Darwin's Theory of Evolution is not scientific

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Theories MAKE assumptions …
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Bradskii:
You DON’T embed assumptions within a theory.
Gibberish. And I thought we were making such good progress.
Don’t expect a response to any reply.
That is always my hope.
Please have the last word on me.
You’re welcome. Hopefully, we’ve seen the last of “undoubtable and obvious” as adjectives for evolutionists’ theories.
 
As in reality?
Yes, just plain reality. Not including the philosophical assumptions of a hidden more-real-reality sitting behind the ordinary reality.

The fact remains that I have scientific evidence for macro-evolution and you have not produced any contrary evidence.

Darwin’s theory is indeed scientific. The title of this thread is incorrect.

rossum
 
Lacewings already addressed. Maybe you missed it.
I did, I have been away on holiday. What post number was it?

That still leaves the crayfish.

You have not shown any positive evidence in your favour. You have some work to do.

rossum
 
Catholics know this as God. Welcome aboard!
No. That form of God is just another imaginary “basis of all being”.

As a rule of thumb, capitalised words are suspicious: “Being”, “Reality”, “Essence”. A good test is to apply the word to itself and see if you get an infinite regress. What is the Being of Being? The Being of Being of Being? I avoid the infinite regress by not starting it; I just have “being”, lower case.

rossum
 
Evolution as science or evolution as a philosophical basis for an ethos ? The latter does say that there is no God.
Evolution asserts (to use your word, but again it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt) that divine intervention is not required to explain the diversity of life. Period. There is no divine component to it, and there is no aspect of life’s diversity that is not explained by it.

Gravity explains the tides. There is no divine component to it. There is no “religion” associated with gravity. So I still don’t understand your comment.

If you take the Bible literally, and some of Catholicism’s dogmas (like Original Sin), Evolution does pose several problems for you. If you are willing to bend your beliefs, and look at the Bible as allegorically and not historical, you can fit evolution into religion. But it is nearly impossible to fit it into orthodox Catholicism. You’ve got to make quite a few compromises.

The same is true for gravity, which is why several scientists were killed in the middle ages.
 
Science is silent about the supernatural. It cannot study the supernatural.

Evolution tells us that everything we are, including our beliefs, are the result of the same processes that allegedly formed our human bodies. It appears the only purpose for evolution is to promote atheism and materialism.
 
Now it’s hardly anyone’s fault that some physics (which is waaay over anyone’s head who is posting here) suggests that that is not necessarily the case.

you (or I) have zero chance of following the maths so saying that it definitely does not will make you look ignorant as well.
Be careful… you’re coming close to their argument that we sheeple take on blind faith which our betters (scientists, in this case) tell us we must believe. 😉
How do you know they are true, since an evo formed brain is not a reliable truth detector?
Umm… pardon? Don’t you realize that, if you argue from that position, you’re effectively arguing that you, yourself, are not a reliable truth teller? 🤦‍♂️
Evolution asserts (to use your word, but again it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt) that divine intervention is not required to explain the diversity of life. Period. There is no divine component to it, and there is no aspect of life’s diversity that is not explained by it.
Maybe we’re talking past each other. Maybe I’m making assumptions that you’re not grokking. The ‘ethos’, commonly associated with a philosophical evolutionism, looks backward beyond ‘diversity’ and posits a genesis of life. It asserts an abiogenesis. This theory, then, posits a lack of a need of a divine being – and, more interestingly, takes it a step further and asserts that, since there is no need, therefore, God does not exist. This is the ‘ethos’ that Ratzinger is discussing.
If you take the Bible literally, and some of Catholicism’s dogmas (like Original Sin), Evolution does pose several problems for you.
The Catholic Church does not teach fundamentalist hyperliteralism. Nor does it require a literalistic hermeneutic in its expression of the doctrine of Original Sin. Therefore, since your premises are false, your assertion of evolution as “problematic” fails to hold water. Sorry. 🤷‍♂️
If you are willing to bend your beliefs, and look at the Bible as allegorically and not historical, you can fit evolution into religion. But it is nearly impossible to fit it into orthodox Catholicism.
Not so fast. It is “nearly impossible to fit it into” traditionalist Catholicism, or maybe into Scripturally literalist Catholicism. However, orthodox Catholicism – which is merely what the Church teaches – already allows for it, and therefore, it is not ‘impossible’: it’s already reasonable.
The same is true for gravity, which is why several scientists were killed in the middle ages.
I have no idea why you’re bringing up gravity. Perhaps you’re lamenting medieval defenestrations? 🤔
 
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Bradskii:
Now it’s hardly anyone’s fault that some physics (which is waaay over anyone’s head who is posting here) suggests that that is not necessarily the case.

you (or I) have zero chance of following the maths so saying that it definitely does not will make you look ignorant as well.
Be careful… you’re coming close to their argument that we sheeple take on blind faith which our betters (scientists, in this case) tell us we must believe. 😉
There’s a difference between blind faith and having a reasonable expectation. And it certainly makes no sense to have blind faith in something that some people tell you might be possible.
 
Evolution tells us that everything we are, including our beliefs, are the result of the same processes that allegedly formed our human bodies.
No. Evolution only describes the formation of our physical bodies, no more. Some people use evolution to say: “Look what a wonderful process God used to create us.” Other people use evolution to say: “Look, God is not needed in the process at all.”

The God or no God part is added by individuals, it is not part of evolution.

rossum
 
There’s a difference between blind faith and having a reasonable expectation.
OK, but if – as you assert – we’re too dense to understand the underlying math and physics, then our “reasonable expectation” is based solely on our trust in the people who are telling us that it really does work that way.

You know – like in the same way that non-believers laugh at Catholics because the Church tells us “just trust us – it really does work that way”! 😉
 
This is UTTERLY false. You know (or you should know if you are in this debate) that Syvanen showed that a very big proportion of eukariotic genes HAVE NO HOMLOGOUS GENES AMONG ALL THE BACTERIA
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Bradskii:
There’s a difference between blind faith and having a reasonable expectation.
OK, but if – as you assert – we’re too dense to understand the underlying math and physics, then our “reasonable expectation” is based solely on our trust in the people who are telling us that it really does work that way.

You know – like in the same way that non-believers laugh at Catholics because the Church tells us “just trust us – it really does work that way”! 😉
But the difference is that one side is being told: ‘This is DEFINITELY true and will always be true’. Whereas science effectively says: ‘As far as we are aware, with our current level of knowledge, we believe this to be the best explanation we have at this current time’.

So you have faith that Christianity is true and will always remain so. I would be astonished if you could describe it as a reasonable expectation.

But I have a reasonable expectation that our current level of understanding of the material world is the best we have at this moment. If something comes up so we need to change a theory or replace it with something better, then meh…
 
Not even a mention of evolution.

But,

“Given the potential role of microtholi in courtship, we suspect that the above variation may indicate at least some reproductive isolation between eastern and western populations.”

This is adaptation.
It’s speciation, which is synonymous with “macroevolution”.

If you were the rationalist you think you are, this would be the end of the discussion.
 
I’m still waiting for those scientific links to sources that show that “micro-evolution” stops prior to “macro-evolution”. Seems that when I ask for them I never get them, so I wonder why that is?
 
But the difference is that one side is being told: ‘This is DEFINITELY true and will always be true’. Whereas science effectively says: ‘As far as we are aware, with our current level of knowledge, we believe this to be the best explanation we have at this current time’.
But if both sides are being told “trust me”, then science for the masses isn’t science… it’s belief in a faith system, just like religion is!
But I have a reasonable expectation that our current level of understanding of the material world is the best we have at this moment. If something comes up so we need to change a theory or replace it with something better, then meh…
Yet, that’s what religion does, too. Oh, yeah – we do have God’s revelation, but no one is making the claim that we completely understand it. Even doctrine can be re-stated (albeit not contradicted). So, we replace one way of stating doctrine with another way. No harm, no foul. I guess that means that we’re being scientific! 😃
 
I’m still waiting for those scientific links to sources that show that “micro-evolution” stops prior to “macro-evolution”. Seems that when I ask for them I never get them, so I wonder why that is?
Because there is no evidence macro happens.
 
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