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yellowbird
Guest
The OP wasn’t asking if his daughter should DATE the boy… that is a totally different conversation. He was asking whether he should meet the boy’s parents and accept their dinner invitation.
Christ called the BELIEVERS hypocrites… the “religious” leaders of the day who followed the letter of the law, but their hearts were far removed. And the second passage you mentioned again, applies to those WITHIN the Church. And I don’t see very many Catholic Churches following this practice… I suppose because they know if they “cast out” sinners, the building would be empty?
You know what… you keep doing your thing… avoiding contact with non-believers and people caught up in their sinful ways, and I’ll keep doing my thing of trying to love everyone and being a LIGHT in this very dark world.
“If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” ~ Mother Teresa.
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Nec5
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- The original post definitely mentions dating as the sole reason for the dinner. Again, dating is not the venue for persuasion and conversion. You cannot separate the context of a father dining with the “parents” of his daughter’s boyfriend from the values at work here.
2.Regarding Christ’s words towards believers, they also apply to everyone else as well. Interesting that you justify the behavior of ignoring scripture (casting people out who steadfastly distort the reality of sin despite patient reasoning) by citing the number of people who would be in church. For the record, the number of people in a church is irrelevant as long as it is proclaiming God’s message accurately.
Oddly enough, your non-judgmental approach has been tried. The last several decades followed your philosophy inside and outside the chapels of Christ. Neither popes nor preachers remained vigorously steadfast and vocal amidst the insipid and seductive lies of our “modernistic humanism”. The result? God has been replaced by science and virtue has become synonymous with sin. European churches are empty. American churches are emptying. Even by your own measure of church attendance, the non-judgmental view has failed.
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yellowbird
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I finally meet someone where this sentence ACTUALLY applies: “Don’t try to be more Catholic than the Pope.” 
Sorry - I believe in the authority of the Catholic Church. I trust that God knows what he’s doing with His Church. Until he appoints YOU Pope, I’ll stick with the Holy Fathers He has appointed. I’m crazy faithful like that.
I’m not sure what you mean by this: For the record, the number of people in a church is irrelevant as long as it is proclaiming God’s message accurately.
You say it as if I’d disagree? OF COURSE God’s message should be proclaimed accurately!!! My Priest often preaches about the sin of premarital sex, abortion, birth control, missing mass etc. He even suggested that you should not call yourself CATHOLIC if you vote for a pro-abortion political candidate. YAY him! He preaches truth.
I’ll tell you what I’ve NEVER heard him preach though: DON"T be friendly with people unless you KNOW they have repented of their sins. Avoid unrepented sinners at all costs. Leave them lost in their sin. If your neighbor invites you to dinner and you know he’s a SINNER - SAY NO! Don’t go. The whole world is going to pot and it’s because loving people like YELLOWBIRD are friendly and willing to eat dinner & have a conversation with ANYONE… even gasp unbelievers! SHAME ON HER and her non-judgemental ways. God doesn’t love those people… why should she? :tsktsk:
My Priest must be one of those “humanistic” types you mentioned because he has the gall to preach that God loves everyone. So much so that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for the sins of the world. My sins, your sins, and the homosexual Dads’ sins.
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sanctamaria17
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Well, I guess I’m going to Hell, too. Never mind that I defend the Church in my liberal university and I am active in pro-life groups and other events. Never mind that I’ve spent time reading TOB so that I can know the Truth and follow it more faithfully. Never mind that I encourage others to do likewise and that I’ve had to renounce my own temptations (some involving SSA) to follow my faith more fully.
No, it’s because I hang out with my gay friends that I’m going to Hell.
Oh, and I hang out with people who do drugs (not with me).
And I hang out with people who’ve had premarital sex.
Did I mention I have friends who’ve had abortions in their past, too?
Christ said whoever is sinless may cast the first stone. Well, let me tell you. I’ve sinned. Yes, I’ve sinned. I may not have slept with anyone and I may never have done coke. I may be known as the “good girl” among friends and coworkers, but guess what? I’ve sinned.
Who am I to judge a hospitable family, a family who may have never known Christ, a family trying to do right by what they know, and condemn them?
Never mind the destruction that others have caused in the world. Never mind that China forces people to have abortions or that Iran has hanged minors. Never mind that, due to lack of prudence on behalf of a company, gallons upon gallons of oil are destroying the Gulf and could prove dangerous (especially with hurricane season). Never mind that people are being murdered for following Christ all over the world and that children here and half a world over do not have enough to eat (mainly due to social injustice). No, it’s these two men who are destroying the world.
We’re destroying the world because we’re all acting high and mighty, deciding that we know best, not God, and that some people are just “unworthy” of seeing His light. This girl, from what we know, is obviously showing that to the boy and, by extension, to the men who raised him. How sad that we’re condemning her behavior, simply because his parents (not him) decided to do something…Who knows? Maybe her example will lead them into the Church? Then the world will be a bit brighter, because someone’s life was touched by God.
No, it’s because I hang out with my gay friends that I’m going to Hell.
Oh, and I hang out with people who do drugs (not with me).
And I hang out with people who’ve had premarital sex.
Did I mention I have friends who’ve had abortions in their past, too?
Christ said whoever is sinless may cast the first stone. Well, let me tell you. I’ve sinned. Yes, I’ve sinned. I may not have slept with anyone and I may never have done coke. I may be known as the “good girl” among friends and coworkers, but guess what? I’ve sinned.
Who am I to judge a hospitable family, a family who may have never known Christ, a family trying to do right by what they know, and condemn them?
Never mind the destruction that others have caused in the world. Never mind that China forces people to have abortions or that Iran has hanged minors. Never mind that, due to lack of prudence on behalf of a company, gallons upon gallons of oil are destroying the Gulf and could prove dangerous (especially with hurricane season). Never mind that people are being murdered for following Christ all over the world and that children here and half a world over do not have enough to eat (mainly due to social injustice). No, it’s these two men who are destroying the world.
We’re destroying the world because we’re all acting high and mighty, deciding that we know best, not God, and that some people are just “unworthy” of seeing His light. This girl, from what we know, is obviously showing that to the boy and, by extension, to the men who raised him. How sad that we’re condemning her behavior, simply because his parents (not him) decided to do something…Who knows? Maybe her example will lead them into the Church? Then the world will be a bit brighter, because someone’s life was touched by God.
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fms
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Fantastic!
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Nec5
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Regarding the numbers comment, you made the claim that if we judged (I’m grossly paraphrasing your words here for space), all the churches would be empty. I countered that argument with the irrelevant remark and followed it with the argument that the churches are largely empty despite not judging.
Sorry - I believe in the authority of the Catholic Church. I trust that God knows what he’s doing with His Church. Until he appoints YOU Pope, I’ll stick with the Holy Fathers He has appointed. I’m crazy faithful like that.
I’m not sure what you mean by this: For the record, the number of people in a church is irrelevant as long as it is proclaiming God’s message accurately.
You say it as if I’d disagree? OF COURSE God’s message should be proclaimed accurately!!! My Priest often preaches about the sin of premarital sex, abortion, birth control, missing mass etc. He even suggested that you should not call yourself CATHOLIC if you vote for a pro-abortion political candidate. YAY him! He preaches truth.
I’ll tell you what I’ve NEVER heard him preach though: DON"T be friendly with people unless you KNOW they have repented of their sins. Avoid unrepented sinners at all costs. Leave them lost in their sin. If your neighbor invites you to dinner and you know he’s a SINNER - SAY NO! Don’t go. The whole world is going to pot and it’s because loving people like YELLOWBIRD are friendly and willing to eat dinner & have a conversation with ANYONE… even gasp unbelievers! SHAME ON HER and her non-judgemental ways. God doesn’t love those people… why should she? :tsktsk:
My Priest must be one of those “humanistic” types you mentioned because he has the gall to preach that God loves everyone. So much so that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for the sins of the world. My sins, your sins, and the homosexual Dads’ sins.
Again, being friendly does not equal allowing your child to date and dine with someone who has these parents and “presumably” supports that immoral lifestyle.
What is needed is your “love” approach and a “judging” approach. They are two parts to a whole just like the Old and New Testaments. Today’s society features only the love element and we’re reaping the results.
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Norseman82
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This situation reminds me of the movie “The Birdcage”…
Anyway, here are a few thoughts for the OP…
Anyway, here are a few thoughts for the OP…
- Have you spent time with the boy to find out what his views are? Maybe you could be a good influence on him that way.
- Where is the boy’s mother in all this? Perhaps extend an invitation to the dad and mom to meet at a restaurant instead of the “two dads’ house”?
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joandarc2008
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Hey norseman does the boy have ten dads?
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Norseman82
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joandarc2008
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Your signature block norseman - it just seems to me that we are beating he proverbial pulseless equine to the point where the OP could have walked his dd down the aisle by now.
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Norseman82
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Oh, OK - LOL!
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m_crane
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Since thr OP and daughter have surely decided their dinner invitation response by the time this post is made I have nothing to advise.
I still think the question of what is the best response to such an invite to eat with sinners.
is an important moral question and I am intersted in what would our Lord have us do.
So I ask…
Did Jesus eat with sinners? Obviously yes.
Did Jesus eat with repentant sinners? We can’t answer that question clearly.
Did the people Jesus ate with know that they were serious sinners? Prostitutes, tax collectors(thieves). I think they were pretty well aware of what society thought about their doings. They knew they were sinners and so did everybody else.
Did Jesus eat with Pharisees? There is no passage that says Jesus ate with the Pharisees,
If this is the case,why didn’t Jesus eat with Pharisees? Wheren’t they sinners too? Clearly they were, Jesus called them hypocites.
So what’s the reason Jesus chose not to dine with the Pharisees. It sounds like they *really *needed a doctor(healer) too.
Could it be that the Pharisees *would not *recognize their own sinfulness or allow anyone else to point it out?.
Did Jesus actually shun the Pharisees? You tell me.
Would there be a reason Jesus would shun a sinner, in this case the Pharisees? Could it have been the Pharisees resistance to acknowledge their behavior as sinful (see mortal sin) and their expectation to have society ignore their mortal sins treat them a holy men?
You tell me.
I still think the question of what is the best response to such an invite to eat with sinners.
is an important moral question and I am intersted in what would our Lord have us do.
So I ask…
Did Jesus eat with sinners? Obviously yes.
Did Jesus eat with repentant sinners? We can’t answer that question clearly.
Did the people Jesus ate with know that they were serious sinners? Prostitutes, tax collectors(thieves). I think they were pretty well aware of what society thought about their doings. They knew they were sinners and so did everybody else.
Did Jesus eat with Pharisees? There is no passage that says Jesus ate with the Pharisees,
If this is the case,why didn’t Jesus eat with Pharisees? Wheren’t they sinners too? Clearly they were, Jesus called them hypocites.
So what’s the reason Jesus chose not to dine with the Pharisees. It sounds like they *really *needed a doctor(healer) too.
Could it be that the Pharisees *would not *recognize their own sinfulness or allow anyone else to point it out?.
Did Jesus actually shun the Pharisees? You tell me.
Would there be a reason Jesus would shun a sinner, in this case the Pharisees? Could it have been the Pharisees resistance to acknowledge their behavior as sinful (see mortal sin) and their expectation to have society ignore their mortal sins treat them a holy men?
You tell me.
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yellowbird
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I thought I was following you… but now I’m
. Are the two Dads like the sinners, or like the Pharisees who refused to recognize their own sin? I would say they were like the prostittues, tax collectors and the woman at the well… just doing their thing and not really considering if it is wrong or not. The Pharisees claimed to be religious (not sure the 2 Dads do?) … and not just religious… but LEADERS of their faith. They should have known better… and because they pretended to be something (faithful holy men) but were not, He called them hypocrites. I don’t know that the 2 Dads consider themselves faithful Holy men? I think they, more likely, are just going about their life and not giving it much thought espeically since their own society tells them their life is a perfectly fine alternative.To those posters who gave the big “thumbs down” to the daughter dating a boy with 2 Dads… what if the daughter was dating a boy whose parents were divorced & remarried? What if the parents used artificial birth control? What if the parents supported pro-abort candidates and were very vocal about their pro-choice views? What if the parents were outspoken Atheists? Would you say no to the dinner?
And if you say you wouldn’t let your daugther date someone with those sorts of parents, I totally respect that. But what happens when your daughter is 22 and living on her own - making her own decisions? Do you still say no to the dinner? I guess what I’m wondering is this: Do you say no to the dinner invitation of all obvious sinners, or just the gay ones?
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jmcrae
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No, by the time they sought out Jesus, they had already repented of their sins. Jesus did not approach people who were still in their sins and not wanting to change. The woman at the well was drawing water at noon by herself, instead of in the cool of the morning with the other women, because she was ashamed and afraid. The woman who was caught in adultery was about to be stoned to death for her sins. Both women were fully aware of their sins, and of how bad things were for them.I thought I was following you… but now I’m
Zacchaeus was certainly aware of the scorn and condemnation in which everyone held him. He climbed the tree to see Jesus because he needed hope for his life.
That’s why Jesus was able to convert them so quickly - they were ready to hear and do what they needed to hear and do.
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m_crane
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Thank you. You explained my take on these “fathers” much better than I did. I don’t think the “fathers” acknowledge what they are doing as sin, not just any sin but moral sin. l also think that in today’s culture we are bullied by today’s pharisses/the homosexual agenda, into accepting their practices as venial sin(no big deal) or no sin at all (they can’t help it). I think practicing homosexuals(not struggling homosexuals) show no remorse or guilt for their sinfulness just like the Pharisees.
If I were a practicing homosexual I would feel very ashamed of it and be very reluctant to invite a family to eat with me and my lover. The very fact that they are comfortable with inviting the family indicates their lack of remorse.
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PassingThru
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Yeah, I hate it when the gays are all “up in your business” like that. And even have the gall to invite you over for dinner! The nerve!
I think you should talk with them ASAP and let them know that they should join the Church as soon as possible so they can start feeling horrible about themselves.
(Overwhelming sarcasm aside, I am always surprised with some comments when people have to deal with a group that falls outside of Church norms. These people are apparently not Catholic, yet you want them to feel bad about themselves, so you could then feel they are somehow “suffering” for there sins? Ouch.)
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jmcrae
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He is responding to the idea that they should accept the dinner invitation because “Jesus ate with sinners.”
Jesus ate with people who were repenting of their sins, and remorseful for their sins. He did not mooch off of sinners, laugh at their jokes to make them like Him, and then let them carry on in the midst of their sins as if everything was fine.
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yellowbird
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Why not go eat the dinner because it’s a nice thing to do? Why not go because maybe the Dads don’t normally hang with Christians and here is a wonderful opportunity to show them what we’re like?
Maybe they’ll even laugh at YOUR jokes and later say to each other, “Ya know, Bob… I really think Christians get a bad rap… those people were actually quite nice.”
“I couldn’t agree more, Phil.”
Why not go because your daughter, and her boyfriend who has been coming to mass with your family every week ASKED you to go?
Can’t you just suck it up, be nice and GO? Would it kill you?
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Julianna
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Did you get a video of Jesus eating and talking with the sinners? No, eh. Then you don’t really know what happened. A few lines in the Bible don’t reveal all.
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