Dante Alighieri

[EphelDuath]

Why exactly is this gentleman admired within the Catholic Church? He composed beautiful poetry, doubtlessly, but his theology is very far removed from Catholic doctrine.

Pope Benedict XV says this about him: “Among the many celebrated geniuses of whom the Catholic faith can boast who have left undying fruits in literature and art especially, besides other fields of learning, and to whom civilization and religion are ever in debt, highest stands the name of Dante Alighieri, the sixth centenary of whose death will soon be recorded. Never perhaps has his supreme position been recognized as it is today. Not only Italy, justly proud of having given him birth, but all the civil nations are preparing with special committees of learned men to celebrate his memory that the whole world may pay honour to that noble figure, pride and glory of humanity.” - In Praeclara Summorum

I don’t get it.

 

[MarcoPolo]

What specifically in his theology is so far removed?

 

[EphelDuath]

For one, that Julius Caesar was designated by God to rule the world, and therefore that Brutus was one of the worst traitors in history for assassinating him. There’s so many issues with divine providence in that.

 

[Cristiano]

Dante Alighieri was never a theologian. He was just a poet and heavily involved in the Florentine politics of the time. The “Divina Commedia” isn’t really a theological book, but it is a masterpiece.

 

[MarcoPolo]

For one, that Julius Caesar was designated by God to rule the world, and therefore that Brutus was one of the worst traitors in history for assassinating him. There’s so many issues with divine providence in that.

In a closer reading of your Benedict quote, he praises Dante for his literary legacy.

 

[Moscati]

The quote says Dante left “undying fruits in literature and art”. The Pope doesn’t say anything about theology. Dante was definitely not a theologian, though I’d say on the whole he was pretty orthodox. Just political.

i think “civilization and religion” are in debt to him because he created something beautiful, and beauty can bring us closer to God.

 

[EphelDuath]

In a closer reading of your Benedict quote, he praises Dante for his literary legacy.

Yes, in the context of a Papal encyclical; not just the Pope’s personal praise. Would you take the same reaction if the next Pope wrote an encyclical praising, say, Oscar Wilde for his literary abilities?

 

[Hesychios]

Why exactly is this gentleman admired within the Catholic Church? He composed beautiful poetry, doubtlessly, but his theology is very far removed from Catholic doctrine.

Pope Benedict XV says this about him: “Among the many celebrated geniuses of whom the Catholic faith can boast who have left undying fruits in literature and art especially, besides other fields of learning, and to whom civilization and religion are ever in debt, highest stands the name of Dante Alighieri, the sixth centenary of whose death will soon be recorded. Never perhaps has his supreme position been recognized as it is today. Not only Italy, justly proud of having given him birth, but all the civil nations are preparing with special committees of learned men to celebrate his memory that the whole world may pay honour to that noble figure, pride and glory of humanity.” - In Praeclara Summorum

I don’t get it.

He definitely had his Catholic Faith nailed down properly. He was no theologian (as has already been said) so no one should be using the Divine Comedy as a catechism . As a layman he seems to have been very knowledgeable and probably devout. The entire work is basically an act of intercession.

Of course, the Divine Comedy is a fantasy and should be taken that way.

He was writing for the public, as a form of entertainment actually, but that public was mainly Catholic and what he wrote resonated with them, even inspired them. His description of Purgatory is really a message of hope and salvation, even I can appreciate it.

Dante also had plenty of strong opinions, politically. For instance, he greatly admired the emperor Justinian (who came to Italy as a conqueror), and his law code. Still, he was a Guelph, which was the party which supported the power of the Popes in Italy over and against the power of the Holy Roman emperors.

He also consigned more than one Pope to hell, most notably Boniface VIII.

His writing is a fascinating look into the Europe of 1300AD, plus the basic late medieval Christian faith and a sense of justice and mercy under God. I have thought it would make a great movie, or even a trilogy to rival Tolkeins’ Lord of the Rings, but I doubt the cinema would do the Paradiso justice, even with modern digital techniques.

College courses have been built around the Divine Comedy. The three books (even in English translation) are high art.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Yes, in the context of a Papal encyclical; not just the Pope’s personal praise. Would you take the same reaction if the next Pope wrote an encyclical praising, say, Oscar Wilde for his literary abilities?

Not necessarily because I think Dante’s legacy to this day is largely from his literary work emphasizing the pains of hell and joys of heaven. I do not think he is well known at all for questionable theology. I’ve never heard of the statement you made. I cannot anticipate the Pope causing scandal with these comments at all. I wouldn’t try to read into it beyond the Pope’s intention unless you want to say he should have used more caution in qualifying his statement or something. That will have to be something you subjectively decide.

 

[Moscati]

Yes, in the context of a Papal encyclical; not just the Pope’s personal praise. Would you take the same reaction if the next Pope wrote an encyclical praising, say, Oscar Wilde for his literary abilities?

An interesting thought. I’m still thinking about it. I couldn’t resist the opportunity though:

“Oscar Wilde said that sunsets were not valued because we could not pay for sunsets. But Oscar Wilde was wrong; we can pay for sunsets. We can pay for them by not being Oscar Wilde.” -G.K. Chesterton

 

[NHInsider]

For one, that Julius Caesar was designated by God to rule the world, and therefore that Brutus was one of the worst traitors in history for assassinating him. There’s so many issues with divine providence in that.

Well, I don’t know. Paul had some pretty strong statements regarding civil authority: Romans 13:1-7 (v 2 particularly), which follows Wisdom 6, and of course in 1 Tim. 2:1-3 he counsels us to pray for them.

1 Peter 2:13-14 is in a similar vein - and keeping in mind that the civil authorities about whom Paul and Peter were writing were the Romans who would eventually execute both of them, it’s not like we can say “well THOSE civil authorities were different.”

So - I think Dante’s position is pretty well within the bounds of orthodoxy.

 

[EphelDuath]

Well, I don’t know. Paul had some pretty strong statements regarding civil authority: Romans 13:1-7 (v 2 particularly), which follows Wisdom 6, and of course in 1 Tim. 2:1-3 he counsels us to pray for them.

1 Peter 2:13-14 is in a similar vein - and keeping in mind that the civil authorities about whom Paul and Peter were writing were the Romans who would eventually execute both of them, it’s not like we can say “well THOSE civil authorities were different.”

So - I think Dante’s position is pretty well within the bounds of orthodoxy.

If Julius Caesar was designated by divine providence to become dictator of Rome, then Brutus was also designated by divine providence to assassinate him.

 

[Hesychios]

If Julius Caesar was designated by divine providence to become dictator of Rome, then Brutus was also designated by divine providence to assassinate him.

Well, there we go. He had a point to illustrate and that’s how he decided to do it, he had no power to bind and loose and his is not the last word in history. Just remember that it is a work of fiction, the message of the work is more than the details (there are so many), and in matters like this everyones opinion has the same value.

Your opinion is worth every bit of Dante Alighieri’s opinion.

The books are still wonderful, and (in fact) great ambassadors for the Catholic worldview. I would very much like to reread it, if I could just get a copy of it here in China.

 

[Poco]

Admittedly, I’ve only read Dante’s “Inferno” and “Paradisio”. I don’t recall anything in them contrary to Catholic doctrine. Would you be so kind as to cite something, please?

David

 

[Poco]

Greetings EphelDuath!

Where, exactly, can I find evidence that Julias Ceasar was chosen by God to rule the world?

David

 

[SugarMagnolia]

I think the Comedy is theologically sound. What you’re taking issue with (if I read the OP right) is Dante’s authorial decision of who to people hell, purgatory and heaven with. But this is not theology. The Comedy itself is a fiction and these are characters even though they’re taken from real life.

For comparison, consider Michelangelo’s The Last Judgment. When the master of ceremonies, Biagio da Cesena criticized the painting, the insulted Michelangelo painted him into hell. Da Cesena then complained to the Pope, but the Pope replied that he did not have the power to get people out of hell. (Do an image search. It’s funny.)

 

[Hesychios]

… the Pope replied that he did not have the power to get people out of hell. (Do an image search. It’s funny.)

I did, it IS funny!

 

[EphelDuath]

Admittedly, I’ve only read Dante’s “Inferno” and “Paradisio”. I don’t recall anything in them contrary to Catholic doctrine. Would you be so kind as to cite something, please?

Associating levels of Heaven with the ancient Greek gods, for one. Designating pagan soldiers from Greco-Roman mythology as being greater saints than legitimate Catholic saints is also bothersome, while putting various other Catholics in hell.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Associating levels of Heaven with the ancient Greek gods, for one. Designating pagan soldiers from Greco-Roman mythology as being greater saints than legitimate Catholic saints is also bothersome, while putting various other Catholics in hell.

Well if Dante’s view of these other “Catholics” is to be believed, he has good moral reason. These “religious” included those guilty of gluttony, fraud, violence, and simony. Just cuz its says Catholic on your personal information sheet, doesn’t mean you’ll get to heaven buddy.

As for the pagans, I actually find it quite ecumenical for Dante. He acknowledges that virtuous people can exist outside the Church.

 

[EphelDuath]

As for the pagans, I actually find it quite ecumenical for Dante. He acknowledges that virtuous people can exist outside the Church.

The Church teaching is that pagans can only be saved if they have “invincible ignorance” and thus are not culpable for not accepting Christ. Do you not find it bothersome that Dante considers some of these people to be greater saints, by invincible ignorance of Christ, than people who were great saints that devoted their lives to Christ?