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Pace
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Nobody wants to talk about these films?
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UnknownCloud
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I’m a David Lynch fan, and I’d have ot say that Fire Walk With Me was one of hte most incredible films I have ever seen. Dave’s use of image in magnificent and easily overlooked and/or misunderstood by most. I haven’t seen MD, but I’d like to now that I know of it. 
If it’s the same David Lynch I know, a sexual scene between two women could easily be an image to describe a self-indulgence (such as ‘loving’ onself). But then again, Hollywood is perhaps the Earth’s greatest propagandists, so we must always be on guard.
I’d have to see the movie for myself I suppose, but from what I’ve seen of Dave’s work thus far, he is much more interested in portraying the depths of the human person, both good and bad, than advertising.
If it’s the same David Lynch I know, a sexual scene between two women could easily be an image to describe a self-indulgence (such as ‘loving’ onself). But then again, Hollywood is perhaps the Earth’s greatest propagandists, so we must always be on guard.
I’d have to see the movie for myself I suppose, but from what I’ve seen of Dave’s work thus far, he is much more interested in portraying the depths of the human person, both good and bad, than advertising.
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Pace
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I think you’re right on the money, ukc, with everything you said.
I hope you will give us a little of your reaction after you have seen MD.
One thing about “Hollywood”: I think it may have been necessary for it to have been destroyed from the ‘inside’.
I hope you will give us a little of your reaction after you have seen MD.
One thing about “Hollywood”: I think it may have been necessary for it to have been destroyed from the ‘inside’.
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ecs_220
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They fit my definition of “graphic”. No, they weren’t “hardcore-porn” graphic, but those women were Mighty Naked (one of them completely), and I think the idea might have been conveyed more discreetly.
Do I have a problem with nudity, per se, in films? Not in it’s correct context: in the film Jesus, a demoniac is portrayed nude, because that’s what the Gospel relates. Likewise, the Eden sequence in John Huston’s *The Bible: In The Beginning * were beautifully done. Scores of actors appeared nude in Speilberg’s Schindler’s List, because that’s the way it really was in the concentration camps. The *Mulholland Drive * lesbian scenes were virtually indistinguishable from softcore porn (and yes, I’m sorry to say that, over my 50+ years, I’ve seen both “hardcore” and “softcore” varieties in the past; I wish I could truthfully say that I have not).
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Brian
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Has anyone read much Edmund Spenser? There is a fairly graphic lesbian scene in “The Fairie Queene” in which a major character is tempted by two lustily engaged and beckoning young women.
Metaphorically, their enagagement represents sterility and heterodox sexuality. Although the scene is described by the poet in vivid detail, it is meant to be instructive of improper and base sexual relations. This was in the later 16th century…
The point is, not all such scenes are simply gratuitous, and much of western art owes a significant debt to works like “The Fairie Queene.” Lynch’s depiction can easily be construed as an allusion to FQ, or possibly even an homage. The intent is to depict what’s wrong with that scene, while simultaneously illustrating its attractiveness. Sort of like Milton’s Satan, or the Satan figure in “The Passion;” evil, yet attractive at the same time…
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Pace
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Very well said. I believe that Lynch uses these situations in the world of cinema in the very same way - and for the very same reasons - that God uses them in the real world.
In fact, if I didn’t know better (i.e. if I didn’t know the correct theological answer) I might be tempted to ask if David Lynch weren’t God the Father himself. One example of this: David Lynch thinks it’s a beautiful thing to have maggots actively working within his paintings. He would rather have the maggots there than not there.
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Jason_Hurd
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Something to remember about *Mulholland Drive *is that it originated as a pilot for a television series. Midway through the filming, the TV deal fell through, and Lynch salvaged what he could of the storyline and fashioned it into a theatrical version that he hoped could stand on its own. This means that a lot of the details and loose ends, such as hiring Lee Grant for a blink-and-you’ve-missed-it cameo in heavy make-up as a homeless eccentric, are there unintentionally.
I’m not what you’d call a big fan of Lynch’s work. I’d gladly discard *Blue Velvet *and *Wild at Heart *if it meant I could keep *Eraserhead, *which I consider to be a still vastly underrated film. However, I absolutely adore *Lost Highway. *The feeling of dread and horror mixed with black comedy places it in the highest echelon of film, in my own opinion.
I’m not what you’d call a big fan of Lynch’s work. I’d gladly discard *Blue Velvet *and *Wild at Heart *if it meant I could keep *Eraserhead, *which I consider to be a still vastly underrated film. However, I absolutely adore *Lost Highway. *The feeling of dread and horror mixed with black comedy places it in the highest echelon of film, in my own opinion.
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Pace
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Jason Hurd:
Thanks for explaining the story of how MD came about. My thoughts about that are that this is the special way that God was able to make the movie completely his own. If it hadn’t happened this way, it’s possible that even the great listener David Lynch might have gotten in His way. I will bring a quote from Lynch next time I post that indicates that he himself agrees that the way MD came about (that you described) made it perfect in a way that couldn’t have been planned.
Have you been to the Rotten Tomatoes MD forum? At that site we are discovering (and have discovered, to an astounding degree) that what may have looked like “loose ends” are very much the opposite.
Exellent Jason. I’m with you on Eraserhead and Lost Highway. But I would add the other films to that list, not the least of which reason is that I believe that those are the same films but in a different form.
Thanks for explaining the story of how MD came about. My thoughts about that are that this is the special way that God was able to make the movie completely his own. If it hadn’t happened this way, it’s possible that even the great listener David Lynch might have gotten in His way. I will bring a quote from Lynch next time I post that indicates that he himself agrees that the way MD came about (that you described) made it perfect in a way that couldn’t have been planned.
Have you been to the Rotten Tomatoes MD forum? At that site we are discovering (and have discovered, to an astounding degree) that what may have looked like “loose ends” are very much the opposite.
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bon_saul
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My wife and I found Mulholland Drive a most harrowing picture of this young soul of Betty Elm twisted by an insidious perversion of the American dream, its Hollywood symbol, to degrade herself and her loving friendship for Rita who acts as a guardian spirit. Betty has been seized by a devilish need to physically possess and completely control her dear unselfish friend. She willfully forfeits her dreamlike second chance, but her original pure love of Rita still survives in the celestial joyful image that ends the film. Good enough for us!
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bon_saul
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Dear Friends, To continue thinking about the symbolic union of the two young women characters, Rita and Betty, in Mulholland Drive, could David Lynch be exploring here the Christian theme of the Old Eve, fallen in Eden, and redeemed as the New Eve, the Holy Madonna who bore our Saviour. This question of womanhood and our universal salvation through the Grace of God suggests itself to me in David Lynch’s remarkable latest lovely"Inland Empire" again using doubles but featuring the great Laura Dern, from Blue Velvet and Wild at Heart, playing the main character who is a truly suffering heroine with a special destiny while the New World is dawning. I think Lynch loves the little domestic group of Easter bunny type characters that mysteriously comment on the movie plot to each other (and us).
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bon_saul
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bon_saul
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Pace, how unique David Lynch as the artist who strives for the reality of spiritual creation and for divine inspiration in this material world of fallen nature. He sees the process of morbidity and decay overcoming the new American Eden, forfeiting the second chance divinely offered, how the founding fathers repeated the original sin of the Old World in this hopeful Garden, degenerating through selfish pride and greediness. Betty in Mulholland Drive is warned by the spectacle of her future image as Diane Selwyn, a corrupting carcass for betraying her best friend, the angelic Rita who had offered Betty a new chance to save her soul by selfless devotion to life with compassion and charity to others.
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bonniescifi
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Perhaps it’s truer that Mr. Lynch is highlighting the corruption of the American dream through the commercial exploitation of women. The spiritual death of the Betty Elms character, even when she was given a second chance, is shown by her dual identity and her violent possessiveness toward Rita, Betty/Diane’s mortal sin destroying their initially loving friendship.
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johngh
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I have only seen two Lynch films, Eraserhead and Blue Velvet. I couldn’t even finish both of them I thought they were so bad. Eraserhead is probably one of my least favorite movies of all time. It’s just so stupid I could not find words to express my dislike for it.
Needless to say I think he’s a bad director, and I am someone that really enjoys “intelligent” cinema. Unfortunately Lynch does not make intelligent films, he makes moronic films that his ravenous fans try to claim are deep and profound, when in fact they are mostly a pile of horse…well you know what i’m trying to say.
Needless to say I think he’s a bad director, and I am someone that really enjoys “intelligent” cinema. Unfortunately Lynch does not make intelligent films, he makes moronic films that his ravenous fans try to claim are deep and profound, when in fact they are mostly a pile of horse…well you know what i’m trying to say.
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