Daughter overstaying her welcome

[Angels_Unaware]

If they kick her out, how is she supposed to succeed in school and have a good future? If she is studying anything worth studying then it would simply be too much to work and keep up with studies at the same time. Maybe there are people who do it, but form my experience those are also people who are either in easy programs in community colleges, or don’t do well in their classes.

I never met a successful college student at a serious school that did it without being supported by their parents.

Ok, to the situation- I agree that it is not unreasonable to support your 20/yo daughter while she’s in college. I have a daughter a year younger and I want to do this for her. I also agree there’s nothing wrong with putting a lock on your door. I bet it was to keep the younger siblings out of her stuff.

The attitude can go, and I expect my daughter to run errands, help with housework, and have an adult attitude. But I am honored to support her while she gets an education.

I quoted the above from flyingfish, though, because it just isn’t true and the attitude irritates me. My undergraduate GPA in Psychology was 3.9, and I graduated from the honors program. I had zero support from my parents. I was married and taking care of my oldest daughter, and supporting myself cleaning houses.

I take the above personally, because it’s a classist judgement. Flyingfish, there are lots of kids from working class families who work their way through school in programs that are “worth studying”.

 

[HappyRevert]

I’ve got a 20 year old son who is in college so am in somewhat of the same position. Like most posters have said, it depends a lot on the specifics of the situation. From what you said though, it sounds like the problem is the daughter’s attitude more than anything. They need to sit down and talk to her adult to adult to figure out what is going on. I know it sounds crazy, but the girl may not actually understand what the parents expect of her. 20 year olds are not know for their insight into other people’s perspectives, and she may be oblivious that she’s offending her parents. I don’t see anything wrong with charging rent to an adult aged child (we don’t happen to do that - a personal choice)- particularly if they are trying to instill in their child an appreciation of what they are given by their parents.

I will say that when he is home our son is very cooperative. I have to remind him to do things, but he is a willing helper. I think conflicts are just part of everyone adjusting to each other again. His siblings have said it can be difficult when he first shows up when school is out so I think that’s normal. He has been able to get a job but you can’t overlook the fact that unfortunately our economy is a problem. Some young adults may want to work but can’t find work for the summer which may be their daughter’s situation.

After my rambling, I would just say that I would counsel patience and communication to the parents because their daughter may sincerely misunderstand the situation - most people will listen to reason.

 

[Sierrah]

Kate is a 20/yo GIRL who is a STUDENT and lives with her parents during the summer like most students do during the summer. She put a lock on her door? Who in their right mind does not have a lock on their door for privacy? The disrespect needs to be dealt with. But not by making a normal parent’s situation into a landlord situation. Good grief!

Ok, she’s a student, she’s 20, she’s only babysitting, she’s on summer break, she put a lock on her door.

1. Her parents should help her out here since she’s under 21 and still in school.
2. At her age responsibility isn’t something that might just come to mind. Her parents need to be straight with her and let her know what they expect. Most 20yrs I know are still in the selfish stage of life too but if you ask them and stress the importance of what you want they usually will comply and understand.
   3)She baby sitting with I used to do and most jobs won’t accept that as work experience and with the economy the way it is jobs aren’t the easy to come by. So they should ask here to look around for another job but not expect one to fall in her lap and she probably doesn’t have the money to pay any kind of rent on a part time baby sitters salary.
3. She’s on summer break and still young. Give her a break.
4. I don’t blame here one bit for this she living in a house with teenagers and probably wants privacy. She should have talked with her parents first but I don’t blame her one bit.
5. It’s up to the parents to claim respect but they need to respect her space too. Maybe she doesn’t feel she getting that. Whatever the case her parents need to be a little understanding and at the same time lay down the rules of what they expect.

 

[perfectpeach]

I really don’t understand what the big deal of her living at their home is… A long time ago, parents were parents until children could stand on their own two feet. Now parents are parents until their children are 18 just because some law says we are grown up at that age? 20 years old is still SO young… Let her finish college and get a good amount of savings before kicking her out…

 

[Michael_Saint]

We are too quick to give advice here, especially on such little information.

I think before the “how” can be answered, the question “why” has to be dealt with. Why is this girl acting this way? There is usually a reason why 20 year olds act this way, and if those issues are addressed, that can go a long way to clearing up the problems. In fact, if those things are not dealt with, the problems just continue. Parents are also quick to blame their child if they misbehave, without taking into account that they are partly to blame for the monster created, if you know what I mean.

That being stated, I will ask some questions. Did the parents spoil her rotten growing up? That could account for this behaviour. Was there a divorce and remarriage? Children often harbour a lot of (righteous) anger as a result of these unfortunate and selfish “family blendings”. Did her parents spend a lot of time with her growing up, or were one or both of them so involved in their careers and their own lives and interests that they had little time for quality time with the kids?

That might be the best place to start - the parents realizing the mistakes that they made, addressing them, and working to correct them as best they can, and go from there (if indeed they have made mistakes). If the problems stem from something, how can you proceed without addressing the roots of the problem? “Give 'em a deadline and kick 'em out” is kind of silly unless it is a case of the child being spoiled growing up - but then again, spoiling makes children so soft and dependent on the parents that they are not able to function on their own. It is a vicious cycle that holds parents in bondage.

 

[flyingfish]

I quoted the above from flyingfish, though, because it just isn’t true and the attitude irritates me. My undergraduate GPA in Psychology was 3.9, and I graduated from the honors program. I had zero support from my parents. I was married and taking care of my oldest daughter, and supporting myself cleaning houses.

I take the above personally, because it’s a classist judgement. Flyingfish, there are lots of kids from working class families who work their way through school in programs that are “worth studying”.

I didn’t mean to insult you, but I still think that what you did is not something that the average person can do. When I was in college, most of my time was spent either in class or doing assignments, or preparing for tests. That is what everyone I knew who was academically successful was like. There was hardly any time for anything other than studying.

There are some exceptional people who can be far more productive than most of us, but I don’t think it’s fair of you to say everyone else can do it just because you could.

You say your parents didn’t help you at all, but was it because they were poor and did you take out loans? To pay for school and food and a place to live by cleaning houses how many hours did you have to work? How many hours did you spend on school? I just don’t see how you did it, cleaning houses is a minimum wage job, a minimum wage job even when full time can hardly pay for rent and food much less tuition/books and all that.

I don’t know what the rules for loans are like where she lives, but where I’m from if parents are judged sufficiently “rich” a person might not be considered eligible for a loan because parents are expected to provide for the child as they should. Similar with grants and other help from the school, unless you are an older student your parents are expected to support you and the school will not give you money unless they are poor.

 

[aicirt]

Hi! I am actually the wife of “Scott D”. I hope it’s okay to use this forum; Scott doesn’t mind! …This is a “what would YOU do” kind of question. My sister asked me for advice on this situation: Her oldest daughter Katie, 20, is living at home, and making life very disruptive for her family. There are 3 younger sibs, 16, 14, and 12, who are on the receiving end of a lot of hostility from Kate. Kate has been in school, is on break for the summer, and her only job is babysitting–not very lucrative for her.She does not give any $$ for her room and board, and occasionally is asked to help out with driving, but she is not truly generous in pulling her weight in the family. Her attitude is one of ‘entitlement’. Her mom (and dad) also get a lot of animosity from Kate. The final straw was finding out that Katie put a lock on her bedroom door without permission. --My sis recognizes that Katie should be on her own, but weighing the practical, emotional, financial issues is a challenge. I suggested that Katie be given a time period (6 mos?) in which she would be, basically, a boarder–paying rent, heat, food, etc. Then when 6 mos are up, it wouldn’t be such a shock to be in the real world. My sis said they tried charging rent, and never followed through on collecting it!

I assume Kate, at 20, is a junior? Shouldn’t she be doing an internship in preparation of her senior year?

I don’t know how she should be expected to pay room and board if she’s in school full time. If they were serious about her paying for the three summer months, a job should have been secured for the summer.

The lock should be removed. I’m sure there already is one on the door.

I’ll assume too that Mom and Dad are picking up the tab for everything. She should be paying for her own clothes. And she should be paying for her own gas and phone bills. Give her that to handle and stick to it. Don’t pay for her clothes, gas or phone.

Write the above into a contract and add that as of next June, when she’s out of school, she may plan on living at home for three months. During that time she will be expected to pay x amount (stipulate amount now) for room and board. If all works out, she may renew living conditions for the following three months if Mom and Dad agree.

My sister and family are not practicing Catholics; they are Unitarian. Which should not make much difference in this case, but just FYI. Anyone with similar situations out there? I’d pass on any advice to my sister! --Lisa D. : )

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I didn’t mean to insult you, but I still think that what you did is not something that the average person can do. When I was in college, most of my time was spent either in class or doing assignments, or preparing for tests. That is what everyone I knew who was academically successful was like. There was hardly any time for anything other than studying.

There are some exceptional people who can be far more productive than most of us, but I don’t think it’s fair of you to say everyone else can do it just because you could.

You say your parents didn’t help you at all, but was it because they were poor and did you take out loans? To pay for school and food and a place to live by cleaning houses how many hours did you have to work? How many hours did you spend on school? I just don’t see how you did it, cleaning houses is a minimum wage job, a minimum wage job even when full time can hardly pay for rent and food much less tuition/books and all that.

I don’t know what the rules for loans are like where she lives, but where I’m from if parents are judged sufficiently “rich” a person might not be considered eligible for a loan because parents are expected to provide for the child as they should. Similar with grants and other help from the school, unless you are an older student your parents are expected to support you and the school will not give you money unless they are poor.

Yes, I had $20,000 in student loans from my college degree. I didn’t work for minimum wage, I was self-employed. I charged $20.00 an hour for cleaning. This was in the early 90s. I worked 15 hours a week, went to classes either MWF or TTh and studied after 8pm until 10 or 11. My grandmother took care of my daughter for free, and she was also in Church preschool after the age of 3. I was out of the house less than 40 hours a week, if I recall. More like 25-30. My husband worked in a warehouse back then. We bought a house when I was 19 under the FHA program.

I don’t think it really is that unusual. I knew a lot of people who put themselves through school working very hard- usually in restaurants. That doesn’t mean I think this mother should make her daughter work as hard as I did, of course. I have never expected anything comparable for my own daughter. Who would?

When you fill out the FAFSA, or at least back then it was this way, if you are married your parents income doesn’t count.

It’s a good question why my parents didn’t help. My mother could not, she is severely bi-polar. When I left home to get married we first lived in an apartment and it was step up instead of down. My father didn’t live in the area. However, he did pay for brothers’ college tuitions. I guess you’d have to ask him why he didn’t help me. He didn’t seem to care when I left home to get married, or what I did afterwards.

BTW, not to imply that *you *are doing this, but the actual experience of working through college was not that difficult in retrospect. What was difficult, was the occassional disbelief or condescenion that it were possible, or the implication that if I didn’t have help from my parents I must have somehow deserved it.

But that’s a clear de-railment from the topic. My apologies, OP.

 

[Abbadon]

It’s usually a “hint” to the person to move out.

I agree with others that more information about Kate is needed. If she’s a full-time student at “State U” studying pre-med with a good GPA and is home for the summer, that’s different than if she’s a full-time student in the same city and living at home year-round, and that’s different than if she’s a part-time student at a community college or for-profit college living at home year-round.

But her parents have to watch out…

My fiancee’s sister graduated from Harvard (of all places) and was a complete “moocher” while in college, she expected her sisters to pay to fly her back and forth from school, she expected her sisters to give her shelter, food, clothes, and transportation in the summers, and she even expected a salary for doing all of that (she’d move in with a sister and either be “childcare” or “petcare” while she was there). When Christmas came around, people got $5 desk calendars or just hand-made cards, while she expected elaborate gifts (she’d tell you what to buy). Meanwhile, she didn’t work and racked up huge amounts of debt because she had 0 responsibility.

At the end of all of it, the Harvard graduate doesn’t have a job (she never worked a day in her life, and companies want those with at least some experience), she lives with one of her sisters, and is deeply, deeply in debt. She isn’t looking for a job (she has “no interest in working”), she already has a master’s degree to delay college (and has “no interest in more school”). And what does Ms. Responsible do now? She frequently travels out of the country because she has no care in the world.

Obviously, that’s a worst case scenario, but it’s a telling story of what happens when you let someone mooch.

HHAHAHAHAH sounds kinda like me, I’ve been at uni for 5 years now, second degree and I’ll probably do post grad. But I win scholarships and when I want stuff I work a bit plus technically I own half our home. But the desire not to work I can so understand, bless Hestia science research isn’t really work.

 

[Abbadon]

seriously?

Yea… Doesn’t your mom/dad? Especially when they want their daughter to maintain her 4.0 GPA. In discussions with a senior researcher I asked him what makes a great scientist, his reply was “a wife”. And he is exactly right.

 

[Abbadon]

Kick her out. She sounds like she’s a problem child.

This is the worst possible advice. Problem children should be held close, show great love, helped nurtured and taken care of the most.

I can personally speak about my brother, he was into drugs and crime, been to court twice looked like he was going nowhere in university, failing constantly. My parents held him so close, he even left for a few months but shortly came home, I was annoyed and jealous at the time but I now understand and see why it was so important to help him.

He’s now now in a successful carrier as a pilot, drug free and calls home every day possible.

Oh yea there’s a biblical analogy here I just realized, the prodigal son. Wow the bible does indeed sometimes have stories with good morals in them.

 

[organdy]

It really is a tough thing for parents and semi-grown children to get along. First off - I know you’re posting for someone else, but the very title of this thread (“daughter overstaying her welcome”? at the age of twenty?) is so hostile it makes me wince. When I was her age I had trouble on my summers home, and maybe my memories will be helpful…? Because Parents and College Kids do not see the summer the same way.

1. To my mind - I had been at school, which was hard work, and now I was home and on vacation.
2. To my parents - I had been at school, which was an opportunity and a great gift that they had been denied - but they were able to give it to me - and now I was back in the real world and could contribute to the household like I did in high school.

that’s a huge split.

1. To my mind - I was happy to be with my younger siblings again, and we had so much fun!
2. To my parents - my leaving had been a disruption that was difficult for everyone, and now that I was back I was messing up the discipline and schedules of the younger kids.

Oh, I could go on and on. It’s hard, but I’d urge your sister to keep perspective. What really matters is:

1. The cohesion and workability of the family as it is now, and
2. The cohesion and strength of the family in the future.

Giving in to the short-term feelings (though valid) of “MY ROUTINES ARE UPSET!” and “WHO DOES SHE THINK SHE IS?” doesn’t help the family now OR in the future. If the girl’s attitude is bad or her behavior is unacceptable, sit down with her (without screaming, preferably out of the house) and TELL her what’s making this summer hard for you. If she’s having a negative impact on the younger kids - enlist her help as a fellow adult in the household. If you need her to contribute more financially - enlist her help as a fellow adult in the household.

Maybe she’ll balk and be a twit - I don’t know. But even at 20, she’s still a kid, and I think Mom’s responsible for at least trying to work out a way that everyone can stay together a little longer.

 

[flyingfish]

Yes, I had $20,000 in student loans from my college degree. I didn’t work for minimum wage, I was self-employed. I charged $20.00 an hour for cleaning. This was in the early 90s. I worked 15 hours a week, went to classes either MWF or TTh and studied after 8pm until 10 or 11. My grandmother took care of my daughter for free, and she was also in Church preschool after the age of 3. I was out of the house less than 40 hours a week, if I recall. More like 25-30. My husband worked in a warehouse back then. We bought a house when I was 19 under the FHA program.

I don’t think it really is that unusual. I knew a lot of people who put themselves through school working very hard- usually in restaurants. That doesn’t mean I think this mother should make her daughter work as hard as I did, of course. I have never expected anything comparable for my own daughter. Who would?

When you fill out the FAFSA, or at least back then it was this way, if you are married your parents income doesn’t count.

It’s a good question why my parents didn’t help. My mother could not, she is severely bi-polar. When I left home to get married we first lived in an apartment and it was step up instead of down. My father didn’t live in the area. However, he did pay for brothers’ college tuitions. I guess you’d have to ask him why he didn’t help me. He didn’t seem to care when I left home to get married, or what I did afterwards.

BTW, not to imply that *you *are doing this, but the actual experience of working through college was not that difficult in retrospect. What was difficult, was the occassional disbelief or condescenion that it were possible, or the implication that if I didn’t have help from my parents I must have somehow deserved it.

But that’s a clear de-railment from the topic. My apologies, OP.

Well, working for 15 hours a week certainly is doable while being in school. But… I doubt most people can support themselves on 15 hours a week of work even in terms of rent and food much less tuition. People might have part time jobs while in school, and people who really need the money tend to be eligible for loans.

The reason I brought this up, is that if her parents are sufficiently rich and kick her out she will not be eligible for loans, and then she will pretty much have to get a truly full time job of 40 hours a week, and maybe even an additional job if that one was minimum wage. Plus, if she has a full time job, when is she going to attend class? She would probably be forced to become a part time student and even then she might be unable to afford tuition.

My point was, most people would not be able to make it through such hardship and come out as successful individuals. And the parents that do that to their children because they “overstayed their welcome” are people that should not have become parents in the first place. If you aren’t prepared to raise your children to successful adults and make sacrifices then you shouldn’t become a parent. Anyway, I wrote all that because it’s not the first time I see this kind of sentiment on a Catholic board of all places. A while back there was a guy that kicked out his 18 year old who clearly had mental health issues and needed help.

 

[w2bp88]

Kick her out. She sounds like she’s a problem child.

I think that is a horrible thing to say. Parents should try and work things out, not just get rid of their child when things get tough.

To OP, from what you wrote, it doesn’t seem like she is that bad. Aside from the hostility, which I’m sure can be hard, you didn’t say that she is getting into trouble or really causing the family harm. Maybe they can work on the hostility by talking to her and working through deeper issues.

I also don’t see what the big deal is about putting a lock on her door. I can understand what it is like being a college student and coming back home to your family. I would want a little privacy too and maybe she is not getting it. since you say she is back home during the break, I can see why there is a problem. There is such a big difference between being away at school and being at home. You have so much more freedom and you feel like an adult but when you get back home you are treated like a child and it is frustrating.

I’m also a college student and I know I haven’t been easy on my parents. Instead of giving up on me, they supported me and helped me through, mistake after mistake. Without their help, I wouldn’t have been as successful in school as I have been thus far.

Most college students cannot get by without help from their parents. Maybe they should set up responsibilities for her or ask her to get a part time job. I don’t think they should make her pay rent because my parents would never ask me to do that and I think it’s a little absurd (unless there are money issues and the parents need help paying for their living space).

I think the best thing is to just have an open and honest talk because that always seemed to work with me.

 

[Serap]

Yes, I had $20,000 in student loans from my college degree. I didn’t work for minimum wage, I was self-employed. I charged $20.00 an hour for cleaning. This was in the early 90s. I worked 15 hours a week, went to classes either MWF or TTh and studied after 8pm until 10 or 11. My grandmother took care of my daughter for free, and she was also in Church preschool after the age of 3. I was out of the house less than 40 hours a week, if I recall. More like 25-30. My husband worked in a warehouse back then. We bought a house when I was 19 under the FHA program.

I don’t think it really is that unusual. I knew a lot of people who put themselves through school working very hard- usually in restaurants. That doesn’t mean I think this mother should make her daughter work as hard as I did, of course. I have never expected anything comparable for my own daughter. Who would?

When you fill out the FAFSA, or at least back then it was this way, if you are married your parents income doesn’t count.

It’s a good question why my parents didn’t help. My mother could not, she is severely bi-polar. When I left home to get married we first lived in an apartment and it was step up instead of down. My father didn’t live in the area. However, he did pay for brothers’ college tuitions. I guess you’d have to ask him why he didn’t help me. He didn’t seem to care when I left home to get married, or what I did afterwards.

BTW, not to imply that *you *are doing this, but the actual experience of working through college was not that difficult in retrospect. What was difficult, was the occassional disbelief or condescenion that it were possible, or the implication that if I didn’t have help from my parents I must have somehow deserved it.

But that’s a clear de-railment from the topic. My apologies, OP.

FlyFish is right…we are not the norm. I too (in previous post) put myself through university (although Canada is a lot cheaper) and it isn’t the norm for a young girl to be able to do that and keep her head above water.

I only knew of a few people in my program who were doing what I was doing and it was a very small percentage. I remember the girls from good families looking down on me because I was a bartender. They thought I was “lose” or something when all I was doing was making ends meet.

I wouldn’t want to put my daughter in that predicament. It’s like throwing her to the wolves. We were thrown to the wolves and we made it. We are a small percentage of women that could do that.

 

[GodIsGracious]

I never met a successful college student at a serious school that did it without being supported by their parents.

You just did, me.

There are plenty of people who have been a success in college without the support of their parents. In fact, I had to LEAVE in order to be successful. I didn’t stay with her on summer break either. I got a job and supported myself.

Now, I was older, mid to late 20’s, but still. It’s not like I had any more skills than any other college student.

 

[Serap]

You just did, me.

There are plenty of people who have been a success in college without the support of their parents. In fact, I had to LEAVE in order to be successful. I didn’t stay with her on summer break either. I got a job and supported myself.

Now, I was older, mid to late 20’s, but still. It’s not like I had any more skills than any other college student.

A 20 year old doesn’t have the same level of maturity or streetsmarts. You are comparing oranges to apples.

 

[momv10]

We decided long ago to make it clear that we will not be paying for college.
I know this sounds awful. I always have told my kids that as long as they wish to pursue college, they CAN live here. No charge or anything like that but if they wanted to make choices like an adult they would need to develop adult skills to make it happen. We have 10 kids.

Here’s how it works for us…

Our oldest stayed home the longest so far (23yrs old) but he was willing to still participate with the family in ways that were wonderful! When his next youngest bro’s came back from the Navy, they all moved to FL. They still live together. No college debt for him…

The next up was the twins. Identical boys. They decided to enter the Navy and earned the money for college. One is now a Reg. Nurse and the other is in Security. No debt from college.

Our daughter went to Calif and rented room from a family member because it was less expensive than attending here in Vermont. She made choices and eventually moved to New Mex, married a nice man has a baby and has a Master’s Degree. Yes, some debt but almost paid-off.

Next brother decided to join her in New Mex and is in his 2nd year at UNM, Computer Science. Works full-time, great student own apt. No college debt at this time… can pay in full. Works as a tele-typer for the hearing impaired.

This weekend the next up is graduating from HS. In August, he will be moving in with the 20yr old and working till he, too, can be a resident and start going to college. He has saved every dime (mostly) from working at McDonalds since he was 16yrs old. (By the way, I don’t pay for clothes after they turn 16yrs old. Ever.) He has close to 5000 now and hopes for a bit more before he moves in August.

Now, we are sending the next (girl) to HS and are down to the last 3 that we homeschool.

They are devout, responsible and very mature.

I can’t speak for how anyone else parents but this is how it works for us.

We are Blessed…
Diane

 

[Abbadon]

I get theoretical free university education… so YAY… no collage debt… Socialism rules…

 

[Island_Oak]

I had several younger siblings and if I could have I would have installed a lock on my door when I came home from college for breaks. To me it seems entirely reasonable. Nothing else described seems out of the way, except attitudes and tone of voice, how the family communicates, how they resolve issues that arise when living family style. That cannot be conveyed, but that is where I would advise the family to look. expecting her to follow the same rules, curfew etc. as teens is excessive. Is it a case of her acting childish, or of the parents resisting her growing up, again no way to know, but if they came to me that is what I would look at. OP does not say she is bringing men home, smoking pot or doing anything immoral so unless there is an untold story it sounds as if the family has some unresolved long standing issues that are now coming to a head as the oldest child grows up.

It would be completly different if she were 20 and unemployed and not going to college…

As others have said, if she is a successful college student who is just home on summer break, I think it’s not at all unreasonable to expect a period of adjustment for everyone. I also don’t think the lock is a big deal. Maybe the little sibs were constantly in her room… a room that had previously been up for grabs while she was at school?

She sounds like a normal 20 year old to me She put a lock on her door for some privacy. I don’t see the big deal about that either.

…Charging rent is crazy (she’s their child, not a tenant). Kicking her out is like saying, “We don’t care about you. Go and fight your own way through this world because we can’t be bothered.”

No parent should throw their child away because they can’t be bothered anymore. It’s just wrong.

Agree whole-heartedly. I spent my freshman summer @ home, and after that stayed at school and worked. It was just too strange and stressful going from the freedom of college life back into my parents’ home. There was no right or wrong, just a clash of styles.

As long as this young lady is taking advantage of no rent, utilities, car payments, etc. she will have to abide by rules of the house. Sometimes that can be a great motivator to take responsibility for yourself and start funding your own lifestyle!!