Dating Fast advice

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Choosevirtue said:
Is the effort worth it? I honestly really enjoy being single
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I enjoyed being single too. And I’ve tried out religious life. But there is nothing as satisfying and beautiful as married life when you do it right. Definitely worth it.
Choosevirtue said:
Well for starters what you think and declare often becomes reality. If you preoccupy your thoughts with a person or the idea of being in love it can be very consuming and unfruitful
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True but the other side of the coin is that if you don’t take the risk of actually being emotionally attached to someone then you’ll never have a deep relationship.
I mean I think and declare that I loved my wife enough to marry her. I think part of the problem is that idea of emotional chastity becomes an idea that actually prevents people getting attached because it gives the impression that it is wrong in and of itself.
 
Emotional chastity is creating unhealthy connections with something that isn’t real, not the exact reality, or causes you to lose a grip on your own life. Let me give three examples:

If I was to talk to a girl at my college and say “hey how is your day?” She says it was fine and then walks off. That is a normal conversation. If I now start to fantasize about what a great conversation that was and how she smiled and try to analyze everything she did and said, this would not be emotionally chaste - I am making a connection with something that wasn’t reality.

Another example is when you are going to bed, so you think of scenarios as you sleep daydreaming basically? Like if someone envisioned what it would be like to be married and how they would talk with their spouse when about to go to sleep, this would be creating an emotional connection and bond with something that isn’t real, and we are called to save this bond only for marriage (thus the reference to Chastity).

The same can be said for cheesy Hallmark Christmas movies that show an all-too-perfect scenario of a guy dating and a girl and somehow it doesn’t work out but magically it does in the end. Watching this for entertainment is one thing but seeing this and then building a bond with the character and envisioning what it would be like for you to find this special person after this scenario unfolded wouldn’t be emotionally chaste.

Someone can cheat on their spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend physically but also emotionally and therefore being chaste in the sexual, physical, and emotional sense is very critical.

Matt
 
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When you are not married, it is not “cheating” to have emotions for 15 different girls.

It is not immoral to daydream about talking to your future wife, about spending time with her and talking with her. It does not create “bonds” to daydream.

It is not immoral to re-hash a conversation in your mind. If you do it to the point of obsession it can be creepy, but, as long as you are not spinning it into sexual fantasies it is fine and normal.
 
I do not wish to derail the thread question here, but I would add that Emotional Chastity is even more so important in the digital age, especially with millennials, which I am one. Idolizing fantasy for a sense of belonging, enjoyment, and connection leaves us out of touch with reality and God created us to be in the present, be in the here and now. If we always dream of the future we miss the present and our future will quickly pass us by.

Catholic Exchange describes it as follows: ”Emotional “chastity”, like physical chastity, also requires a discipline of mind. Just as we can sexually fantasize about a person in our mind we can emotionally fantasize about a person as well.”

Here is the full article for reference, a good read: What Is Emotional Chastity?

I also do not understand your comment about emotions for multiple girls being okay. I do not believe that’s okay, if I understand what you mean by emotions (which maybe I don’t)
 
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That used to be called “guarding your thoughts”. Emotional chastity isn’t a real thing…or it’s a very bad name for what is normally called prudence or good judgement.

If you’re a single person it’s not really a problem to fantasize a bit about meeting someone or being with a girl you like. It’s not bad to desire to meet someone and connect with them. Obviously that can go a bit far but I think for most teens to young adults it’s just normal.

“Emotional Chastity” is making a sin out of something that isn’t really. I agree with @TheLittleLady that it’s not actually immoral to do this as long as it’s not sexual.

It’s obviously different for a married man as the rightful attachment is to their wife alone.

It’s just maturity. Nothing more or less.
 
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Choosevirtue said:
Anybody ever gone on a dating fast/detox have advice for someone trying it in their teens/20s? I am probably going to buy Lisa Cotters book but this is planned to last about a year for me
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My advice/comment is probably way out of sink with what others will be, and I stumbled across this looking for an old thread on a totally different topic (the ongoing schism situation the Ukraine), but here goes.

I’d avoid using terms like “fast” for something like this as it really isn’t. People have become pretty loose with the term “fast” and that sort of cheapens the term “fast”. I don’t know what it is, but it isn’t a fast. And “detox” is super trendy and I’d avoid thinking of it in those terms. Almost 100% of the time that people think they’re “detoxing” themselves, they aren’t.

Which may or may not mean your endeavor is worthwhile, I’d just avoid thinking of them in that fashion.

Secondly, as somebody who has been married for a long time now (over 20 years) and who was 31 or when he got married, I just wouldn’t sweat the entire thing. I found my wife when I wasn’t really looking, and for that matter, I was never really consciously looking. I think that if I’d been looking in a dedicated fashion, I would not have found her as chances are she wouldn’t have met whatever set of criteria I thought I would frame out.

That approach to these sorts of things may not be for everyone, but guard your morals always, and don’t shut the doors or regard them as open would be my view.
 
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Exactly. No matter what your vocation, single married or religious life, God always takes first place in our hearts. Even married couples, I’ve heard jokingly in Catholic as well as other denominations they say to eachother “I love you second”, because even when you’re married your love is first for God and your love for your spouse comes from that love. A Christian marriage involves three people, the husband, wife and God. A lot of people on here who negate emotional chastity or the idea of it probably don’t have Christ centered marriages anyway, either because they profiles say they aren’t devout Christians or they make very worldly/secular arguments against it. It’s not about closing yourself off to others it’s about making more room in your heart for God and the more you love God the better capacity you will have to show love and mercy to your future spouse.

Your future spouse shouldn’t be an idol and replaying conversations in your head and fantasizing often turns into obsessing and idolizing. Marriage today in the western world is more about feelings and emotions than financial and necessity like it was in the past, which isn’t entirely bad in and of itself but can often contribute to the very high divorce rates, people enter relationships and marriage expecting the guy or girl to be their “everything” (when really God is our everything) and end up disappointed because we are all human and often in marriages people make big mistakes. Without being single heartedly for God these mistakes can be very hard to forgive and move past. It’s also unfair to place such a high expectation on another human being as well.
 
By the way I have to say you are very mature and knowledgeable for your age! There’s a lot of junk that gets posted on these forums sometimes by people twice your age who clearly know nothing about Catholicism but it’s refreshing to see some real Catholic young adults on here. I also started listening to that Among the Lillies podcast it’s great, I’ve already recommended it to a lot of my friends
 
As I said, sexual fantasy = lust = sin.

Simply having warm emotions for a girl is not a sexual fantasy.
 
“It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live.”

It’s not entirely about sex, many women especially younger girls who are pretty sexually innocent don’t fantasize about guys sexually, they tend to care more about the emotional aspect than getting the sexual aspect, having a guy’s attention and approval. It’s not healthy to daydream about something that doesn’t exist. There’s nothing wrong with having crushes but the difference between a mature person and a child is emotionally mature people have the choice to what extent they want to invest mental space and emotions on. Emotional chastity takes the aspect of physical self control to the next level and helps a person become more mindful about where their thoughts and emotions are going and whether those thoughts and emotions are fruitful or destructive. If you read writings of Saints, many express that longing for God emotionally, and guess what many Saints were married as well
 
Sigh… you ask for Catholic advice on this forum about how to pursue God and 90% of your responses are from people who tell you what you would hear at a bar or something … the irony :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:
 
Haha thanks, I’ve definitely grown in my own faith and my appreciation of it from regular Daily Mass and Confession (just went actually lol), I highly recommend it, especially to bring your troubles with dating to Jesus and Mary.

I’m very glad you have enjoyed the podcast, I also highly recommend Fr. Mike Schmitz as well as Jackie and Bobby on Ascension Presents on YouTube.

There are so many wonderful sources haha
 
I follow Ascension Presents too!! Great videos on there! I have to say Jackie Francois is my favorite Catholic speaker, she is so sweet and sincere. I actually talked to her two years ago at a Lifeteen conference I worked at, she’s so serene, she’s definitely one of my role models!
 
Wow! That’s amazing getting to meet someone like her, I’d love to meet Cameron Fradd’s husband Matt Fradd. Might try and invite him to my college as a speaker for a pro-life and chastity club I run. Temptations seem to be increasing in the world but never doubt the power of God to make more and more resources and holy people available to help.

“No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
- 1 Corinthians 10:13
 
To be honest, in my opinion, if a person so completely loses herself in a fantasy world that she loses touch with real life relationships, she needs professional counseling.

As for emotional chastity, we can start coming up with all sorts of chastities. Sexual, emotional, dietary, gambling, sleep, driving too fast…
 
People often do, it’s not as obvious and dramatic as you would think but it happens very frequently to many young women thanks to Disney and Twilight and such unrealistic envisions of relationships in romcoms. I mean have you been to a high school retreat? Half the girls there have marriage goggles on, no joke, while the guys are still figuring out how to do their laundry and wake up before 1pm…

And yes while some of your examples are kind of exaggerated, anything that comes before God in your life, career, hobbies, material goods, music, and relationships, is something that needs to be dialed down. It’s not termed chastity but many people replace God with their career and passions/hobbies
 
Choosevirtue said:
“I love you second”, because even when you’re married your love is first for God and your love for your spouse comes from that love. A Christian marriage involves three people, the husband, wife and God
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Yes. But the love for your spouse also feeds back in to the love for Christ too. You love Jesus when you love your spouse. That’s what a Christ centered marriage is.
The problem with emotional chastity is the term. It’s not a type of chastity. It’s simply maturity and prudence.

I think that there’s a huge amount of over thinking and over analysis going on in the area of chastity. In reality it’s a simple concept. Sexual restraint appropriate to your state in life.
Choosevirtue said:
anything that comes before God in your life, career, hobbies, material goods, music, and relationships, is something that needs to be dialed down
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Not really. Most of us are not callied to religious life and serve God through our everyday lives. As a married man with a career I put God first by serving my wife and doing my job with care and diligence.
 
Our very essence as human beings is ordered to serve God first before everything else, JPII’s Theology of the Body.

”Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.” - Romans 12:1

As Christ loves the Church His bride, husbands are called to love their wives in the same sacrificial and giving love. But in order to understand this love, we must first be centered on Christ who gives the greatest example of love possible on the cross. It’s why I wear a Crucifix 24/7, it is a constant reminder of what true love is, not what the media or new age beliefs say, but rather the sacrificial love of the cross.

_ “There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”_ - John 15:13
 
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Don’t get mad–some of the responders are married and have an understanding of how life works.

My marriage ended up being a mistake, and looking back, I feel that I was too focused on getting married beforehand and not enough on myself, discerning my life, and work and stuff.

You are taking a more “intentional” route, discerning your life rather than just letting it happen to you. That seems really good.

I understand what they mean by emotional chastity as well. For someone who doesn’t have the problem, the term will be meaningless, but maybe they will understand when they think of what is meant when people say romance stories are “women’s porn,” to put it graphically. It is just as unrealistic as when men look at porn, and can lead those who are less knowledgeable to having very skewed ideas of love and marriage.

I don’t think there has to be a special “detox” other than the same sort of vigilance one does when one separates oneself from something in life for a time.

When I fast from certain foods, I simply stop, and grapple with the sudden onslaught of hunger pangs my body tries to trick me with 😉

Be gentle with yourself and don’t go to extremes, but keep steady on your course. Maybe get involved with the Legion of Mary or another group so you can go on a short mission trip, or get involved with tutoring or helping others in some way. That is like the rice bowls they have during Lent.

Overall, remember we are Catholic. For the average person, fasting is giving up one good for a better good. Keep your eyes on the better good.
 
Choosevirtue said:
None of what you say is even theologically substantiated. By your definition atheists “love God”. This is really so ridiculous.
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Relax. You clearly misunderstood me. It’s perfectly well substantiated actually.

I don’t mean that just anyone’s marriage or career is geared to God. But certainly a sacramental marriage constitutes a vocation and as a married man my vocation is to assist my wife and our family in getting to heaven. That is how I serve God in my life. It’s less the prayers I say and more the prayers I DO.

St. Josemaria Escriva was a great advocate of the idea that any action offered for the love of God was a prayer that drew us closer to Him. That’s what I meant and it’s perfectly in keeping with Catholic theology.

There’s no need to get snotty just because you read something into my post that wasn’t there.
 
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