Dating during annulment process?

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dulcissima said:
jmcrae, what case have you ever heard of that was not thoroughly investigated complete with testimony from witnesses? I have never heard of a case, no matter how straightforward, which was decided upon immediately. I mean, I submitted letters that were signed and postmarked prior to my marriage that corroborated the grounds that I was seeking. My marriage could also be found invalid on a number of grounds. It still goes through the normal Tribunal process. Your premise of instantaneous findings just doesn’t exist in the real world.
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Actually there are some cases that can be decided immediately. Here are two examples.

The petitioner’s former spouse had been married before and that marriage was not annulled.

Married a non-baptized person outside the Church and marriage was never convalidated nor was a radical sanation granted.
 
jmcrae said:
Why are you looking in the CCC? This is a matter of Canon Law; not a matter of theology.
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Where in Canon Law does it state that one can not date after civil divorce and before a declaration of nullity? As far as I know, Canon Law only covers that you may not enter into a new marriage without first receiving a declaration of nullity.
 
whatevergirl said:
I decided to ask this question on here, since reading a few threads that deal with people who are dating others, but are going through the annulment process. What is the Church’s stance on being in the process of getting an annulment (and you are offiically legally divorced) and pursuing a dating relationship? Not just friendship with a member of the opposite sex, but a romantic relationship? Obviously we know the Church’s stance on sexuality outside of marriage, but if the couple is kissing, holding hands, basically exhibiting signs that they are exclusively dating–is that acceptable in the eyes of The Church? Reply when you can…thanks:)
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NO!
 
dulcissima said:
jmcrae, what case have you ever heard of that was not thoroughly investigated complete with testimony from witnesses?
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I have a friend who received her Declaration of Nullity at the very moment that they verified that her marriage to a Catholic (she was not Catholic at the time of the wedding) had not been approved by the local Bishop.

They looked at the marriage registry, saw that the wedding took place outdoors and was presided over by a JP, they consulted the Bishop’s office to check that the Bishop had not approved the wedding, and that was that; she got her Declaration of Nullity the same day, and was received into the Church the following Easter.
 
dulcissima said:
Where in Canon Law does it state that one can not date after civil divorce and before a declaration of nullity? As far as I know, Canon Law only covers that you may not enter into a new marriage without first receiving a declaration of nullity.
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Is dating not a part of the process of entering into a new marriage?
 
dulcissima said:
That being said, rpp, you’ve given some good insight into why it might not be such a good idea. I’m perfectly willing to make mistakes and learn from them, provided I am not offending God while I do it.
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I like what your priest had to say. Heck, caution is always advisable when dating. It is easier and less painful to jog through a mine field. I think in many ways a parallel can be drawn to dating when you are 16 or 17 and know it will be years before you consider marriage. One must consider that God will call you to a life of celebacy. One must not get too involved too fast.

Boy, am I glad I am past all that.
 
jmcrae said:
Is dating not a part of the process of entering into a new marriage?
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In our modern Western society it normally is. But historically this has not generally been the case nor is it still the case in many parts of the world.

Personally, as long as a person has the ability to exercise free-will and refuse, I sometimes think the old method of arranged marriages is not too bad.

But THAT is a different topic.
 
jmcrae said:
Why are you looking in the CCC? This is a matter of Canon Law; not a matter of theology.
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Because it is the sure norm of the Catholic faith. It is much more relieable than the opinions offered here.
If it is obvious, then the Tribunal will say so, and give the Declaration of Nullity immediately. They don’t waste people’s time and money seeking out the obvious. They only do research in cases of doubt.
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Again, not in my diocese. This is simply untrue. Yes in matters of form, like an outdoor weddings, they will issue a summary decision in a few weeks, but that is the best they do.
 
pnewton said:
I like what your priest had to say. Heck, caution is always advisable when dating. It is easier and less painful to jog through a mine field. I think in many ways a parallel can be drawn to dating when you are 16 or 17 and know it will be years before you consider marriage. One must consider that God will call you to a life of celebacy. One must not get too involved too fast.

Boy, am I glad I am past all that.
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:rotfl:

Isn’t that the truth!
 
whatevergirl said:
True, but suppose the marriage did exist? It appears that one is not open to date, after a civil divorce, until the Church declares the marriage null.
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Then one would be in for heartache. Lack of prudence often results in pain. But then, so does dating prudently.

One more thing, I tend to focus too much on the nuts and bolts, the logic of Catholicism, and overlook the people. I will, as part of my own therapy, set aside some time to pray for you who are struggling with these very difficult problems on this thread. I am sure I can have others here join me in asking that God will grant you the gift of wisdom and prudence.
 
rpp said:
In our modern Western society it normally is. But historically this has not generally been the case nor is it still the case in many parts of the world.
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As I understand it, people in those cultures and places simply don’t/didn’t date at all.
 
rpp said:
Actually there are some cases that can be decided immediately. Here are two examples.

The petitioner’s former spouse had been married before and that marriage was not annulled.

Married a non-baptized person outside the Church and marriage was never convalidated nor was a radical sanation granted.
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Ecclesiastical impediments and lack or form cases do not require the formal Tribunal process. There can be other cases that are just as “obvious” but still require the full Tribunal process simply because that is the protocol.
 
jmcrae said:
I have a friend who received her Declaration of Nullity at the very moment that they verified that her marriage to a Catholic (she was not Catholic at the time of the wedding) had not been approved by the local Bishop.

They looked at the marriage registry, saw that the wedding took place outdoors and was presided over by a JP, they consulted the Bishop’s office to check that the Bishop had not approved the wedding, and that was that; she got her Declaration of Nullity the same day, and was received into the Church the following Easter.
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In my case, My “former roommate” and I were both atheists, she was not baptized, it was a civil ceremony was outdoors presided over by a Wiccan priestess. When I converted, she refused to consent to have the marriage convalidated.

The only reason I had to go through the long form of the nullity petition was that I, in trying to remain faithful, sought and obtained a radical sanation. What is more, at the time I got it, I knew she was going to divorce me and later that year she did.
 
rpp said:
In my case, My “former roommate” and I were both atheists, she was not baptized, it was a civil ceremony was outdoors presided over by a Wiccan priestess. When I converted, she refused to consent to have the marriage convalidated.

The only reason I had to go through the long form of the nullity petition was that I, in trying to remain faithful, sought and obtained a radical sanation. What is more, at the time I got it, I knew she was going to divorce me and later that year she did.
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I can see how it would be rather difficult to have the Church declare your marriage to be invalid, if you had had it validated by the Church after the wedding.

I’m amazed it went through, actually. (Or did it?)
 
jmcrae said:
I can see how it would be rather difficult to have the Church declare your marriage to be invalid, if you had had it validated by the Church after the wedding.

I’m amazed it went through, actually. (Or did it?)
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Oh yes. My marriage to her was declared null. There were several grounds.

Before I received my letter, I spoke to a member of the Triubunal on the phone, these are the defects they found.
  • We were not open to life.
  • We had a prenuptial agreement (which she violated anyway.) (Marital Permanence.)
  • She hid facts from me which would have altered my decision to marry her. (Deception.)
  • She was not baptized.
  • The ultimate and stated reason for the divorce was because I became Christian. (Petrine Privilege.)
    Ultimately the Tribunal declared the marriage null on the grounds of lack of intent of marital permanence.
 
dulcissima said:
Your premise of instantaneous findings just doesn’t exist in the real world.
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Dulcissima, my process was one of those “instantaneous” declarations of nullity. My ex (“former roommate” - thanks, rrp) and I were both raised Catholic and were WAY out of the Church when we were civilly married. So our annulment process (I had returned to the Church before our divorce) was just a matter of sending in our baptismal certificates, marriage license, and divorce decree. I put the paperwork in the mail on a Monday and received the declaration of nullity three days later. No kidding. If that’s not instantaneous, I don’t know what is.

Most cases are not this straightforward, but there are the few that are.

You will be in my family’s prayers during this process. Keep breathing, dear one. And when you’re able, offer up your loneliness as a sacrifice for others. I’ve been eligible for sacramental marriage for well over a year, and I have yet to actually date (a few coffee meetings, but nothing more). I understand the loneliness, and I know the joy of having something, however small, to give back to God with joy.

God bless you.
Gertie
 
One more thing, I tend to focus too much on the nuts and bolts, the logic of Catholicism, and overlook the people.

What? I would say that’s precisely what you DO NOT do.

:confused:
 
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