Daughter is getting married

[estesbob]

I’m seeing a very disturbing trend that places “peace with family members” over obeying God and His Church. Please consider what Jesus said:

“Do you think I have come to establish peace on the earth? I assure you, the contrary is true; I have come for division. From now on, a household of five will be divided three against two and two against three; father will be split against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”. (Luke 12:51-53)

OP: You can say to your daughter “if you get married properly and validly in a Catholic Church I will be more than happy to walk you down the aisle”.

The Church has no prohibition against him attending this wedding. Givng a daughter away consists of walking her down the aisle-nothing more. it would be a tragedy for him to shut down all lines of communications with his daughter, his grandchildren and damage his relationship with his wife by refusing to attend this wedding.

My little bother got married by a JP while his non-catholic wife was 5 months pregnant. we all atended the wedding-he later got married in the church and his wife converted to catholocism. his 4 children were raised catholic. i am glad that our Pastor not only told us it was ok to attend but encourgaed us to do so.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I think that the OP isn’t concerned about attending, as much as ‘giving his daughter’ away…isn’t that like giving your blessing that getting married outside of the Church is ok? One thing to sit and watch a wedding take place…but to actively give one’s daughter away? I dunno. I hope I’m never in this spot, op…my prayers are with you on this.

Next April, though…there is still plenty of time for her to have a small Catholic Church ceremony, no? And she can do the outside wedding after that? April is a long ways off…I just think there could be a way to arrange things. *

 

[rayne89]

I married outside the church at 18. My parents were not happy. They didn’t want me to get married at all -no matter where it took place. My parents also left it to the church to teach me about the faith. You know, weekly catechism class was good enough. It wasn’t and I really didn’t know very much at all about Catholicism. My dad was very angry but in the end, he did give me away. He offered, I was too afraid to even ask. We had our marriage convalidated 13 years later in the church, and my husband is now also Catholic. (And they love him very much.) I think more damage is done by not participating, I think it sets up a lot of hurt and may close doors to the adult child one day returning to the church. Also giving a child away isn’t a church practice, its a cultural practice.

 

[purplesunshine]

My brother is getting married outside the church, and I’m attending the wedding. If I were to be involved I’d probably ask if they went to a wedding-preparation or otherwise had reasons to believe that this would last. If I was somehow in charge (like a parent) I’d ask for them to meet with a priest just for good will and perhaps a prayer for a good marriage. Its NOT A wedding, but some effort is better than nothing.

I agree that damage is done when you don’t attend. My friend who’s just over 50 did not attend one sister’s wedding due to beliefs and her other sisters didn’t invite her. Its taken nearly 30 years and major live events, cancer and deathly ill children, to even bring things into speaking terms.

I’d go to the wedding and shower her with catholic gifts, medals, rosaries, books but no money. You want her to suceed and bring this union into accordance with God, not drive her away.

In another respect, I’m a friend with a catholic who fell away in grade school. She’s SLOWLY reverting and often dabbles in new age things. However, I know the single most harmful thing to her faith was being told by a baptist that she’s going to hell for not being a Christian and doing those occult-type things. At that point she was very alone and confused and to her that proved that Christians were those who condemned, not those who loved.

 

[KCT]

If you don’t attend her wedding she will hold it against you forever, and the road to bringing her back to Christ in any form will be MUCH harder.

That would be HER choice. Why can’t she understand/ accept her dad’s position out of respect for him?

She chose to reject what her father holds sacred. She’s free to do that, but it doesn’t mean her dad has to take part in it.

 

[ahollars]

I’m seeing a very disturbing trend that places “peace with family members” over obeying God and His Church. Please consider what Jesus said:

“Do you think I have come to establish peace on the earth? I assure you, the contrary is true; I have come for division. From now on, a household of five will be divided three against two and two against three; father will be split against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”. (Luke 12:51-53)

OP: You can say to your daughter “if you get married properly and validly in a Catholic Church I will be more than happy to walk you down the aisle”.

“He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.”

~Matthew 10:37~

I concur.

To the OP: Do not walk her down the aisle. Holding your arm is a privilege, not a right. As for the rest, all I can say is that I personally would not go, but that is up to you. Even if your wife decides to go against you, she will have to explain why you are not there to everyone. I would only go if I thought it would cause scandal by my absence, which is unlikely. You’ve given your answer, and you’re in the right. What happens next is up to them. I seriously doubt your daughter didn’t know that you would have a problem with this, which means she’s doing it on purpose. Stand your ground. You’ll be setting an example for others.

 

[stelline]

I’m seeing a very disturbing trend that places “peace with family members” over obeying God and His Church. Please consider what Jesus said:

“Do you think I have come to establish peace on the earth? I assure you, the contrary is true; I have come for division. From now on, a household of five will be divided three against two and two against three; father will be split against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”. (Luke 12:51-53)

OP: You can say to your daughter “if you get married properly and validly in a Catholic Church I will be more than happy to walk you down the aisle”.

OP, these are times in life where you need to pray hard for strength from God. If Christ, himself was crucified by mankind when he preached the Truth, why shouldn’t we expect the same treatment? If you want the same crown of Christ, you must be prepared to endure the same suffering.

I would NEVER throw my religion under the bus to accommodate someone’s feelings. Read the above quote again. Christ did not come to establish peace. Keeping the peace is a good and worthy cause when you don’t have to sin to do it. That’s where the line is drawn. I would be insulted by anyone who would dare say that I should slap Christ in the face so that they can feel good about their sinful acts.

Causing scandal is a sin. You have to ask yourself if you are willing to sin for the sake of avoiding confrontation.

My husband refused to attend his mother’s invalid wedding to a man who was still validly married to another woman. EVERBODY hee-ed and haw-ed, and his own mother said that she’d never forgive him. Now, after 10 destructive years of “marriage” that has emotionally distanced her from her other children, she is finally going to file for divorce. In the meantime, her relationship with my husband has been just fine all those years.

My husband had a pair, and I respected him for it.

LOVE is not about feelings. It’s about doing what’s moral even if it demands great sacrifice and pain.

Your daughter is the hypocrite, not you. She demands tolerance and yet gives you none concerning your religion. She is the one pushing you away by her actions, not vice versa. You are not being judgemental–that would mean that you are declaring that she is going to hell. All you are doing is saying that you will not take part in an illicit act. What the state of her soul will be the moment before death is anybody’s guess.

I wouldn’t wish your situation on anyone. I will pray for you and your family. Sorry I am so blunt (I am always apologizing for that) but I just want to be straightforward. My views on marriage in this post are obviously coming from a Catholic viewpoint.

 

[Lil_Cat]

I have an honest question for the OP.

Why are you pushing her to have a Catholic wedding? She would have to promise to raise her kids Catholic and she obviously doesn’t believe in Catholicism, so in essence she would be lying if she agreed to do it. The priest might not know that she is has no intention of following through but you would know. Granted, she could change her mind but it sounds like she has no intention at this time.

 

[mesurman]

I’m seeing a very disturbing trend that places “peace with family members” over obeying God and His Church. Please consider what Jesus said:

“Do you think I have come to establish peace on the earth? I assure you, the contrary is true; I have come for division. From now on, a household of five will be divided three against two and two against three; father will be split against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”. (Luke 12:51-53)

OP: You can say to your daughter “if you get married properly and validly in a Catholic Church I will be more than happy to walk you down the aisle”.

Life is messy. If we are absolute hardliners to our closest family members not to mention all others we come in contact with we are going to alienate everyone and give a bad example of Christian Love. If I remember correctly Jesus ate with sinners and lived by example and converted them. We are called to do the same. I am living a very similar situation to the OP right now. My family history (sisters & parents) is bad. Both of my parents died with just about all of us alienated in one form or another. It has been many years and my sisters still have deep issues that manifest themselves in some horrible ways. I will not allow that to happen in my family. I am firm in my faith and my kids know that. I am not happy with the situtation like the OP but I have to do my best with the aid of the Holy Spirit in living my faith while not pushing my daughter further away to who the heck knows where. It is a hard thing spending all those years trying to do the right thing and your kids spit in your face. Alas, but for the Grace of God. Remember grandchildren are the gift from God for not killing your teenagers.

 

[johnknoesel]

I have an honest question for the OP.

Why are you pushing her to have a Catholic wedding? She would have to promise to raise her kids Catholic and she obviously doesn’t believe in Catholicism, so in essence she would be lying if she agreed to do it. The priest might not know that she is has no intention of following through but you would know. Granted, she could change her mind but it sounds like she has no intention at this time.

First off you obviously did not read my original post, I never stated anything about pushing her to have a Catholic wedding. SHE IS NO LONGER CATHOLIC as I stated in the OP. Only a blathering idiot would attempt to force a non-catholic to have a Catholic wedding. I am only concerned with lending validity to a marriage that is outside the Church. I have found documents that state that the Church has no issue with my attending her “secular wedding ceremony” out in the middle of a field. That is no longer the issue, the issue I am facing now is the “giving her away part” I think by my reading of several documents that “giving her away” would not be allowed by the Church or even by Christ himself because it is “SECULAR” ceremony.

 

[rayne89]

The thing is giving a daughter away is not a church custom. This is a secular tradition. I can’t figure out where you got “Christ would not allow it” because the tradition comes from dowry not religion. I’m not saying you have to but where is the info on the churches stance on giving a bride away? The whole idea is a secular, cultural tradition.

 

[KCT]

When our daughter turned 18 she completely rejected the church and all of its teaching…

Did she formally defect or just stop going to Mass? If she just stopped going to Mass, she is still considered Catholic by the Church.

 

[johnknoesel]

The thing is giving a daughter away is not a church custom. This is a secular tradition. I can’t figure out where you got “Christ would not allow it” because the tradition comes from dowry not religion. I’m not saying you have to but where is the info on the churches stance on giving a bride away? The whole idea is a secular, cultural tradition.

Whether or not it is a secular tradition or not is not the point. What I am trying to determine here is am I going against the Church by participating at that level since the whole thing is outside the Church.

 

[johnknoesel]

Did she formally defect or just stop going to Mass? If she just stopped going to Mass, she is still considered Catholic by the Church.

Complete and total rejection of the Catholic Church and its authority.

 

[agapewolf]

Complete and total rejection of the Catholic Church and its authority.

See, thats what the issue is here…it could be a valid marriage if she formerly defected.

 

[kage_ar]

Complete and total rejection of the Catholic Church and its authority.

That does not constitute formal defection.

Here are a couple of links that explain how she would formally leave the Catholic Church.

From the Vatican:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

Explained by Mr. Akin:

jimmyakin.org/2006/04/formal_defectio_1.html

 

[estesbob]

Whether or not it is a secular tradition or not is not the point. What I am trying to determine here is am I going against the Church by participating at that level since the whole thing is outside the Church.

I am glad you are going to the wedding. As far as gving her away I beleive that, as many have pointed out, that is a tradition that means nothing to the Church. It would be a problem if you had been asked to be in the wedding party as their purpose is to fomally witness the marriage.

In the end you have to do what you ar comfortable with but I doin not see any Church teaching that would prohibit you from walking your Daughter down the aisle

 

[sharmin]

I’m seeing a very disturbing trend that places “peace with family members” over obeying God and His Church.

Um, no one is going against the church or advocating that. THe church is not against attending this wedding.

 

[kage_ar]

Um, no one is going against the church or advocating that. THe church is not against attending this wedding.

The Church does not condone attending weddings that produce an invalid marriage.

One should counsult with a respected orthodox Priest to make sure that there is no sin of scandal by attending such a false ceremony:

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

[2284](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2284.htm’) Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

[2285](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2285.htm’) Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.

[2286](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2286.htm’) Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.” This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.
2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!”

 

[johnknoesel]

That does not constitute formal defection.

Here are a couple of links that explain how she would formally leave the Catholic Church.

From the Vatican:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

Explained by Mr. Akin:

jimmyakin.org/2006/04/formal_defectio_1.html

a) the internal decision to leave the Catholic Church;
b) the realization and external manifestation of that decision; and
c) the reception of that decision by the competent ecclesiastical authority.

a and b have been, in order for her to complete C. she would then have to recognize the authority of the church, however she does not recognize that authority whatsoever.

As far as Jimmy Akins take, I had to hard of a time following his discourse.