Dante Alighieri

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EphelDuath said:
The Church teaching is that pagans can only be saved if they have “invincible ignorance” and thus are not culpable for not accepting Christ. Do you not find it bothersome that Dante considers some of these people to be greater saints, by invincible ignorance of Christ, than people who were great saints that devoted their lives to Christ?
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I’m sorry but while I may have only read the Inferno, I do not remember there being many pagans in his version of Heaven or Purgatory (from the summaries I’ve read). That said, how do you even reach the conclusion that he says they were greater than the saints? Sure he praises the likes of philosophers such as Socrates and the work of Virgil but do you really think that’s equal to saying they were greater than the saints? :ehh:
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
I’m sorry but while I may have only read the Inferno, I do not remember there being many pagans in his version of Heaven or Purgatory (from the summaries I’ve read). That said, how do you even reach the conclusion that he says they were greater than the saints? Sure he praises the likes of philosophers such as Socrates and the work of Virgil but do you really think that’s equal to saying they were greater than the saints? :ehh:
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Because there are different levels of heaven, and Dante places genuine Catholic saints in lower circles of heaven than pagans like Hector.
 
I read somewhere that poets are the real rulers of the world & it may be so if you expand poets to include other artists.

I think most of our imagery of Heaven and Hell (esp. Hell) come from Dante, far more than from the Bible or any Church teaching, just as Paradise Lost or Sistine Chapel influence what we “know” about the Fall just as much as Genesis.

So does it matter if Dante wasn’t a theologian? We should just be grateful that he was Catholic – imagine a work as great as the Divine Comedy by a Muslim had gained the same prominence.
 
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EphelDuath:
Associating levels of Heaven with the ancient Greek gods, for one.
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Hmmm…??? I’ll have to leave this as a “possible” for the moment. I need to go back and reread some to see exactly how they were associated.
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EphelDuath:
Designating pagan soldiers from Greco-Roman mythology as being greater saints than legitimate Catholic saints is also bothersome, while putting various other Catholics in hell.
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While “who” he puts “where” may be bothersome, (understandably so), I don’t think that equates to being contrary to Catholic doctrine.

David
 
EphelDuath said:
Associating levels of Heaven with the ancient Greek gods, for one. Designating pagan soldiers from Greco-Roman mythology as being greater saints than legitimate Catholic saints is also bothersome, while putting various other Catholics in hell.
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Dante based the levels of Paradiso on the four cardinal and three theological virtues, not just the ancient Greek gods.

Which pagan soldiers got higher placement than actual saints? I don’t remember any.
 
Poco said:
Hmmm…??? I’ll have to leave this as a “possible” for the moment. I need to go back and reread some to see exactly how they were associated.
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Technically, Dante is associating the levels of Heaven with the planets, which happen to be named after Greco-Roman deities.

Remember, he’s reflecting a cosmology in which the sky/space was supposed to be made up of concentric crystal spheres, each defined by the orbit of one of the six known planets, the moon, or the sun (all of which were supposed to circle the Earth).

Just as his Hell was literally inside the Earth and his Purgatory was a mountain on the opposite side of the Earth from Jerusalem (before the actual composition of the Western Hemisphere was discovered by Europeans), Dante’s Heaven was made up of those crystal spheres of space, each one corresponding to a different virtue or degree of sanctity, with the actual “residence” of God being in the highest of all.

Usagi
 
Usagi said:
Technically, Dante is associating the levels of Heaven with the planets, which happen to be named after Greco-Roman deities.

Usagi
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Well . . . sort of. He does put lovers on Venus, and Warriors for the Faith on Mars, reflecting the characteristics of the Greco-Roman deities. I think it’s just a nod to the tradition of epic poetry, though. Contemplation of the virtues is the main idea.
 
Moscati said:
Dante based the levels of Paradiso on the four cardinal and three theological virtues, not just the ancient Greek gods.

Which pagan soldiers got higher placement than actual saints? I don’t remember any.
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I am quite sure there are not.

There may be pagan soldiers higher in hell than some Catholics.

Even Virgil, the master poet whom Dante admired so much, was ‘selected’ to be his guide through all the torments of hell and into purgatory, but he could not enter Paradise. Dante was very particular about these details.

That role (the escort through heaven) is taken by the beloved Beatrice herself.
 
Usagi said:
Technically, Dante is associating the levels of Heaven with the planets, which happen to be named after Greco-Roman deities.
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Thank you, Usagi!

I remember now (well, a little bit, at least 🙂 ).

I’m not sure of the proper literary term; allegory, metaphor etc. … In any case, as to the OP, I don’t see anything in opposition to Roman Catholic doctrine.

David
 
To the above poster, “Da Cesena – Hell”; gets one to the Wikipedia article, go from there.

Wasn’t Dante cut off from the Church, though?
 
As for the ideas within The Divine Comedy, I do not think that it would have been possible for Trajan to have been posthumously baptized(which was a popular medieval belief) and am also struggling a little with the idea of virtuous pagans living in Purgatory.
 
As for the ideas within The Divine Comedy, I do not think that it would have been possible for Trajan to have been posthumously baptized(which was a popular medieval belief) and am also struggling a little with the concept of virtuous pagans living in Purgatory(though it sounds charming), which Dante thought of as being practically Heaven(at least within his work).
 
adstrinity said:
To the above poster, “Da Cesena – Hell”; gets one to the Wikipedia article, go from there.

Wasn’t Dante cut off from the Church, though?
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No, I am almost certain he was not. At least, not permanently.

He was exiled from Florence, and buried in a church in Ravenna (or near Venice somewhere), if I remember correctly. I don’t have the time right now to check, but I think I am basically correct on this point.

Florence wanted his body later (as an honored and famously popular son of the city), but as I recall they could not obtain it.
 
Young_Thinker said:
As for the ideas within The Divine Comedy, I do not think that it would have been possible for Trajan to have been posthumously baptized(which was a popular medieval belief)
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I don’t remember that …
Young_Thinker said:
and am also struggling a little with the concept of virtuous pagans living in Purgatory (though it sounds charming), which Dante thought of as being practically Heaven(at least within his work).
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Which virtuous pagans were in Purgatory?

The only one I know about was Vigil, and he was just passing through, he couldn’t stay there. He vanished at the threshold of Paradise.
 
Hesychios said:
I don’t remember that …
Which virtuous pagans were in Purgatory?

The only one I know about was Vigil, and he was just passing through, he couldn’t stay there. He vanished at the threshold of Paradise.
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Unfortunately, I do not remember the other ones’ names. I believe that Virgil actually lived in Purgatory.
 
I remember reading somewhere (the citation escapes me) that Dante was a third order Franciscan. I’m sure his theology was sound.

`A
 
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