:de: Controversial Lenin statue unveiled in Germany's Gelsenkirchen

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Was it ‘Woke Mobs’ that tore down statues of historic communist leaders after the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union?

Or are you just lashing out?
 
No, because they actually knew what it felt like to be under communism.
 
Kaninchen said:
Was it ‘Woke Mobs’ that tore down statues of historic communist leaders after the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union?

Or are you just lashing out?
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I just want them to be consistent. If the statues of certain figures deserve to be vandalized or toppled for their atrocities or attitudes, surely that should apply to Lenin as well? If not, why not?
And if a mob did happen to tear this Lenin statue down, they better not have been denouncing the actions of the Woke Mob.
 
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Kaninchen said:
Who are ‘them’? Are they a ‘them’ in Germany?

Are the ‘Woke Mob’ a huge international conspiracy or just a slogan?
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People who seem to think they have the authority to tear things down in the name of “justice”. No conspiracy. Just sad people who think they’re helping oppressed people by being a violent.
 
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A world without posturing on the ultra left and ultra right would be a distinct improvement.
 
I just want them to be consistent. If the statues of certain figures deserve to be vandalized or toppled for their atrocities or attitudes, surely that should apply to Lenin as well? If not, why not?
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Lenin was good.

I am always a little confused when statues like this get put up. A lot of the time it definitely isn’t really in the spirit of the figure. In Manchester recently they put up a statue of Frederick Engels, Marx’s co-author and best friend, because he wrote a book about the condition of the working class in Manchester. Honouring the cultural contribution of figures like this almost seems to ignore the directly political aspect of their work, but maybe that’s the point.

Anyway this Lenin statue was put up by a Marxist-Leninist group, presumably on private land and as an explicitly defiant political statement. From the article it seems like they’re deliberately trying to provoke a reaction in the context of questionable statues being removed.
 
No, he wasn’t. I wonder have you ever lived under a communist regime?
 
The revolution that Lenin partook in functioned as a “dual revolution”, being both a bourgeois and proletarian revolution. While Lenin and the Bolsheviks were communists commited to the formation of an international communist movement, the situation in the Soviet Republic after the revolution required a continuation of the bourgeois revolution that had already been set in motion. This was mainly characterised by the Bolsheviks carrying out land reform and parcelling land out to the peasantry, an act that is crucial for the emergence of bourgeois society. Unfortunately the Russian revolution never progressed beyond this bourgeois revolution and the Soviet Republic developed into a capitalist state, the USSR, which featured all the staples of capitalism such as wage labour and the continuous drive to expand capital. All the following “communist” states were either countries in which the Soviet model for capitalism was imposed or similar bourgeois revolutions that required a planned economy to build up industry on the back of what was essentially an agricultural peasant economy.

So no, I haven’t lived under communism, but neither has anyone else.
 
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Glad to hear that no one lived under actual communism except that there are/were millions who suffered and many millions who were killed for it to be implemented in some variation or form before it could be fully realized.

Lenin is not a good man.
 
josie_L said:
No, he wasn’t. I wonder have you ever lived under a communist regime?
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If the question is fair for others, I would say the question is fair for you.

What communist regime, and when and how long have you lived under a communist regime?

In case you are wondering, no I haven’t lived under a communist regime…although I have lived under a growing totalitarian regime since 2017.
 
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That’s a silly question because I don’t need to live something to realize many others have suffered and still suffer under communist regimes.

Do I need to experience living in Nazi Germany to say that it is evil and has caused untold suffering to millions?

I can hardly countenance anyone claiming Hitler is good, but apparently communist dictators are.
 
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Because HE SAID LENIN IS GOOD.

If I said Hitler was good would you not be GOADED to reply the same?

Is this a Catholic forum or am I to believe that Lenin is ACTUALLY GOOD?
 
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josie_L said:
Because HE SAID LENIN IS GOOD.
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Could you explain why anyone saying Lenin is good needs to have lived under a communist regime? I didn’t live in ancient palestine, but I know Jesus was good.
 
Clearly a person who claims Lenin is good does not know what it is/was like living under communism as many who actually have lived to tell their tale have.

Anyone who claims Lenin is good is just as bad as anyone claiming Hitler is good.
 
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Glad to hear that no one lived under actual communism except that there are/were millions who suffered and many millions who were killed for it to be implemented in some variation or form before it could be fully realized.
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I am aware of the horrors of the Soviet Union and of the states that were erected in imitation of the enterprise system that it adopted. The fact is that the USSR imported a lot of its early capital from the USA - figures like Henry Ford were essential to it becoming an industrial power. To consistently condemn the USSR you would have to condemn the USA, which in its pursuit of markets to export capital to gave rise to the country, and only after the Second World War did it suddenly decide to vilify it as an evil empire in the Cold War (a conflict which had more to do with dividing the world into markets than it did to do with ideology).

The USSR, USA and Nazi Germany were and are all parts of the same bourgeois global order that Lenin fought against.
 
All of which you said does not dispute the fact that Lenin IS NOT GOOD.

He was and will always be vilified by the likes of people who abide by the golden rule.
 
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All this rowing about Lenin reminds me of arguments between tankies and trots when I was at Uni.
 
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