by Jesus in the Gospels that stand as glorious beacons in the night. The most basic of which you have already nailed.
Jesus was once asked by a lawyer which is the greatest commandment. Jesus responded by asking, “What is the first commandment.”
The Lawyer responded, “Thou shalt love the Lord your God with your Whole Heart…”
Jesus then said, “You are right. This is the first and greatest commandment and the second is like it. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these two commandments are based all the others and all of the law.”
Another great teaching is the Lord’s prayer. Too many people recite it without knowing what they are actually saying.
This is why I earlier recommended that you read the Gospels, particularly the synoptic Gospels. (Mathew, Mark, and Luke). Forget everything else, just the Gospels. Don’t read them from the perspective of your past, but rather read them in the same way you would read any other faith text. Look at how Jesus lived and taught.
Whatever other conclusions you draw from that in regard to Christianity, “The Church” etc. I believe you will see that it was not Jesus who was the cause of your torment.
May God continue to Bless you on your Journey.
James
After catching up on the thread this AM I have been thinking of so many things I would like to say to try to help.
First - I believe God is truly with you. His Love shows through in the way that you communicate. Even though some others have become frustrating, you have maintained your peace and responded in charity.
Second - I applaud your definition of God being bigger than the Bible. We seem to think alike in this. “GOD IS – the rest is details”. After all when Moses asked God’s name he was told “I Am That I Am” and Moses did not have any scriptures to check this against. He had to take it on faith. Just as we all do.
Third – If you Goggle “Clergy Abuse Support” you will find some websites that may be of help.
Fourth – I would like to try and address the Jesus and the Church thing. This will be a very poor example and can be easily shot full of holes but it is the best I can come up with so please bear with me.
Let us start with the equation:
God to Jesus to the Church = God to G. Washington to the USA.
God is the head of the Church through Jesus who established the Church
God is the head of the US (In God we Trust) through G.W. who established and led the US.
The Church is governed by a constitution and laws (Bible, CCC, etc.
The US is governed by a constitution and laws. (Constitution, criminal and civil code etc.)
The Church is made up of millions of individuals and governing officials.
So is the US.
Not everyone in the Church obeys church teaching and law. This includes those in a postion of authority.
Not everyone in the US obeys the laws of the land. This includes those in a position of authority.
Now – because I am victimized by someone in civil authority, or because I see evil in the US and feel I have not gotten a fair shake should I blame G. Washington? Should I blame God in whom we as a nation trust?
As I said earlier this is a poor example, but it serves to illustrate that the Church is comprised of many individuals, both good and bad just as our country is. While we can wail, lament, and mourn the evils that exist in our country we must hold fast to the ideals set forth by the founders of the nation. The same is true in the Church.
There are ideals expressed by Jesus in the Gospels that stand as glorious beacons in the night. The most basic of which you have already nailed.
Jesus was once asked by a lawyer which is the greatest commandment. Jesus responded by asking, “What is the first commandment.”
The Lawyer responded, “Thou shalt love the Lord your God with your Whole Heart…”
Jesus then said, “You are right. This is the first and greatest commandment and the second is like it. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these two commandments are based all the others and all of the law.”
Another great teaching is the Lord’s prayer. Too many people recite it without knowing what they are actually saying.
This is why I earlier recommended that you read the Gospels, particularly the synoptic Gospels. (Mathew, Mark, and Luke). Forget everything else, just the Gospels. Don’t read them from the perspective of your past, but rather read them in the same way you would read any other faith text. Look at how Jesus lived and taught.
Whatever other conclusions you draw from that in regard to Christianity, “The Church” etc. I believe you will see that it was not Jesus who was the cause of your torment.
May God continue to Bless you on your Journey.
James
K
kentuckyliz
Guest
Well, I’m totally confused. I don’t know why you would seek spiritual help from the same church that abused you and whose beliefs you reject.
Why not seek spiritual help from your new faith community?
I don’t think it would be a bad idea to seek help from a psychiatrist or psychologist, either, even secular, because your boundaries and thinking are very confused, being unable to distinguish persons from one another. You may not feel that you need it and protest that you are fine, but that is often true of people who need psychiatric/psychological help. I am only suggesting this because I am a licensed professional counselor and a qualified mental health provider and am seeing some red flags here. Such as, going to a catholic apologetics forum seeking psychological or spiritual help. Some very odd thinking and behavior here.
I do wish you well. I wish we had better, easier answers for you…but I don’t perceive SNAP as offering the kind of help you’re looking for. Again, seeking help in your new faith community and from a psychiatrist or psychologist would be the best route.
I hope now that you have broken away from your abusers and it’s just you and God, that you have a sinless life full of sunshine and no problems and no one ever sins against you again. It didn’t work out that way for me, but we can all hope, right? :hug3:
Why not seek spiritual help from your new faith community?
I don’t think it would be a bad idea to seek help from a psychiatrist or psychologist, either, even secular, because your boundaries and thinking are very confused, being unable to distinguish persons from one another. You may not feel that you need it and protest that you are fine, but that is often true of people who need psychiatric/psychological help. I am only suggesting this because I am a licensed professional counselor and a qualified mental health provider and am seeing some red flags here. Such as, going to a catholic apologetics forum seeking psychological or spiritual help. Some very odd thinking and behavior here.
I do wish you well. I wish we had better, easier answers for you…but I don’t perceive SNAP as offering the kind of help you’re looking for. Again, seeking help in your new faith community and from a psychiatrist or psychologist would be the best route.
I hope now that you have broken away from your abusers and it’s just you and God, that you have a sinless life full of sunshine and no problems and no one ever sins against you again. It didn’t work out that way for me, but we can all hope, right? :hug3:
S
St_Gabriel
Guest
Hi Uglygal,
I’ve been reading the above posts (although I missed the last few) I’ll get to them later. But for now, I think you need to take a deep breath and continue to take small steps. From what I can see, you are making great progress in your spiritual life even if you still loath the Church. Forgiveness is a huge step and if you can do it (or when you do it), you will feel a huge weight lifted from your shoulders. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you.
As others have mentioned, a good therapist might help you out with the self-hate and depression although you may not feel any of it now but it’ll do you some good to have someone with experience to talk to about these things. Pray for a good friend to help you through it.
Yes it is true that Jesus set up the Church and He is the head. You know that He chose 12 disciples to be his apostles. They were called to guide the Church. But remember, 1 of the men that He chose was a devil. (The one who betrayed Him.) Today there are many Judus’s in our world and in the Church who betray us. Some may turn a blind eye for their own reasons however unjust, but I know that the Lord sees everything and He is just. Trust in Him and keep walking forward. Leave the past behind.
I’ve been reading the above posts (although I missed the last few) I’ll get to them later. But for now, I think you need to take a deep breath and continue to take small steps. From what I can see, you are making great progress in your spiritual life even if you still loath the Church. Forgiveness is a huge step and if you can do it (or when you do it), you will feel a huge weight lifted from your shoulders. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you.
As others have mentioned, a good therapist might help you out with the self-hate and depression although you may not feel any of it now but it’ll do you some good to have someone with experience to talk to about these things. Pray for a good friend to help you through it.
Yes it is true that Jesus set up the Church and He is the head. You know that He chose 12 disciples to be his apostles. They were called to guide the Church. But remember, 1 of the men that He chose was a devil. (The one who betrayed Him.) Today there are many Judus’s in our world and in the Church who betray us. Some may turn a blind eye for their own reasons however unjust, but I know that the Lord sees everything and He is just. Trust in Him and keep walking forward. Leave the past behind.
- Status