Dating a divorced women with 2 kids

[bolsheviks]

I’m 26 years old. About half a year ago, I met a 34 year old woman who’s divorced and has 2 children who very much fell in love with me and I with her (she’s really been the only woman who I’ve had a serious relationship with my entire life). I love and care for her a great deal. She was raised as a Catholic but isn’t much a believer currently, although I’d describe her as a genuinely sweet person who’s very open to returning. I’ve struggled tremendously with the thought of a future with her, because having no kids of my own or experience with kids, I’m finding myself thrust into this situation where I feel completely overwhelmed, having to deal with kids and her ex-husband and their relationship with one another, and having to fight against jealousy and all these other fears. I’ve seen 2 (secular) therapists about this who, although helpful, haven’t ultimately given me peace.

I believe this person came into my life directly as a result of my prayers (I suffer from anxiety/depression and started praying to God for a partner a few months prior). However, I know Christ’s words in the gospel about marrying a divorced woman, and I also have this deep internal aversion and fear to her situation (a very involved ex-husband and 2 children who aren’t mine). I’ve been praying to God with great perseverance over this time to ask for guidance, and though I believe He’s been watching over me, I still feel so unsure of what to do. I wanted to put this out there and see what I might be able to figure out.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m 26 years old. About half a year ago, I met a 34 year old woman who’s divorced and has 2 children who very much fell in love with me and I with her (she’s really been the only woman who I’ve had a serious relationship with my entire life). I love and care for her a great deal. She was raised as a Catholic but isn’t much a believer currently, although I’d describe her as a genuinely sweet person who’s very open to returning. I’ve struggled tremendously with the thought of a future with her, because having no kids of my own or experience with kids, I’m finding myself thrust into this situation where I feel completely overwhelmed, having to deal with kids and her ex-husband and their relationship with one another, and having to fight against jealousy and all these other fears. I’ve seen 2 (secular) therapists about this who, although helpful, haven’t ultimately given me peace.

I believe this person came into my life directly as a result of my prayers (I suffer from anxiety/depression and started praying to God for a partner a few months prior). However, I know Christ’s words in the gospel about marrying a divorced woman, and I also have this deep internal aversion and fear to her situation (a very involved ex-husband and 2 children who aren’t mine). I’ve been praying to God with great perseverance over this time to ask for guidance, and though I believe He’s been watching over me, I still feel so unsure of what to do. I wanted to put this out there and see what I might be able to figure out.

This sounds like more than you can deal with right now.

 

[JamalChristophr]

Keep praying about it…go to Eucharist Adoration…and ask her if she’s open to seeking an annulment. This is not the equivalent of Catholic divorce. If she can’t get her marriage annulled then you can’t marry her. Period.

Do some research on what the church teaches about annulment.

God Bless You.

 

[Auntie_A]

I agree about annulment. Aside from it freeing you for a sacramental marriage, it also can be quite healing so that she might learn from her mistakes, not repeat them. You need much good counsel around you right now. Some religious, as well as secular, counsellors might minimize the step you wish to take; others will treat it with gravity which is what you need to make a wise decision and follow-through.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I’m 26 years old. About half a year ago, I met a 34 year old woman who’s divorced and has 2 children who very much fell in love with me and I with her (she’s really been the only woman who I’ve had a serious relationship with my entire life). I love and care for her a great deal. She was raised as a Catholic but isn’t much a believer currently, although I’d describe her as a genuinely sweet person who’s very open to returning. I’ve struggled tremendously with the thought of a future with her, because having no kids of my own or experience with kids, I’m finding myself thrust into this situation where I feel completely overwhelmed, having to deal with kids and her ex-husband and their relationship with one another, and having to fight against jealousy and all these other fears. I’ve seen 2 (secular) therapists about this who, although helpful, haven’t ultimately given me peace.

I believe this person came into my life directly as a result of my prayers (I suffer from anxiety/depression and started praying to God for a partner a few months prior). However, I know Christ’s words in the gospel about marrying a divorced woman, and I also have this deep internal aversion and fear to her situation (a very involved ex-husband and 2 children who aren’t mine). I’ve been praying to God with great perseverance over this time to ask for guidance, and though I believe He’s been watching over me, I still feel so unsure of what to do. I wanted to put this out there and see what I might be able to figure out.

While there is nothing inherently wrong with meeting and marrying a divorced woman with children from her previous marriage as long as that marriage was annulled and the man accepts ahead of time the presence of children not his, I would suggest that there are too many yellow flags here aside from the lack of annulment.

First, there is a broken commitment there that the OP must discern more deeply to see how it might affect his own commitment to her. Divorce is extremely serious business when children are involved; my take is always: there had better be good reasons for it as children always suffer the most in any divorce no matter what rationalization is put on it. No need to share those reasons here, just giving the OP something to think about.

Second, the OP has anxiety and depression issues and while he doesn’t say whether he was prescribed anything to deal with it, I would suggest that going from being a single man to stepping into a family situation like this one is very highly stressful and might set off the anxiety again. I’ve always said in the past that men must vet women for their psychological issues before engagement leading to marriage, well that points back to themselves as well. The OP says he is already struggling with this: he could listen more closely to his gut, listen to himself talk about this.

It is better to back off now, break it off than to get in there, then find out he can’t swim very well. Then that’s even worse for the children involved, he has to think about them too even though they’re not his.

Good luck.

 

[Edmundus1581]

For you to take on a woman with children, you need to feel confident that she is managing her own life well, and that her regard for you is genuine.

Some questions to consider:

• How long had she been divorced when you met her?
• Has she had any other relationships since the divorce?
• Is she financially independent? ( * below)
• What caused the divorce?

If the answers were, say: you met her one year after the divorce, in which time she had one sexual relationship (or more… ), and the divorce occurred because she “wanted to get on with her life”, then I’d say run for the hills. She may genuinely love you, but she’s a man-user.

On the other hand, if the answers were, say: you met her two years after the divorce, during which time she had no (sexual) relationships, she is financially independent and the divorce occurred because her husband left her for another woman, then you can feel more confident about her.

Of course, the answer is likely to be somewhere in between.

• Of these questions, I consider the least important to be “Is she financially independent?”. It can be very hard for a single mother to achieve financial independence. If she’s got it, then great, but if not, don’t blame her.

 

[HouseArrest]

Unless her marriage was found null, you are dating a married woman. Until the marriage is annulled, you cannot date her.

 

[Usige]

Unless her marriage was found null, you are dating a married woman. Until the marriage is annulled, you cannot date her.

Agreed. It’s playing with fire to date someone who is still presumably married (unless, as a Catholic, she was married outside the Church).

Aside from it freeing you for a sacramental marriage…

To clarify, an annulment doesn’t “free you from a sacramental marriage”. it simply declares that, after investigation, no marriage ever took place. Frankly, the phrasing turns my stomach; marriage is not a sentence to be freed from.

 

[GEddie]

Agreed. It’s playing with fire to date someone who is still presumably married (unless, as a Catholic, she was married outside the Church).

To clarify, an annulment doesn’t “free you from a sacramental marriage”. it simply declares that, after investigation, no marriage ever took place. Frankly, the phrasing turns my stomach; marriage is not a sentence to be freed from.

Reread AuntieA’s post.

She didn’t say freed from a sacramental marriage; she said “freed for”: ie, free to pursue such a marriage.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m 26 years old. About half a year ago, I met a 34 year old woman who’s divorced and has 2 children who very much fell in love with me and I with her (she’s really been the only woman who I’ve had a serious relationship with my entire life). I love and care for her a great deal. She was raised as a Catholic but isn’t much a believer currently, although I’d describe her as a genuinely sweet person who’s very open to returning. I’ve struggled tremendously with the thought of a future with her, because having no kids of my own or experience with kids, I’m finding myself thrust into this situation where I feel completely overwhelmed, having to deal with kids and her ex-husband and their relationship with one another, and having to fight against jealousy and all these other fears. I’ve seen 2 (secular) therapists about this who, although helpful, haven’t ultimately given me peace.

I believe this person came into my life directly as a result of my prayers (I suffer from anxiety/depression and started praying to God for a partner a few months prior). However, I know Christ’s words in the gospel about marrying a divorced woman, and I also have this deep internal aversion and fear to her situation (a very involved ex-husband and 2 children who aren’t mine). I’ve been praying to God with great perseverance over this time to ask for guidance, and though I believe He’s been watching over me, I still feel so unsure of what to do. I wanted to put this out there and see what I might be able to figure out.

Is the marriage annulled? That is the first thing you need to find out because if it is not, then my friend you are dating a married woman. And no amount of telling yourself that God brought this into your life because of prayers can gloss over that. God just does not work that way. He does not answer prayers with potential adultery.

Perhaps now is the time to devote more attention to your faith and relationship with God than a older divorced woman with kids.

 

[bolsheviks]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I will definitely insist on an annulment before we make any serious commitments. I do think my gut is torn because, like I say, I love her a lot but then there’s also a lot about this situation that’s unnerving to me and always has been.

Her marriage was basically a sham. She was an immigrant to this country 12 or 13 years ago and followed in the footsteps of her older sister and married an American to stay in the country. She literally couldn’t speak English when they signed the marriage papers; it was just done by a court in secret, not in a church or anything religious. The man she married was 13 years her senior and they really had no chemistry. The plan (for both of them) was to divorce after she got some solid citizenship but that process ended up taking longer than expected and in that time, she tried to convince herself this was someone she could love (her words); hence the children. Likewise, his parent’s (who were well off and his employers) gave her a lot of money. The whole thing feels really slimy to me, I feel like she got taken advantage of.

For you to take on a woman with children, you need to feel confident that she is managing her own life well, and that her regard for you is genuine.

Some questions to consider:

• How long had she been divorced when you met her?
• Has she had any other relationships since the divorce?
• Is she financially independent? ( * below)
• What caused the divorce?

When I met her she was divorced for about 5 months already but had been separated for 2 years (the divorce took a while because of an attorney). She did have a relationship that was very serious for her with a guy from Europe, but he ultimately had to leave her and go back to Europe (long story). Then I met her like 3-4 months later. With that said, there were a few other guys in between who she met on an online dating site, but none of those were serious.

She’s pretty much financially independent. When she was first in this country she got her master’s degree and so has a decent job. Her ex on the other hand was employed by his parent’s and their business shut down during the recession so he was left without work and didn’t have the skills to find any. So she was responsible for supporting her entire family on her pretty average salary. Now that they’re divorced he literally only provides $300 / month and they are on a 60/40 split with custody. With that said, she somehow finds a way to get by. She’s never asked me for money but sometimes I insist to pay for basic things, no more than a few hundred a month though. In general I feel good about her in that sense… I even brought her into therapy once and afterward my therapist told me he didn’t have any fears about her motivations or that sort of thing.

So anyway she divorced him really because he wasn’t providing; she’s told me if he would have she would have stayed with him even though she didn’t really love him, but just for her kid’s sake. But yeah, she’s definitely got “pure” intentions with me as far as I can tell; she really really loves me and when we were first together, I wasn’t even making that great a salary whereas she has a lot of guys at the door, some of whom are very well off but she chooses me instead.

The kid’s seem to take to me but I also just have a hard time accepting that “daddy” is so present and important to them; of course that’s not their fault and is good for them, but to me it’s like an open wound at times. That’s really the biggest challenge here for me, almost the feeling that there’s a family unit here that’s complete without me. She has no relationship with her ex that’s out of bounds or beyond sharing the kids, so that’s good at least.

 

[Usige]

Reread AuntieA’s post.

She didn’t say freed from a sacramental marriage; she said “freed for”: ie, free to pursue such a marriage.

ICXC NIKA

GEddie, thank you for correcting my deficient reading.

AuntieA, my sincerest apologies for my poor reading. It reminded me of two seperate instance were people referred to marriage as a prison sentence and people celebrating with them on their “freedom” after divorce. Sorry for projecting my own experiences on you post.

 

[Xantippe]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I will definitely insist on an annulment before we make any serious commitments. I do think my gut is torn because, like I say, I love her a lot but then there’s also a lot about this situation that’s unnerving to me and always has been.

Her marriage was basically a sham. She was an immigrant to this country 12 or 13 years ago and followed in the footsteps of her older sister and married an American to stay in the country. She literally couldn’t speak English when they signed the marriage papers; it was just done by a court in secret, not in a church or anything religious. The man she married was 13 years her senior and they really had no chemistry. The plan (for both of them) was to divorce after she got some solid citizenship but that process ended up taking longer than expected and in that time, she tried to convince herself this was someone she could love (her words); hence the children. Likewise, his parent’s (who were well off and his employers) gave her a lot of money. The whole thing feels really slimy to me, I feel like she got taken advantage of.

When I met her she was divorced for about 5 months already but had been separated for 2 years (the divorce took a while because of an attorney). She did have a relationship that was very serious for her with a guy from Europe, but he ultimately had to leave her and go back to Europe (long story). Then I met her like 3-4 months later. With that said, there were a few other guys in between who she met on an online dating site, but none of those were serious.

She’s pretty much financially independent. When she was first in this country she got her master’s degree and so has a decent job. Her ex on the other hand was employed by his parent’s and their business shut down during the recession so he was left without work and didn’t have the skills to find any. So she was responsible for supporting her entire family on her pretty average salary. Now that they’re divorced he literally only provides $300 / month and they are on a 60/40 split with custody. With that said, she somehow finds a way to get by. She’s never asked me for money but sometimes I insist to pay for basic things, no more than a few hundred a month though. In general I feel good about her in that sense… I even brought her into therapy once and afterward my therapist told me he didn’t have any fears about her motivations or that sort of thing.

So anyway she divorced him really because he wasn’t providing; she’s told me if he would have she would have stayed with him even though she didn’t really love him, but just for her kid’s sake. But yeah, she’s definitely got “pure” intentions with me as far as I can tell; she really really loves me and when we were first together, I wasn’t even making that great a salary whereas she has a lot of guys at the door, some of whom are very well off but she chooses me instead.

The kid’s seem to take to me but I also just have a hard time accepting that “daddy” is so present and important to them; of course that’s not their fault and is good for them, but to me it’s like an open wound at times. That’s really the biggest challenge here for me, almost the feeling that there’s a family unit here that’s complete without me. She has no relationship with her ex that’s out of bounds or beyond sharing the kids, so that’s good at least.

It’s unfortunate that she’s brought you into her kids’ lives so early.

If you were to do this “right,” you’d have to back burner the relationship and wait for her to get an annulment (which, from your description, sounds doable) for the next 2-3 years or whatever. Oh, and if she is a baptized Catholic, a civil marriage would probably mean a defect of form case. If she is a baptized Catholic, I would suggest that she pursue an annulment just for her own sake.

That said, why do this? You’re young–date women your own age who aren’t divorced and who don’t have kids. Don’t be looking for a mommy for you–look for a peer.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thankyou for your answers!

Just a quick response from me - I am encouraged by all that.

It does seem that she is genuine and has managed her own life well, and is not coming to you from a position of need.

If the worst thing about it is that you feel jealous of the kids relationship with their father, while she has none, then that is about at good as this situation can be.

…But yeah, she’s definitely got “pure” intentions with me as far as I can tell; she really really loves me and when we were first together, I wasn’t even making that great a salary whereas she has a lot of guys at the door, some of whom are very well off but she chooses me instead…

This sounds almost too good to be true! It sounds as if she attracts men easily - which she can’t fake to you, but maybe she has exaggerated their financial position to make herself more appealing to you? If not, then she really is a “find”, but even if she has, it weren’t the worst crime.

A real test will be whether she consents to the annulment process.

 

[Usige]

There are two red flags that would make me hesitant.

First, she basically planned on committing immigration fraud. So she treated marriage as a means to commit a crime.
The second red flag is her having a “serious relationship” with someone while still legally married.

Both of these show a complete lack of understanding about what marriage is. That, on top of the other concerns you mentioned, would certainly give me pause even if she already had an annulment in hand.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I am a 55 year old man who has seen many unhappy relationships, and if there is one thing I’ve learned from my own and other experiences, it is:

Don’t sleep with her! Don’t even indulge in touching and passionate kissing!! It will do your head in - you will “fall in love” and whatever brief happiness you find will be followed by confusion and dependency.

What’s more, don’t let the thought of sexual intimacy with her in any way affect your decisions.

(btw, I am only talking from two experiences of my own, and both were non-intercourse - the rest are many others I’ve heard of. When a good man sleeps with a woman, he is done for).

 

[Edmundus1581]

And, lest it be said that my above advice can be taken for granted in a Catholic forum, I’ll add that at the time of my own two experiences I was a devout Catholic, and the first woman was my ex-wife, a nominal Catholic, and the second my ex-fiance - a devout Catholic.

 

[Xantippe]

There are two red flags that would make me hesitant.

First, she basically planned on committing immigration fraud. So she treated marriage as a means to commit a crime.
The second red flag is her having a “serious relationship” with someone while still legally married.

Both of these show a complete lack of understanding about what marriage is. That, on top of the other concerns you mentioned, would certainly give me pause even if she already had an annulment in hand.

Yes.

There are lots of 100% faithful Catholic women stuck home organizing their holy cards (many of them younger than this woman). Why chase this one?

 

[pensmama87]

OP, one thing that jumped out at me was that you said that you already pay a few hundred a month on this woman. Is that dates and activities for the two of you or for you and her family, or are there other things you are taking care of for her?

I would not suggest you do this unless you are very seriously pursuing a relationship with her, which you should not do unless you know she is not married. It also doesn’t fit in well with what you’ve described of her history - she may simply be very practiced at getting money from men who like her.

Not a fun thing to hear, but something to consider.

 

[Xantippe]

OP, one thing that jumped out at me was that you said that you already pay a few hundred a month on this woman. Is that dates and activities for the two of you or for you and her family, or are there other things you are taking care of for her?

I would not suggest you do this unless you are very seriously pursuing a relationship with her, which you should not do unless you know she is not married. It also doesn’t fit in well with what you’ve described of her history - she may simply be very practiced at getting money from men who like her.

Not a fun thing to hear, but something to consider.

Yes. A few hundred is a lot, even just for dates.