Deacon hailed for pulpit blast at Higgins

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
u say let’s open our minds? For one thing, why is the implication always made by those who oppose the Church that Catholics & other Christians have closed minds in the first place? Just because we don’t want unborn children exploited & murdered doesn’t mean we are closed minded.
How would u like to know that you benefited, medically, from a procedure that required the torture, mutilation & death of an innocent, totally defesneless child?
If abortion had been legalized in 1973 4 purely “humanitarian” reasons (yeah, right), no one should b able 2 profit from it except the women it was supposed to “help”. But as most of us know or suspect by now, abortion (like everything else) was not made legal out of any kind of compassion for people (women), much less their so called unwanted children… (who would, of course, “suffer” by being allowed 2b born… (!!!). (By the way, there is no such thing as an unwanted child. There is always someone who wants to adopt. I am one. If there is any woman out there who wants to give me her unwanted child, i’d be more than happy to take him/her)… In any case, If people can benefit from murder (get stem cells), there would seem (2 some) to be even less incentive to overtunr Roe v Wade… I am running out of space… but i guess one of my main points is that It seems the profit motive (& others) always comes b4 humanity in this country… In fact, that has been this country’s MO from the beginning of its history… - Kate, Member of Human Race

 

[irenaeus1]

Yes we do have a right to solid governance…the problem is that many have a problem accepting the decisons of those who govern unless they agree with their narrow and dogmatic view of the problems facing the world today.

not narrow and dogmatic views… just orthodox.

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

Nowhere in the gospel does Jesus name a pharisee…

Not to mention, even Jesus was charitable when he was chastizing the powerful.

It looks like what happened here was an example of abusing the teaching office of ordained ministry.

The same message could have been stated without screeching at one member of the congregation.

Are we suggesting that any one of us would be comfortable with a priest or deacon pointing out to the entire church the areas of our lives where we fall short in living out our faith?

We have Kyrie at the start of mass for a reason…to acknowledge our failings…we don’t need to rerun that ritual during the homily.

I agree, what good does it do to have this man leave Mass? I think the deacon should have gotten the permission of his pastor. I recall Jesus stopping a stoning, not handing people the stones. A more gentle approach is called for.

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

I agree, what good does it do to have this man leave Mass? I think the deacon should have gotten the permission of his pastor. I recall Jesus stopping a stoning, not handing people the stones. A more gentle approach is called for.

i disagree. i think this gentle approach has failed–we are loosing the war on abortion mainly because of silence and apathy. too many people in the church don’t want to rock the boat. we need to have courage and stand up to evil, even if it hurts someone’s feelings. didn’t all but one of the apostles die of martyrdom? were they worried about hurting feelings?

if we stood up more for truth reguardless of how it might hurt people’s feelings, we would be much better off. how often is homosexuality and abortion forced upon us. it all starts with being nice and sensitive. this leads to silence, tolerance and apathy/relativism.

Who cares? He walked out because he’s trying to look like a victim. he could care less what the church teaches. Why would anyone feel bad for this man? I find it depressing that so many people here are opposed to what the good deacon did.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

Reminder: Name calling is not allowed. This applies to everybody, including politicians, church hierarchy and other posters.

 

[frommi]

not narrow and dogmatic views… just orthodox.

Not necessairly…

You won’t find a bishop who would encourage abortion, but they may differ on their approach to ending it. That doesn’t make any of them more or less orthodox than the other.

I’m actually pretty tired of people claiming ‘orthodoxy’ as though it absolves them of any blame and prevents them from being challenged in their perspective

 

[fix]

Yes we do have a right to solid governance…the problem is that many have a problem accepting the decisons of those who govern unless they agree with their narrow and dogmatic view of the problems facing the world today.

I think the word accepting is not correct. I do not think anyone claims that a bishop does not have proper authority in the matter or that his decision ought not be obeyed. The issue involves the prudence of these decisions. Certainly it is not contrary to the faith to hold a private opinion regarding the issue of how bishops fail to publicly correct Catholic politicians.

What would not be orthodox is to try to hold a Catholic to a standard the Church Herself does not impose which seems to be what some are doing by claiming anyone who raises questions about the decision is heterodox.

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

i disagree. i think this gentle approach has failed–we are loosing the war on abortion mainly because of silence and apathy. too many people in the church don’t want to rock the boat. we need to have courage and stand up to evil, even if it hurts someone’s feelings. didn’t all but one of the apostles die of martyrdom? were they worried about hurting feelings?

if we stood up more for truth reguardless of how it might hurt people’s feelings, we would be much better off. how often is homosexuality and abortion forced upon us. it all starts with being nice and sensitive. this leads to silence, tolerance and apathy/relativism.

Who cares? He walked out because he’s trying to look like a victim. he could care less what the church teaches. Why would anyone feel bad for this man? I find it depressing that so many people here are opposed to what the good deacon did.

I don’t know this mans heart, and don’t know how you can either. I do care, he’s a fellow sinner, I care. I’m not opposed to what the deacon did as much as how it was done. Perhaps a private interview with the man would have been more charitable. I once had a priest try to not give me communion, why, I have no idea. It was at a daily Mass, so not too many witnesses, I can image how hurt I would have felt if it was a Sunday Mass with my entire town looking on.

 

[Leeta]

Rep.Higgin’s vote for embryonic stem cell research funding was Jan. 11. The Mass was on Jan. 14. He had a lot of gall to show up and not repent. It shows his obstinance and hardness of heart, not repentence.
By the way call his office in Washington and tell him what you think about the vote.
Congressional voting records are public and not hearsay. Politicians always have to give account for their votes. It is part of our government. There is no sin in telling a politician what you think of their vote.

 

[stbruno]

Illinois political representatives who are Catholic don’t vote as Catholics either and the worst part of it, is they don’t listen to their own bishops or Cardinal’s when they are admonished privately. In fact, they seem to flaunt their defiance as some sort of “red badge of courage!”

The only means of getting through is to make a public statement. Perhaps the deacon’s style or even place could have been chosen more appropriately, but he did make a stand.

Politicians need spin…Politicians need an audience but what any leadership needs is not a spin doctor or an audience, what they really need is a conscience and to work for the common good, not what is politically expedient or media driven.

I for one applaud anyone who stands up for moral and natural law. Seems like they are using the gifts given to them at Confirmation…in this battle against the devil. God bless them.

 

[frommi]

What would not be orthodox is to try to hold a Catholic to a standard the Church Herself does not impose which seems to be what some are doing by claiming anyone who raises questions about the decision is heterodox.

Again…I don’t have a problem questioning the actions of a bishop (after all they aren’t infallible)…

However…it seems as though people nowadays cherry pick which bishops should be questioned and which should be given a free pass.

The men who are chosen to be bishop by and large do yeoman’s work trying to balance a myriad of responsibilities…I’m not certain that a perceived failure to publically rebuke a political official should be cause to wish a bishop would transform into Ray Burke.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Again…I don’t have a problem questioning the actions of a bishop (after all they aren’t infallible)…

However…it seems as though people nowadays cherry pick which bishops should be questioned and which should be given a free pass.

The men who are chosen to be bishop by and large do yeoman’s work trying to balance a myriad of responsibilities…I’m not certain that a perceived failure to publically rebuke a political official should be cause to wish a bishop would transform into Ray Burke.

Perhaps we would be better off if the Bishops stopped trying to balance things and concentrated on what’s important.

 

[hosemonkey]

Kudos to the Deacon!

“Admonish the sinner”
One of the spiritual works of mercy. These politicians,public figures, public flouters of the Church’s teaching (Teddy Kennedy et al) Commit their offences publicly, state their sinful positions publicly and should be chastised publicly. Out here in California, we have many nominally “Catholic” politicians (many Hispanic) who support the most bizarre aberations (Pro-choice, Gay marriage, stem cell research etc, etc.) and enjoy the support of senior clergy (Abp. Roger Mahoney) and seduce their constituency away from the true teaching of the Church. Are they ever publicly chastised? Of course not. That would be “unloving, uncharitable” Horrors! Never mind that the black and Hispanic community are being decimated by abortion. Public sin, no repentence, public chastisement should follow. The tinhorn politician’s greatest fear, that of not being reelected, could be realised. I can only point to the example of Ted Kennedy, whose poor, beknighted, gullible constituency continue to return this bloated public sinner to office for term after term. And the Bishops are silent. Amazing.

 

[stbruno]

Kudos to the Deacon!

“Admonish the sinner”
One of the spiritual works of mercy. These politicians,public figures, public flouters of the Church’s teaching (Teddy Kennedy et al) Commit their offences publicly, state their sinful positions publicly and should be chastised publicly. Out here in California, we have many nominally “Catholic” politicians (many Hispanic) who support the most bizarre aberations (Pro-choice, Gay marriage, stem cell research etc, etc.) and enjoy the support of senior clergy (Abp. Roger Mahoney) and seduce their constituency away from the true teaching of the Church. Are they ever publicly chastised? Of course not. That would be “unloving, uncharitable” Horrors! Never mind that the black and Hispanic community are being decimated by abortion. Public sin, no repentence, public chastisement should follow. The tinhorn politician’s greatest fear, that of not being reelected, could be realised. I can only point to the example of Ted Kennedy, whose poor, beknighted, gullible constituency continue to return this bloated public sinner to office for term after term. And the Bishops are silent. Amazing.

AMEN

 

[contramundum7]

Kudos to the Deacon!

“Admonish the sinner”
One of the spiritual works of mercy. These politicians,public figures, public flouters of the Church’s teaching (Teddy Kennedy et al) Commit their offences publicly, state their sinful positions publicly and should be chastised publicly. Out here in California, we have many nominally “Catholic” politicians (many Hispanic) who support the most bizarre aberations (Pro-choice, Gay marriage, stem cell research etc, etc.) and enjoy the support of senior clergy (Abp. Roger Mahoney) and seduce their constituency away from the true teaching of the Church. Are they ever publicly chastised? Of course not. That would be “unloving, uncharitable” Horrors! Never mind that the black and Hispanic community are being decimated by abortion. Public sin, no repentence, public chastisement should follow. The tinhorn politician’s greatest fear, that of not being reelected, could be realised. I can only point to the example of Ted Kennedy, whose poor, beknighted, gullible constituency continue to return this bloated public sinner to office for term after term. And the Bishops are silent. Amazing.

 

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
Amen. I often feel kind of “alone” (etc) because i hold the same opinion on the subject of how best to deal with public figures who call themselves Catholic but who are not. The bishops & priests who don’t publicly reprimand them r WRONG. I get tired of people saying we are “unloving” to expect our bishops and priests to, well… 2 do what bishops & priests are supposed 2 do for crying out loud…
Would it be loving to let these public sinners continue sending the message to all that abortion is “not that big a deal”… which is what they are doing. Hasn’t that message been sent to Americans long enough? So much so that a lot of Americans are beginning to feel there are “more important” issues… when, if you think about it, there really aren’t…
How is it loving 4 the bishops to say, by their inaction, that these politicians r doing nothing wrong when they are… & could end up in Hell for it? Even if they escape Hell, they will probably have a very long Purgatory. Purgatory is just Hell that some day ends… I think a lot of Christians forget that it really is an act of mercy to tell people they r going against God.

 

[irenaeus1]

I agree, what good does it do to have this man leave Mass? I think the deacon should have gotten the permission of his pastor. I recall Jesus stopping a stoning, not handing people the stones. A more gentle approach is called for.

Another example of one who has a very selective view of Jesus’ responses. BTW, calling someone to account for the public scandal is a more gentle approach… it’s a helava lot less painful than having rocks smashed against your head.

 

[irenaeus1]

Not necessairly…

You won’t find a bishop who would encourage abortion, but they may differ on their approach to ending it. That doesn’t make any of them more or less orthodox than the other.

I’m actually pretty tired of people claiming ‘orthodoxy’ as though it absolves them of any blame and prevents them from being challenged in their perspective

You won’t? I know there have been a few priests who have taught that abortion is morally acceptable. And by the way, bishops don’t have to explicitly encourage abortion; their silence whena situation demands a public response gives the appearance of tacit approval. Recall that the church teaches ways in which one can be an accessory to sin, and one of those is silence.

I too am actually pretty tired of people claiming that certain views are ‘too narrow’ or ‘too dogmatic’ as though it absolves them of any blame and prevents them from being challenged in their perspective.

 

[irenaeus1]

I don’t know this mans heart, and don’t know how you can either. I do care, he’s a fellow sinner, I care. I’m not opposed to what the deacon did as much as how it was done. Perhaps a private interview with the man would have been more charitable. I once had a priest try to not give me communion, why, I have no idea. It was at a daily Mass, so not too many witnesses, I can image how hurt I would have felt if it was a Sunday Mass with my entire town looking on.

Knowing a man’s heart is not necessarily required when calling them to account, especially if they know the desparity between their view and the Church’s teaching. Besides, since we can never know a man’s heart and intention in an absolute sense, then how can one ever ‘admonish the sinner’, which is one of the spiritual works of mercy. What right did Paul have to excommunicate a man who was sleeping with his stepmother? What right did Paul pass judgment upon this man when Paul wasn’t even present to confront the man in person. What right did Paul have to say that a believer who sins (publicly) is to be rebuked publicly if it is first required to know the man’s heart.

 

[irenaeus1]

Again…I don’t have a problem questioning the actions of a bishop (after all they aren’t infallible)…

However…it seems as though people nowadays cherry pick which bishops should be questioned and which should be given a free pass.

The men who are chosen to be bishop by and large do yeoman’s work trying to balance a myriad of responsibilities…I’m not certain that a perceived failure to publically rebuke a political official should be cause to wish a bishop would transform into Ray Burke.

So you support Bishop Burke or are you cherry picking? Just curious.

And giving a bishop a free pass?.. if by free pass you mean supporting a bishop who unambiguously and without compromise teaches and acts in accordance with what the Church teaches?.. then you bet.