Dave's Allegation That Catholics Are Idolators

  • Thread starter Thread starter Church_Militant
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
With the Incarnation, the Image of God acquired a human face. What had been “un-imageable” becomes matter, and via the Incarnation, matter becomes, in a particular and living way, sanctified to the experience of the holy.
Click to expand...
Precisely! The reason we Catholics truly have honor for things we can see and feel, etc., has to do with the Incarnation in that Catholicism understands and appreciates the reality of the Incarnation, whereas most of Protestantism merely pays it lip service without truly appreciating what it means for God to have become Man; as St. Paul says of Christ: “He is the visible image of the invisible God; and so in seeing Him we are caught up in love for the God we cannot see.”

This situation (the Incarnation) changes everything. It shows that the New Covenant in Christ is different from God’s Covenant with Israel. In the Christian Covenant, we have Emmanuel (“God-with-us”), and, therefore, not only Christ’s Incarnation reflects the glory of the Father, but also the Church – the extension of Christ’s Incarnation (i.e., the Body of Christ) – reflects God’s glory. Thus Mary and the other Saints who reflect Christ, thereby reflect the Father’s glory; and so, images of Christ and the Saints are at the service of this incarnational glory of God; and the law against “graven images” is turned against itself in Christ.

Under the Old Law the Israelites were not to make graven images because no earthly creation could reflect the glory of God. Yet, after the Incarnation, this is possible, but only in Christ and in His Saints – those who are part of His Body.

So, the key to understanding Catholic iconography is to appreciate the reality of Christ’s Incarnation. In rejecting the legitimacy of icons and other religious images, the Protestant world comes very close to rejecting the Incarnation Itself. Indeed, Christ became FLESH in order to save FLESH (us). If everything is merely spiritual, why did Jesus need to come in the flesh at all??
 
40.png
Xavier:
The blind leading the blind:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
You are a mind reader X! I was just about to post this for you:

The blind gain no advantage from the rays of the sun: they do not even see the brightness of the light!

There are people who do not want to open their eyes to the light of truth but are quite happy to live in darkness. They are like the blind. They are like the birds that fly by night and take their name from it, night-jars, or like bats.

It would be stupid to be angry with these animals. Nature has assigned them that destiny. But human beings who purposely choose the mirky gloom, what reason can they give to justify themselves?

What prevents them removing the mist from their eyes is arrogance. They fancy they know the truth better than others because they have studied a lot. But they are like fish in the sea: they live in salt water, but nevertheless, once they have been caught they still need to be salted.

**Theodoret **
 
In times pasts people knelt or bowed to kings, Lords etc. This did not mean that the Kings and Lords were worshipped, but that veneration was shown to their office. In Japan and parts of Asia people still bow, again this is not worship but a sign or respect. A Catholic kneeling in front of a stone representation of a saint is not worshipping that saint. No Catholic on these boards believe that any saint is a god. It boggles my mind that after reading all these posts that anyone would believe that Catholics equate Saints with GOd.
 
40.png
FCEGM:
Precisely! The reason we Catholics truly have honor for things we can see and feel, etc., has to do with the Incarnation in that Catholicism understands and appreciates the reality of the Incarnation, whereas most of Protestantism merely pays it lip service without truly appreciating what it means for God to have become Man; as St. Paul says of Christ: “He is the visible image of the invisible God; and so in seeing Him we are caught up in love for the God we cannot see.”

This situation (the Incarnation) changes everything. It shows that the New Covenant in Christ is different from God’s Covenant with Israel. In the Christian Covenant, we have Emmanuel (“God-with-us”), and, therefore, not only Christ’s Incarnation reflects the glory of the Father, but also the Church – the extension of Christ’s Incarnation (i.e., the Body of Christ) – reflects God’s glory. Thus Mary and the other Saints who reflect Christ, thereby reflect the Father’s glory; and so, images of Christ and the Saints are at the service of this incarnational glory of God; and the law against “graven images” is turned against itself in Christ.

Under the Old Law the Israelites were not to make graven images because no earthly creation could reflect the glory of God. Yet, after the Incarnation, this is possible, but only in Christ and in His Saints – those who are part of His Body.

So, the key to understanding Catholic iconography is to appreciate the reality of Christ’s Incarnation. In rejecting the legitimacy of icons and other religious images, the Protestant world comes very close to rejecting the Incarnation Itself. Indeed, Christ became FLESH in order to save FLESH (us). If everything is merely spiritual, why did Jesus need to come in the flesh at all??
Click to expand...
Whew! What a beautiful exposition. We must also remember – I believe it was mentioned earlier on this endless thread – that the iconoclastic heresies were fueled by Islamic influence. When the Seventh Ecumenical Council affirmed the use of images, the Empress Theodora led the procession of images back into the churches on the First Sunday of Lent, which is to this day known as “the feast of orthodoxy.”
 
40.png
Xavier:
God is spirit. Mental images block and hamper true worship, that is why there is a prohibition on all idols.
Click to expand...
We all know GOD is spirit. :rolleyes: Mental images are a part of our human experience, and are NOT IDOLS. We can mentally think of Christ’s passion and death while praying that we be faithful to Him.They block 'true worship? :confused:
This is like asking you to take off you training wheels. It is something which Catholics, for the most part, refuse to do. :crying:
Click to expand...
Sorry to disapoiint you, but my training wheels were gone long before you were born.
Its real simple, but folks refuse to see it.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s simple, and the Catholics here understand how that is so. 👍
The blind leading the blind.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to yourself? 😃

Kotton
 
I’d heard this same thing from a Protestant friend once, that we Catholics are idol worshippers! While in his home I responded, "You must be too, with all those pictures of family and friends on your top of your T.V.!"Can you picture his facial expression upon hearing that?
 
X is reading the Bible with hatred in his heart and without guidance. He quotes from bits and pieces - leaving out the parts of Scripture where God directed people to create images. Don’t argue with him, simply point out that he is mistaken and needs our prayers. Perhaps, someday, he will be given the Grace to see the whole truth instead of trying so hard to prove Catholics are wrong.:blessyou:
 
Idolatry

I think about money, power and sex all the time and soon those idols lead me to sin, sex without responsibility etc.

I think about Jesus, Mary and Saints all the time and soon I try harder to be holy, chaste and humble.

What ever is Good… think on these things

True Worshippers will worship God in Spirit and Truth

John
 
Thank you for your participation in this discussion. It is now closed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top