Dating someone who rides the fence about abortion and pre-marital sexuality

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MJDorry

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I’m a 27-year old man and who’s been dating a 23 year-old woman over the past month-and-a-half. We hit it off in the beginning and were going on dates multiple times a week. She really is a great gal and we get along great for the most part. There’s chemistry and unbroken gazes when speaking. But as stated, there are issues, even if the issues are a bit more nuanced than as stated in the thread title.

She seems to be an otherwise strongly-believing Christian woman (I make caveats for the non-Catholics because I have not met any truly devout Catholic women), but her stance on abortion is a weird one. She says she would never have an abortion and that she thinks that all abortions are absolutely terrible, but that even in light of that, she doesn’t feel like it’s anybody’s place to tell a woman what she can do with her body.

She also believes that this is a sticking point for equality and women’s liberation. But I just don’t know how you can hold to completely morally contradicting positions—“abortion is horrible, but women should be allowed to legally and freely choose.”

And then there’s the matter of sexuality. She says that she’s completely fine waiting for marriage if that’s what the other person wants, but that waiting is not something she’d stick to if the “time felt right” and her s/o initiated.

I know the kind of man that I am. I am very sexually-minded. And as much faith as I have in the power of God to lift me, I’m not confident I would wait if I knew my s/o was willing to have sex before marriage. To this extent I’ve more recently sought women who were very much about waiting for marriage because I feel like together, we can accomplish that if that’s both our conviction.

What do I do here? Do these things represent a spiritual incompatibility that can be fraught with danger and pain down the road? Do they represent an opportunity to bridge that spiritual gap? Is it possible God put her in my path to direct her toward him through our relationship (should we enter into one)? Or is it possible that He put her in my path to give me the opportunity to choose the incredibly difficult thing of nipping this in light of spiritual difference? Or is God leaving this to a negative and a positive direction for both instances?

I told her today that these things weighed on me and that while I wanted to see her again, it was something I needed to seriously think about. And she said she was fine with that and understood, but she was very obviously still hurt by this sudden change in direction. To see that hurt started crushing me. Now I feel like **** for bringing it up so soon and leaving her hurt and hanging in the balance. I feel like I could be making a rash and extreme reaction to something that may not be big in the grand scheme, but I feel like these are things that the spirit of the relationship can sometimes hinge on.

If you have thoughts or experience, please share. 😦
 
I understand that she is a nice girl, but these views are red flags to me. You mentioned she is Christian, but is she Catholic? This could be another issue down the road. The views she holds are incompatible with Catholic faith, which makes me wonder if she holds more views on other subjects which are incompatible as well.
 
I’m a 27-year old man and who’s been dating a 23 year-old woman over the past month-and-a-half. We hit it off in the beginning and were going on dates multiple times a week. She really is a great gal and we get along great for the most part. There’s chemistry and unbroken gazes when speaking. But as stated, there are issues, even if the issues are a bit more nuanced than as stated in the thread title.

She seems to be an otherwise strongly-believing Christian woman (I make caveats for the non-Catholics because I have not met any truly devout Catholic women), but her stance on abortion is a weird one. She says she would never have an abortion and that she thinks that all abortions are absolutely terrible, but that even in light of that, she doesn’t feel like it’s anybody’s place to tell a woman what she can do with her body.

She also believes that this is a sticking point for equality and women’s liberation. But I just don’t know how you can hold to completely morally contradicting positions—“abortion is horrible, but women should be allowed to legally and freely choose.”

And then there’s the matter of sexuality. She says that she’s completely fine waiting for marriage if that’s what the other person wants, but that waiting is not something she’d stick to if the “time felt right” and her s/o initiated.

I know the kind of man that I am. I am very sexually-minded. And as much faith as I have in the power of God to lift me, I’m not confident I would wait if I knew my s/o was willing to have sex before marriage. To this extent I’ve more recently sought women who were very much about waiting for marriage because I feel like together, we can accomplish that if that’s both our conviction.

What do I do here? Do these things represent a spiritual incompatibility that can be fraught with danger and pain down the road? Do they represent an opportunity to bridge that spiritual gap? Is it possible God put her in my path to direct her toward him through our relationship (should we enter into one)? Or is it possible that He put her in my path to give me the opportunity to choose the incredibly difficult thing of nipping this in light of spiritual difference? Or is God leaving this to a negative and a positive direction for both instances?

I told her today that these things weighed on me and that while I wanted to see her again, it was something I needed to seriously think about. And she said she was fine with that and understood, but she was very obviously still hurt by this sudden change in direction. To see that hurt started crushing me. Now I feel like **** for bringing it up so soon and leaving her hurt and hanging in the balance. I feel like I could be making a rash and extreme reaction to something that may not be big in the grand scheme, but I feel like these are things that the spirit of the relationship can sometimes hinge on.

If you have thoughts or experience, please share. 😦
It seems I was just reading a front page thread by a catholic lady lamenting the lack of committed catholic bachelors. Y’all need to stop wasting valuable time dating unsuitable people. Look, I’ve done this. I wasted time in a relationship with a catholic woman who had serious red flags. You can’t go on a date with a saint when you are already going steady with a lukewarm Christian. Moral convictions about sex and life are huge. You NEED to have a foundation wher you agree about the basic assumptions so when tough choices come up you can make life decisions together. If you are 100% catholic and she is a cafeteria catholic, how will you decide what to do “with her body” when she has a crisis pregnancy? This is a practical issue. You love your spouse unconditionally. You choose a spouse very carefully.
 
I understand that she is a nice girl, but these views are red flags to me. You mentioned she is Christian, but is she Catholic? This could be another issue down the road. The views she holds are incompatible with Catholic faith, which makes me wonder if she holds more views on other subjects which are incompatible as well.
She is not Catholic, but I’ve never been overly concerned with doctrinal differences if they still believe all the things that we are called to in, as CS Lewis puts it, “mere Christianity”. It would never stop me from attending Mass, and though I would take the time to be at an s/o’s church service, I would never view it as a substitute for Mass, so much as a weekly, well, sermon…

The only way the difference could deter me is if I was concerned that my love for the Church and attending Mass would come under fire by any potential mates. Then I would turn away.
 
She is not Catholic, but I’ve never been overly concerned with doctrinal differences if they still believe all the things that we are called to in, as CS Lewis puts it, “mere Christianity”. It would never stop me from attending Mass, and though I would take the time to be at an s/o’s church service, I would never view it as a substitute for Mass, so much as a weekly, well, sermon…

The only way the difference could deter me is if I was concerned that my love for the Church and attending Mass would come under fire by any potential mates. Then I would turn away.
It will be under fire eventually if her view of morality is different. If you are on hard times and can’t afford a child will she pressure you to use birth control?
 
She is not Catholic, but I’ve never been overly concerned with doctrinal differences if they still believe all the things that we are called to in, as CS Lewis puts it, “mere Christianity”. It would never stop me from attending Mass, and though I would take the time to be at an s/o’s church service, I would never view it as a substitute for Mass, so much as a weekly, well, sermon…

The only way the difference could deter me is if I was concerned that my love for the Church and attending Mass would come under fire by any potential mates. Then I would turn away.
That’s well and good, except that she doesn’t believe in the things we are called to, such as chastity and the absolute protection of life.
 
My experience: I have had two girlfriends. One was a compremising catholic who was disrespectful to her parents. Lots of temptations in that relationship. It started unexpectedly and burned hot. I had doubts about her faith and morals–especially since she was catholic and I was an evangelical missionary. I always felt guilty about our relationship and I broke it off after several weeks. Very painful. Seeing her grief was heart wrenching and I wished I could take back all the things I did that set her up for heartbreak. I decided I would never be in a relationship with a woman who’s faith was not fully compatible with mine. She had to be a committed uncompromising devoted disciple of Jesus. Then I met my wife. :egyptian::egyptian::egyptian: I have never regretted that standard in 8years marriage and 4 children so far.
 
That’s well and good, except that she doesn’t believe in the things we are called to, such as chastity and the absolute protection of life.
the quintessential test of “mere Christianity” is whether she has a habit of obeying God. So, God says there should not even be a “hint” of sexual immorality among us. Ephesians 5:3. God says he made man in his own image, making human life sacred. Yet you say she is committed pro-choice and negotiable on purity. That isn’t Christianity that’s hedonism. I am not telling you what you have to do, but whatever you do, please don’t deceive yourselve out of character for beauty and charm.
 
<<What do I do here? Do these things represent a spiritual incompatibility that can be fraught with danger and pain down the road?">>

Yes…“fraught with danger”. Those things are very important to the future sanctification of a married couple.
 
All I know is that if my wife believed that abortion was integral to women’s equality it would drive me nuts.

It’s a tough call, there are many other factors that would have to be taken into account and I just can’t say one way or another. I’ll pray for you.
 
I

What do I do here? D

If you have thoughts or experience, please share. 😦
MJ: Six weeks? My first suggestion might be to let off the gas a bit. She sounds nice but you’re finding a few crabapples in the bowl of cherries. I would suggest continuing the relationship but tone down the unbroken gazes and the Rod McKuen playing in the background and gently explore those areas of difference between you two. Have fun but go a bit slower. You need to have some conversations about the sticking points you mention. Is her position on abortion truly hers or is she parroting the siren song of the popular culture (and even Catholic politicians)? Your reasoned and compassionate “argument” for your position might make her see her position in a new light. After all, she is against abortion from a personal standpoint. I’m against murder, but it is okay with me that Wal Mart sells shotguns and shotgun shells.

As to the chastity issue, I think her position might be indicative of the millennial generation that has grown up in the age of sexual permissiveness. From what you said, she sounds amenable to waiting until marriage. So, again, offer her a reasoned and joyful faith filled “argument” for chastity and see how she reacts.

To not judge another is something Christ called us to do. She may be trying to live out that mandate in her own way. As one grows and matures in their Christianity, positions of youth often give way to the truth is is often easier to see with a few more years under one’s belt.

I know I am disagreeing with some of the other posters (and there are many good points they have offered you) but I think it would be a shame to discard someone who acts properly but thinks a bit out of bounds. My advise, give both of yourselves a chance and trust in the Holy Spirit to guide you both. And throttle back the aferburners!

Shalom

P.S. sorry about the Rod McKuen cultural reference. You might have to google that one to better understand. Don’t think he even appears on the millennial’s radar screen.
 
I have a take on this that I think is important for most Catholics. Assuming you are planning on having children in your marriage; are you comfortable with this lady teaching your children that “she doesn’t feel like it’s anybody’s place to tell a woman what she can do with her body.” This may result in your losing a grandchild to abortion.

And are you okay with her teaching your children that its “completely fine waiting for marriage if that’s what the other person wants” but she doesn’t find it a big deal if they don’t wait.

That’s even before getting into the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic Christian beliefs.

If you are simply dating to pass the time that is one thing, but if you are discerning marriage then discerning who is NOT a good marriage partner is just as important as discerning who is.
 
I had a friend who felt this way.
It’s a matter of vanity.
I asked her:

What is different about YOUR potential children that they get to live, while the children of others are expendable?

She couldn’t answer.

It makes no sense. You can’t be FOR something and simultaneously against something.
I think you would have to compromise your faith fro this relationship.
My question to you is: Is it worth it to you?
Best wishes
 
There’s chemistry and unbroken gazes when speaking.
So there is infatuation. You need a healthy dose of that in the beginning of the relationship. But it does not sustain a relationship. And it does sometimes obscure and play down real points of incompatibility.

I’m glad that you have not glossed over the signs this may not have long term potential
Do these things represent a spiritual incompatibility that can be fraught with danger and pain down the road?
Maybe.

I think they point to some deeper things. She isn’t a Catholic, so how would she feel about raising children in the Catholic Church, the practice of the Catholic faith in the household (Lenten abstinence and fasting, Advent wreath, family rosary-- just for example)? She is OK with premarital sex, so she must favor contraception also. This begs the question regarding contraception in marriage. And finally, would she teach a future son or daughter these ideas or would she be OK teaching them Catholic morality on these matters of abortion, contraception, premarital sex, etc? Would she continue to see these things as tied in to her identity of a modern woman, the identity politics of equality? What other things does she see as equality issues? Gay marriage? Trans rights?

I think the ideas are worth exploring further, and I think it is better to know now than later. Yes, it hurts to have the optimism and infatuation of a new relationship crushed. It hurts a zillion times more to be crushed when you have grown to love someone and then tackle these issues.

DO NOT feel BAD of GUILTY. This is the purspose of discernment. What leads to danger down the road is not discernment, it’s a failure to discern or worse a failure to act on the results of discernment you really know you should.
 
She seems to be an otherwise strongly-believing Christian woman (I make caveats for the non-Catholics because I have not met any truly devout Catholic women), but her stance on abortion is a weird one. She says she would never have an abortion and that she thinks that all abortions are absolutely terrible, but that even in light of that, she doesn’t feel like it’s anybody’s place to tell a woman what she can do with her body.
So, I am wondering, you have not met any truly devout Catholic women, and now, by your own words, you consider her to be “otherwise strongly believing.”

What is your criteria?

She is okay with pre-marital sex, and okay with waiting if she has to.
Wouldn’t have an abortion but is okay with other people having them under the guise of “it’s nobody’s place yadda yadda.”

And that going to each other church thing is gonna get old. So, say you stay with her despite the glaring differences, what happens when you have children?

Ah, but that’s far off down the road. If you think it’s hard to end it now, think of how much worse it will be in the future.

None of us can tell you what to do because only you can decide what truly matters in your faith life.
 
Just don’t. Mixed marriages are hard enough even when on the same page on moral issues.

Christian marriage and raising children calls for a courage and fortitude that is fueled by conviction.
 
Keep in mind non-marital sex is contrary to Biblical teachings.
Consider 1 Corinthians 7:2. Nowhere does it say each man find his own woman and each woman finds his own man. It’s explicitly wife and husband in all translations and even in Greek and Arabic.
 
Your Girlfriend is voicing an opinion,
It’s great she has a mind of her own, that’s a good thing isn’t it ?
She ultimately believes what a person does with their own life is their own business,
And I couldn’t agree more ,
If the right time comes for a right reason for the right subject ,
Then go for it, providing a person does it with free will and realises consequences,
 
Simply stated, I believe it is VERY important to be on the same page. It would be harder to remain pure if you are with someone who is open to pre-marital sex as you have said. And the temptation is likely always present even in the best case scenerio for men and women. In the the end, is it more important to remain in friendship with our Lord or worry about hurting the feelings of someone who doesn’t share your views? I don’t mean to sound heartless. Trust me, it"s hard to go back once you’ve fallen.
 
If you were to get serious, would she go through RCIA and become Catholic?

Is her yardstick atm from a Catholic point of view or a generic Christian, I believe in God point of view.

Has she been to Catholic Mass?
 
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