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Riddle_me_this
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Oh sorry, no I don’t.
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Maryann_C
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I take it your answer is NO (since you dance around it) you do not trust as reliable every translation of the Bible that is currently on the Christian market today.
You are very wise…just like the Apostles, early Church fathers and the Catholic church through to this day SOMEONE has to make sure that when God’s Holy Word is translated, that translation does not twist or distort God’s Word because the eternal destiny of people’s souls is at stake.
Jesus didn’t ask Peter to “feed my sheep” just for fun. The shepherd his to defend the flock with his life.
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Riddle_me_this
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Ah but where in the bible does it say that it is acceptable to pray to anyone other than God? In fact in hundreds of verses it says just the opposite. God is a jealous God and demands our complete devotion.
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Maryann_C
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There is alot here and I am so glad you trusted us enough to open up, that is the real reason for CAF a place where people can honestly seek answers to their questions not a place for people to attack… so back off everyone else unless you wish to be constructive !Mary Anne I am very open to discussion and just recently was very near converting to Catholicism. After much study I just couldn’t do so with a clear conscience. I look forward to seeing many Carholic saints in heaven I just simply do not agree with so many catholic doctrines (most importantly catholic authority). First ,let me say in another post you said that for Protestants all you have IS the Bible so you have to essentially figure it out yourself. In a way - especially today your are right and I understand where you are coming from. This was not however the intent of the original ‘protestants’ Luther did not originally intend to break with the Church , I don’t want to go any further with this because we could totally loose the thread but my point is - Church history is very important. You are absolutely right NOT to become a Catholic until you can do so with a clear conscience to be able to ascent to everything that you would have to. For me personally after one thing only was standing but all other road blocks had fallen and God had answered prayers, I had to accept the last hurdle by faith.
Forgive me but I just don’t see any great attraction to catholic claims of infallibility. I think that you misunderstand - as I did- the idea of ‘Church infallibility’ . It does NOT mean that the Pope is right and must be believed ALL the time when he speaks. Let us take Mary for example- oh boy she had to go there!- yes… to be good Catholic you do not have to pray one Rosary ever Think on how many times Catholics have taught heresy.With all due respect this is merely the opinion of protestants so let us stick with fact and not arguable opinion And we are told "no that’s ok because the church hadn’t yet defined as dogma that certain thing so they were allowed to think that way"I have never heard the Church teach that one can believe known heresy and still remain in communion with the Church. Imagine you had a guide who was leading you through a trail and you came to a fork in the road. If your guide said “many people have come and gone both ways and reached their destination… But now that I’ve told you it’s THIS way if you had gone THAT way you surely would be lost.” The point here is that you have a guide- Jesus OUR guide NEVER said there was more than one way to reach our desired destination, He said that HE is the way and that the way was NARROW not multi pathed Rocky and the point is one has to then take ALL that He says together not pick and choose what to believe in. Jesus said that we must ‘pick up our cross and follow him’ , He prayed for his Church to be ONE as He and the father are one- how can we be one and yet take different paths?
Mary could you please explain to me why you think catholics are so united? because of Jesus- it is called a communion- Paul said “we partake of One cup”, “we are one body” Alan just said all you have to do is confess that you are a Christian and then you go to heaven! I will let Alan explain what he meant but I do not think your interpretation is exactly the sameHow many Catholics would agree with that? There are only 7 verses interpreted by the catholic church “infallibly”. How have you been relieved of “making your own interpretation”. The Church as a whole is moving towards open theism. Really? what exactly do you mean by ‘open theism’ and please make sure that you do not use the term ‘the church’ when perhaps one person or one sector of the Church has claimed somethingI’ve heard many Catholic priests and theologians say things like "atheists can go to heaven, Muslims can too, etc etc.they say this in a sense using the same argument as you tried to make with the ‘ignorance of scripture is bliss’ general idea of your OP if this becomes dogma will you stay in the Church?I trust the Holy spirit will not allow the Church Magisterium to lead us into error- this is what Jesus promised us. That he would never leave us alone. This is not blind faith BUT it is the child like faith that Jesus called us to have. Will you just follow any where it leads you? I would LOVE to have an infallible guide Mary but I just don’t see it. So ask yourself , did Jesus intend for you to be walking trough the dark jungle with all the wild animals ready to jump you if you fall of the safe path, with a map that you are not really sure you are reading right?
Sorry I am not good at the quote break up thing so I have tried to answer in your quote , my thoughts in purple.
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Maryann_C
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We don’t pray to others… let me ask you this; If I had cancer and asked you to pray for me would you or would you tell me " you are on your own mate pray to God yourself" ?
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Maryann_C
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Well why not?
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Maryann_C
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Sorry folks it is me bed time- will have to continue tomorrow after work. feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more one on one.
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robwar
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the Catholic Church finalized the canon of scripture used today. The Catholic church has been around since Jesus Christ. why are you on this site if all you want to do is make fun of and mock Catholics?
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robwar
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We ask saints for their intercession just like you would ask anyone else to pray for you. they are alive before the Lord. Why don’t you look at Revelations where the scene is described that those in heaven are standing before the throne of God with bowls of incense that are the prayers of those on earth. You don’t know your Bible very well.
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robwar
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inaccurate translations that were translated not true to original language but twisted to prove someone’s point such as the JW Bible.
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robwar
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From what you are writing on here I take it that you have complete devotion so that is why all you do it mock other’s points when they bring up facts from history and scripture. I feel sorry for you. So someone who is devoted to God can come on a Catholic forum and mock and make fun of others, have nothing to offer about why they believe what they believe. Really,
I’ll pass on your so called complete devotion to God.
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Trebor135
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The issue might be veneration of the saints.
Here are a couple passages in the Old Testament showing people receiving special honour without any idolatry being involved:
From Genesis chapter 23:
[7] Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites, the people of the land.
[8] And he said to them, “If you are willing that I should bury my dead out of my sight, hear me, and entreat for me Ephron the son of Zohar,
[9] that he may give me the cave of Mach-pe’lah, which he owns; it is at the end of his field. For the full price let him give it to me in your presence as a possession for a burying place.”
From 1 Chronicles chapter 29:
[9] Then the people rejoiced because these had given willingly, for with a whole heart they had offered freely to the LORD; David the king also rejoiced greatly.
[10] Therefore David blessed the LORD in the presence of all the assembly; and David said: “Blessed art thou, O LORD, the God of Israel our father, for ever and ever.”
(His words addressed to God continue for some lines.)
[20] Then David said to all the assembly, “Bless the LORD your God.” And all the assembly blessed the LORD, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads, and worshiped the LORD, and did obeisance to the king.
[21] And they performed sacrifices to the LORD, and on the next day offered burnt offerings to the LORD, a thousand bulls, a thousand rams, and a thousand lambs, with their drink offerings, and sacrifices in abundance for all Israel;
[22a] and they ate and drank before the LORD on that day with great gladness.
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Riddle_me_this
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In Italy Jesus is the 7th personage to be prayed to and God is less than that. I think that is not only wrong but very dangerous.
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Riddle_me_this
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Hmm sorry I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. I just read in Matthew that we should pray to God through Jesus Christ not through a Saint or anyone else for that matter. Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.
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Trebor135
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Why have you not commented on the Bible passages I cited?
Also, on what source do you base the claim that Italians give Jesus such short shrift?
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Riddle_me_this
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I guess I look at the saints as messengers but if I were sending a message to my father through Canada Post I wouldn’t start off by saying Dear Canada Post. You know what I am trying to get at here?
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pablope
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Firstly…are you aware of the meaning and use of the word “prayer” to a catholic and protestant?
As for your bible verse…Job 42…God actually commands someone to be prayed for…7 After the Lord had said these things to Job , he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. **My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer **and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; **and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer. **
And James 5…13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and **pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. **
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Trebor135
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Please give us the chapter and verse for Christ’s statement that Christians may not request the intercession of St. Mary and the other saints.
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Riddle_me_this
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I saw it in a documentary. Sorry what scriptures. I have been on multiple threads and the notifcation process on this site needs updating.
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Riddle_me_this
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Oh sorry you want Christ to tell you all the people you can’t pray to?
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