Deacon Kneeling for the Consecration?

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I recently attended the Ordination Mass of a friend. In addition to the great number of concelebrants (he is an ordered priest) there was a deacon (other than the ordinand) functioning as such in the liturgy. What he did that was outside my experience was to kneel in the sanctuary during the consecration (from the epiclesis to the mysterium fidei).

Is this proper/permissible/preferrable? I don’t know whether he did it out of personal piety or to distinguish himself and avoid being confused with the concelebrants (who all wore matching chasubles, with his dalmatic similarly decorated)?

Just something I’d never seen before,

tee
 
We belong to two parishes. The one that is more faithful has deacons that kneel during the consecration. It was my understanding the EVERYONE except the priest(s) is supposed to kneel.

Micki
 
It is prescribed for the deacon to kneel during the consecration. I guess it makes sense, because deacons aren’t offering the sacrifice, so taking a posture of reverence during the consecration makes sense.
The following is from the GIRM:

“From the epiclesis until the priest shows the chalice, the deacon normally remains kneeling. If several deacons are present, one of them may place incense in the thurible for the consecration and incense the host and the chalice as they are shown to the people.”

For the entire GIRM, feel free to visit: usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml
 
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mikworld:
It is prescribed for the deacon to kneel during the consecration. I guess it makes sense, because deacons aren’t offering the sacrifice, so taking a posture of reverence during the consecration makes sense.
The following is from the GIRM:

“From the epiclesis until the priest shows the chalice, the deacon normally remains kneeling. If several deacons are present, one of them may place incense in the thurible for the consecration and incense the host and the chalice as they are shown to the people.”

For the entire GIRM, feel free to visit: usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml
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:yup:
 
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tee_eff_em:
I recently attended the Ordination Mass of a friend. In addition to the great number of concelebrants (he is an ordered priest) there was a deacon (other than the ordinand) functioning as such in the liturgy. What he did that was outside my experience was to kneel in the sanctuary during the consecration (from the epiclesis to the mysterium fidei).

Is this proper/permissible/preferrable? I don’t know whether he did it out of personal piety or to distinguish himself and avoid being confused with the concelebrants (who all wore matching chasubles, with his dalmatic similarly decorated)?

Just something I’d never seen before,

tee
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Yes that is correct. Only the celebrant and any concelebrants should be standing during the Consecration, ALL others should be kneeling (if they can kneel without great difficulity)
 
Everyone who is able to kneel is to kneel except celebrating or concelebrating bishops or priests. It’s common to see a priest or monsignor who is acting as the MC kneel during the consecration.

Fr. Andrew Fisher routinely does this on televised Masses from the National Shrine.

This was bitterly fought over when people at my parish demanded that altar servers stand during the consecration.
 
One of our deacon kneels when he is serving at the altar, but the other deacon cannot due to his physical infirmnity. There is no kneeler in the sanctuary and he would be unable to stand up without assistance, so he remains standing and bows instead.
 
Thanks, all. I am of a diocese woefully deprived in the permanent deacon department, and I couldn’t remember ever seeing a transitional deacon (those few times I’ve been able to observe them) do so (it seems to me I used to see them do acolyte-type things – turning pages of the sacramentary, or holding father’s vestments to keep them dipping into the chalice and whatnot, but I could be mistaken (been a while since I’ve observed a transitional deacon with any regularity either))

tee
 
The Deacon should kneel at the same parts in the Novus Ordo Mass as he would during a TLM High Mass.
 
In our diocese, we have many older deacons that have a problem getting up after kneeling or kneeling at all due to surgery Etc. The bishop, in order to have a uniform policy at Mass, decided to have all deacons stand for the Consecration. This eliminated any confusion at Mass as to why some were kneeling and some were not. I was one of the lucky ones that could still kneel. However as my arthritis progresses, only God knows how long it will be before I won’t be able to kneel.

God bless,
Deacon tony
 
Deacon Tony560:
In our diocese, we have many older deacons that have a problem getting up after kneeling or kneeling at all due to surgery Etc. The bishop, in order to have a uniform policy at Mass, decided to have all deacons stand for the Consecration. This eliminated any confusion at Mass as to why some were kneeling and some were not. I was one of the lucky ones that could still kneel. However as my arthritis progresses, only God knows how long it will be before I won’t be able to kneel.

God bless,
Deacon tony
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What total backwash. Nothing like ignoring what the Church directs for what the local ordinary prefers…
 
Pariah,

If you look at the directives in the GIRM it says the “deacon normally kneels” – not that he must kneel. My bishop, too, has instructed his deacons to stand since many of us cannot get back up once we get down, and some can’t even kneel (I can, but only for short periods due to surgery on my knee, and getting up can be quite, um, amusing to watch).

This is a case where the directives from Rome were written considering both the younger transitional deacons and us older permanent deacons.

Deacon Ed
 
I must echo the sentiments here. I have seen deacons kneel when they could. This had been my fairly common experience until the I moved to my current diocese this past year. Everyone on the altar stands, and when I ask questions, no one quite knows where the directive came from. :hmmm: Thanks and God Bless.
 
Deacon Ed,

I find it appalling that your Bishop would consider that ignorance on behalf of his flock is a good thing.

If there is confusion on the part of the faithful, then that is to be met with teaching. That is one of the primary tasks of Holy Orders to teach; and your Bishop would choose instead to relinquish that obligation.

So what if a member of the faithful noticing that Deacon Jones stood for the consecration and Deacon Smith knelt. They should be comfortable enought with their clergy that they could take this question to them, and the clergy provide an answer. In this was, the faithful are better catechized, and the clergy perform their proper role.

Is that not a good thing???
 
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Brendan:
Deacon Ed,

I find it appalling that your Bishop would consider that ignorance on behalf of his flock is a good thing.

If there is confusion on the part of the faithful, then that is to be met with teaching. That is one of the primary tasks of Holy Orders to teach; and your Bishop would choose instead to relinquish that obligation.

So what if a member of the faithful noticing that Deacon Jones stood for the consecration and Deacon Smith knelt. They should be comfortable enought with their clergy that they could take this question to them, and the clergy provide an answer. In this was, the faithful are better catechized, and the clergy perform their proper role.

Is that not a good thing???
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Brendan,

I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say the bishop thinks ignorance is a good thing. There is no confusion on the part of the faithful since all deacons stand. It is also clear both from vestments and posture that we are not priests and, therefore, are not confecting the Eucharist.

Since the directive doesn’t mandate kneeling there is also no question about “clergy performing their proper role”.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
Brendan,

I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say the bishop thinks ignorance is a good thing. There is no confusion on the part of the faithful since all deacons stand. It is also clear both from vestments and posture that we are not priests and, therefore, are not confecting the Eucharist.

Since the directive doesn’t mandate kneeling there is also no question about “clergy performing their proper role”.

Deacon Ed
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Deacon Ed, you stated that all the deacons stand during the consecration “to avoid confusion”

What I meant by “the clergy performing their proper role” is that the clergy are the foremost teaching authority in the Church.

If there is confusion on the part of the faithful, would it not be better to address the confusion directly and educate the faithful, rather than avoid?

Your Bishop thought there might be confusion on the part of the faithful re: some deacons kneeling and others standing during the consecration, correct. So instead of addressing this lack of education on the part of the faithful (ignorance), he let this ignorance remain.

In other words, he didn’t teach.
 
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Brendan:
Deacon Ed, you stated that all the deacons stand during the consecration “to avoid confusion”
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I don’t beleive I said any such thing. I said that not all of us can get back up if we kneel and that some can’t kneel. Becuase of this, the bishop has choosen to have us all stand. I never said anything about “confusion.”
What I meant by “the clergy performing their proper role” is that the clergy are the foremost teaching authority in the Church.
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Thanks, that clarifies that statement – but I’m still at a loss to understand how the role as teacher affects whether or not the deacons kneel.
If there is confusion on the part of the faithful, would it not be better to address the confusion directly and educate the faithful, rather than avoid?
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But the point is there doesn’t seem to be any confusion. When it was raised in this thread two deacons from different dioceses offered answers in keeping with our role as the “foremost teachers”–and got soundly criticized for it. You accused my bishop of wanting the people to be ignorant. You say this without, apparently, any understanding of what catechesis may or may not have taken place in the diocese. You simply made an accusation.
Your Bishop thought there might be confusion on the part of the faithful re: some deacons kneeling and others standing during the consecration, correct. So instead of addressing this lack of education on the part of the faithful (ignorance), he let this ignorance remain.
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No, not correct. The bishop took into consideration the 70+ deacons we have in the diocese and their physical capabilities and made a ruling based upon that. He knows each of us, and knows what we can and can’t do.
In other words, he didn’t teach.
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No, you assumed he didn’t teach based upon God knows what (name removed by moderator)ut. You further mischaracterized what I had written and then attacked this invention. That’s called a strawman argument and it’s a logical fallacy – not to mention being uncharitable.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Tony560:
This eliminated any confusion at Mass as to why some were kneeling and some were not.

God bless,
Deacon tony
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From #10

Was any catechisis was offered to the faithful to eliminate the confusion you mention re: the position of the deacon during the Consecration?
 
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Brendan:
From #10

Was any catechisis was offered to the faithful to eliminate the confusion you mention re: the position of the deacon during the Consecration?
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Brendan,

You will notice that Deacon Tony posted that, not me.

Deacon Ed
 
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