Dating a divorced women with 2 kids

[Edmundus1581]

“too much cake” seems to have provoked a reaction…

Let me restate:

If there’s a “red flag” on the relationship, then make sure it’s a biggie, and is current. Not something quite natural which happened once, ten years ago.

To me, a woman from a poor country entering a sham marriage for the sake of immigration, is “natural”. Myself and my men friends are being approached all the time by women wanting to marry us from other countries.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m not ignoring you, I’m definitely taking this in. I guess I’m stuck on the idea of “love conquers all” and the issues I might have with her will ultimately work themselves out but I won’t argue that when it comes to relationships I’m inexperienced and like I admit, have some anxiety / depression history so I don’t doubt that could be effecting things.

The immigration thing; I don’t find it troubling given her life circumstances. She didn’t come from a 1st world country; she came from a very poor background and really wanted a better life. How do you blame someone for that? I think it says she has poor judgment more than anything - marrying the guy she did but she was pressured to by her older sister who told her he’s so wonderful. It’s more pitiful to me than anything else.

My family’s met her and my mom loves her. My dad thinks she’s a good person but also thinks it’s a bad situation. And I don’t deny that at all; it’s the idea that I might like her more than I dislike her situation, and the idea that “this was meant to happen” and things are going to work out. I will say the “feel” of being around her kids is generally positive, it’s more the thought of all the potential drama and jealousy that bugs me.

If it bugs you, trust your gut.
That doesn’t mean you can’t be friends, but don’t fund her life, and don’t sleep with her.
Period.

 

[Edmundus1581]

YES. YES.
If the OP is involved ins sexual relationship, this could be why he’s so :undecided…confused…wondering…

Well, we are agreed on that!

It is natural for a man to be drawn into marriage for sex (and for a woman to).

However, if you have been having pre-marital sex with her, even in “light” forms, then your body is messing with your head for more. ***Really ***messing with your head…

You cannot think clearly about this until the relationship has been chaste for some time.

Even apart from that, maybe you both could benefit from some “time out”? If you can’t agree on that, and stick to it, then that’s another red flag. In fact, when I was dating my ex-wife I was being brought down by the “feelies” and tried to get some “time out” from them, and we couldn’t last more than two days. Note: **ex-**wife. I suspect she feared that giving me time out might lose me.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m not ignoring you, I’m definitely taking this in. I guess I’m stuck on the idea of “love conquers all” and the issues I might have with her will ultimately work themselves out but I won’t argue that when it comes to relationships I’m inexperienced and like I admit, have some anxiety / depression history so I don’t doubt that could be effecting things.

**Love doesn’t conquer all.

Sometimes love just ain’t enough:

youtube.com/watch?v=qdzbjUWu2VU**

I think it says she has poor judgment more than anything - marrying the guy she did but she was pressured to by her older sister who told her he’s so wonderful. It’s more pitiful to me than anything else.

**Why do you want somebody pitiful and with bad judgment as your wife and the mother of your child? And sharing your checkbook and credit card accounts, for that matter.

Much better if you just said, it was a long time ago and she’s grown up a lot since then.**

 

[Edmundus1581]

Yes.

There are lots of 100% faithful Catholic women stuck home organizing their holy cards (many of them younger than this woman). Why chase this one?

As a general thought on dating, I like this… I really like it!

Well said, Xantippe!

 

[Usige]

Edmundus1581, my principal concern with the immigration fraud was not strictly the illegality. It is that it shows a poor understanding of what the purpose of marriage is. Many of the things the OP mentions are signs of a secular view of marriage that sees marriage as a means to an end. Saying things like “I’m done with kids, but I’ll have one if that’s what you want” sets off alarm bells. Again it shows a lack of understanding of marriage as a vocation and children as a natural outcome of marriage.

Many of my concerns would not be specific instances from the past, but the continued pattern of how she makes decisions. By 34 there is little chance that her decision making patterns will change greatly.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=Hoosier Daddy;12645306]Is the marriage annulled? That is the first thing you need to find out because if it is not, then my friend you are dating a married woman. And no amount of telling yourself that God brought this into your life because of prayers can gloss over that. God just does not work that way. He does not answer prayers with potential adultery.

I agree.

Also, the pairing of the relationship concerns me. On the one hand, there is a younger guy with mental issues, and on the other is a divorced woman with kids.

Both partners, I think, have some elements of vulnerability that need to be addressed aside from the grave matters of morality which I do not wish to brush aside.

 

[Usige]

I’m not ignoring you, I’m definitely taking this in. I guess I’m stuck on the idea of “love conquers all” and the issues I might have with her will ultimately work themselves out but I won’t argue that when it comes to relationships I’m inexperienced and like I admit, have some anxiety / depression history so I don’t doubt that could be effecting things.

I’ve done marriage prep for 4 or 5 years and as part of that we do a precanna relationship inventory. A couple of questions touch on the above. In particular there are questions like:

“As long as we love each other everything will work out”
“Once we are married any problems will get better over time”

Couples that believe things like the above may be headed for trouble. It shows a romanticized view of marriage that doesn’t match up with real life. Marriage is hard work; there is no two ways around it. I’ve been married 20+ years and there are some days that I know I love my wife, but I don’t necessarily like her. She has habits that have driven me bonkers for 20 years. What used to be endearing is now simply annoying (I am of course perfect ). My point is that love and marriage doesn’t magically make things better. In some cases it amplifies things. Don’t set yourself up to think things will simply work themselves out.

As others have said, don’t latch on to her simply because she is the first nice woman you met and you can’t imagine meeting anyone else half as good. There are plenty of nice women out there. If there are few Catholics in your area then perhaps look for mission trips for young adults where you might be exposed to others. I guess I’m saying don’t overlook any potential problems you see purely out of fear of finding someone better.

 

[LongingSoul]

Here’s why I hold on to her: We have chemistry, I feel like she’s an achiever and an incredibly strong woman, etc but the huge reason is I’ve never felt so much care. It’s really indistinguishable from a family member. Even in subtle ways, “promise me you’ll wear your seatbelt”, picking up a napkin to wipe food off my face (on our first date), offering to drive me to the airport, coming across town to visit me when I’m sick, insisting to pay for things despite barely being able to pay her bills, being extremely happy for no other reason than to see me.

Wiping food off your face and making you promise to wear your seatbelt are a little bit odd. It sounds like she is relating to you as a little boy rather than a man.

 

[pianistclare]

Wiping food off your face and making you promise to wear your seatbelt are a little bit odd. It sounds like she is relating to you as a little boy rather than a man.

Agreed. Sounds like she’s grooming him.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Someone asked the wise question of what do his parents and friends think of the relationship. His response was that they like her and are in favour of it.

I got that right, didn’t I? Sorry, it’s a bit hard to go back through all the posts and dig out exactly what he said.

That to me is very significant - as parents and friends are quick to spot a bad match, or a predator.

However, and there are two big howevers:

1. Parents and friends usually won’t make adverse comments even if they are thinking them - especially to a man. It will come more as hints, such as muted “congratulations” on any good news.
2. Do you trust your parents on such matters? It may sound weird, but sometimes parents - particularly mother’s in relation to sons - can actually be very poor judges of a good match, and sometimes they don’t even care as much as they should. They might be happy to see you pared off with anyone. If you have been seeing a therapist then maybe there are such problems in the family background.

In relation to my own marriage I well recall the muted warnings I got from friends and the entirely wrong approval I got from my mum. I should have listened to my friends and not my mum.

I suggest that you ask your friends **directly **“What do you really think of this?” and, maybe, ask such of your parents - or maybe not!

You seem to have been very quiet about our warnings on sexual activity. We understand that, and many of us have been there and learned the hard way. Learn from our experiences, friend.

 

[schaubj57]

Dating a divorced woman who hasn’t had her previous marriage annulled is right now your biggest concern. You are committing adultery and that is a major sin in the Catholic Church.

The best advice is for her to seek an annulment. That will dictate what the next steps are for her and for you.

 

[Vicki_T]

I admit I didn’t read all of the replies so forgive me if I am repeating someone or if there was more information you gave that I didn’t see…

SO… I think all of the religious aspects of this story are the least of your problems and concerns. The biggest concern is that you are not just getting involved with this woman, but you are getting involved with her entire family whether you like it or not. If you are thinking of marrying her, you are marrying her kids and ex-husband too because they will be as much a part of your life as this woman. If you don’t get along with them or if they make you feel uncomfortable, then that is not going to benefit you or make you happy. Love does not conquer all, and you have some real issues here. You sound very inexperienced when it comes to relationships, and just because you are in one doesn’t mean that they are the right person for you. You are still young and have plenty of time to meet people and explore relationships. Plus, relationships and marriage don’t always equal happiness. You have to be happy with YOURSELF before you can be happy with someone else.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I’ve done marriage prep for 4 or 5 years and as part of that we do a precanna relationship inventory. A couple of questions touch on the above. In particular there are questions like:

"As long as we love each other everything will work out"
"Once we are married any problems will get better over time"

Couples that believe things like the above may be headed for trouble. It shows a romanticized view of marriage that doesn’t match up with real life. Marriage is hard work; there is no two ways around it. I’ve been married 20+ years and there are some days that I know I love my wife, but I don’t necessarily like her. She has habits that have driven me bonkers for 20 years. What used to be endearing is now simply annoying (I am of course perfect ). My point is that love and marriage doesn’t magically make things better. In some cases it amplifies things. Don’t set yourself up to think things will simply work themselves out.

I have heard words like the bolded above among some of my friends whose marriages hit the rocks and I’ve come to recognize that there’s a deep immaturity being expressed in them, an excessive willingness to paper over all yellow flags and yes even red flags too, through the use of these phrases to justify one’s own choice in a spouse.

There’s an understanding of marriage that the OP, due to his own lack of experience and insight, simply isn’t showing us here.

Of course that is in addition to that this woman’s previous marriage hasn’t been annulled yet and further, that marriage was an immigration sham marriage. Big red flags, both of these.

As others have said, don’t latch on to her simply because she is the first nice woman you met and you can’t imagine meeting anyone else half as good. There are plenty of nice women out there. If there are few Catholics in your area then perhaps look for mission trips for young adults where you might be exposed to others. I guess I’m saying don’t overlook any potential problems you see purely out of fear of finding someone better.

Could not say that better myself.

 

[HouseArrest]

Dating a divorced woman who hasn’t had her previous marriage annulled is right now your biggest concern. You are committing adultery and that is a major sin in the Catholic Church.

The best advice is for her to seek an annulment. That will dictate what the next steps are for her and for you.

Yep. She is a married woman. That is the one and only important part of the discussion. Red flags don’t matter, your family’s opinion doesn’t matter, your relationship with her doesn’t matter, whether or not you think the marriage could be annulled doesn’t matter. It hasn’t been.

You can not date her, she is married.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I made a silly post in this thread, and was rightly corrected, and made it worse by defending myself.

I apologise.

 

[Xantippe]

Also, I know the OP is charmed by her openness and emotional expressiveness, but she might possibly have a psychological problem with emotional regulation and inability to filter herself. Annulment or no annulment, that’s the sort of characteristic that will be very difficult to live with down the road (particularly if it comes bundled with some sort of psychological problem, which is my suspicion).

Her crying with guilt repeatedly especially jumped out at me. That’s a really weird thing for a 34-year-old woman to do.

I realize that there’s probably also some sort of cultural difference in play (she’s probably from an emotionally expressive culture), but I suspect that the cultural differences may be masking deeper issues.

 

[Cmc1972]

If my wife was concerned about marrying me due to issues I would’ve been left at the alter.

We are all sinners.

Everyday I challenge myself to walk the path of Jesus.

Mostly the world sucks. for the last 400 and some odd years people have been coming to America to start fresh in a better place.

If you and her want to have a true marriage in earnest then she would seek an annulment and both of you be just friends till the process was complete.

 

[Xantippe]

If my wife was concerned about marrying me due to issues I would’ve been left at the alter.

We are all sinners.

Everyday I challenge myself to walk the path of Jesus.

Mostly the world sucks. for the last 400 and some odd years people have been coming to America to start fresh in a better place.

If you and her want to have a true marriage in earnest then she would seek an annulment and both of you be just friends till the process was complete.

We are all sinners, but we can’t all manage to be successfully married to each other.

Also, where there are children involved who have already seen their parents divorce, one needs to be particularly careful not to involve them in yet another failed attempt at marriage.

 

[PaulinVA]

Yes.

There are lots of 100% faithful Catholic women stuck home organizing their holy cards (many of them younger than this woman). Why chase this one?

Funny way to put it!