Deacon Vestments In N.O.

[plato3]

Deacon Ed B- I’m surprised to hear this about the policy on dalmatics. It must be something that goes way back in your diocese. Our diocese did not ordain it’s first permanent deacons until 2003. Our former bishop did not think it was the right time for deacons.Our present bishop had started a program in his last diocese and after much preparation, he started one here. At least they were open to permanent deacons in your diocese sooner than our diocese. Each diocese is like a separate country.

 

[ThuribleGuy45]

As the Canonist quoted, the Church prefers that permanent deacons merge into the daily life of the lay world and the use of the collar is reserved for ministry

The only men who I have seen who wear a Roman collar as a daily form of dress are priests and religioius brothers. That’s because the collar replaces the cassock or cassock, depending on what they would traditionally wear.

JR

The “merging into the daily life of the lay world” rationale is what our diocese uses as the reason for forbidding our permanent deacons from wearing the collar, even in tightly-defined circumstances. The irony is that, in my experience, people WANT their deacons to be in the role of an official church minister - collar and all - when they need the church in their life - hospital calls, wakes especially. I know of one deacon who got out of bed at 2 AM for a hospital call, only to be rebuffed by the family who wanted a “real” clergyman…and obviously the bedside of a dying loved one wasn’t the place for catechesis on the diaconate. No one I know proposes that deacons wear the collar when taking their wives to dinner. But wakes, hospital calls, internments…that would seem to be very appropriate, especially when there are so many unchurched at wakes who react to suit-and-tie deacons as “lay volunteers” and who wonder why the Church can’t be bothered to send a clergyman whe the family needs one.

 

[THurifer2]

I just wish my pastor would allow us to wear dalmatics. The parish is 6 years old and we wore then once. That was when the Archbishop was here to dedicate and consecrate our new worship center. They have not been worn since. We have heard all kind of “excuses” at many different parishes. It distracts and confuses the people. They don’t know who the priest is. And on and on. Give me a break. Simply say you don’t want the deacon to wear them. but put the lame excuses to rest.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Deacon Ed, is not your ordinary the person who grants permission for Dalmatics?

Round these parts the priest isn’t the deacons boss. Our deacons wear dalmatics…even though the priest strongly dislikes it.

 

[THurifer2]

The “merging into the daily life of the lay world” rationale is what our diocese uses as the reason for forbidding our permanent deacons from wearing the collar, even in tightly-defined circumstances. The irony is that, in my experience, people WANT their deacons to be in the role of an official church minister - collar and all - when they need the church in their life - hospital calls, wakes especially. I know of one deacon who got out of bed at 2 AM for a hospital call, only to be rebuffed by the family who wanted a “real” clergyman…and obviously the bedside of a dying loved one wasn’t the place for catechesis on the diaconate. No one I know proposes that deacons wear the collar when taking their wives to dinner. But wakes, hospital calls, internments…that would seem to be very appropriate, especially when there are so many unchurched at wakes who react to suit-and-tie deacons as “lay volunteers” and who wonder why the Church can’t be bothered to send a clergyman whe the family needs one.

All it takes is…a simple correction from a person “Ma’am I’m not a priest…I am a deacon”.

It seems like the new anti-clericalism is directed towards permanent deacons.

DEACONS are CLERICS. NOT laypersons. They are not half priests nor are they HALF laypersons. They are 100% Cleric as much Cleric as a priest.

Clerics should be able to dress like Clerics.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

When you work with a pastor, you want to do so as non confrontational as possible. Remember - he is the pastor. I am not. simply said. I do not want that job.
Prayers & blessings
deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

All it takes is…a simple correction from a person “Ma’am I’m not a priest…I am a deacon”.

It seems like the new anti-clericalism is directed towards permanent deacons.

DEACONS are CLERICS. NOT laypersons. They are not half priests nor are they HALF laypersons. They are 100% Cleric as much Cleric as a priest.

Clerics should be able to dress like Clerics.

I agree with all you said except the aiticlericalism. Lets face it. The permanent diaconate is new. Some priests still do not know how to work with us. It is a learning process for both priests and deacons. Believe me, if the Holy Spirit is behind it, which I believe he is, it will happen. Please don’t do any unnecessary fighting for us. Things will work out. Look at my signature.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I know of one deacon who got out of bed at 2 AM for a hospital call, only to be rebuffed by the family who wanted a “real” clergyman…and obviously the bedside of a dying loved one wasn’t the place for catechesis on the diaconate.

I’m curious why a deacon would be called to the hospital at all. At 2am it must be an emergency, right? Wouldn’t you want a priest who could anoint the sick person? I would!

 

[ThuribleGuy45]

I’m curious why a deacon would be called to the hospital at all. At 2am it must be an emergency, right? Wouldn’t you want a priest who could anoint the sick person? I would!

As I understand it, the individual had already been anointed and was unconscious, and the family called the rectory to have someone come and pray with them. The pastor decided that under the circumstances this was appropriate for the deacon to do.

 

[Spiller]

I asked my Parish Priest who is a canonist (and against Perm deacons wearing collars). He said it is likely that a bishop CAN forbid a deacon from wearing a collar but it is unlikely that one would. He mentioned that the directive from L.A. was not an order but a recommendation. My diocese the BIshop allows the cleric to wear clerical garb which is the norm in the Universal Church.

A deacon friend of mine who belongs to the confraternity of Catholic Clergy (the one headed by John Trigilio) said that there is no likely written rule anywhere that forbids deacons wearing collars…including Los Angeles.

I plan on wearing my Clerical Collar in prison ministry only…as requested by the Chaplain of the prison who is a protestant. (he recognizes that clerics should wear clerical garb in “his House”

I dunno man… You say you’re joining a diaconate formation yet you seem so focused on the wrong things – the externals and how to maneuver around what the Church directs. You’re already planning your wardrobe for goodness sakes…

You are given expert Catholic advice (from Deacon John Cameron) yet you come back and proclaim that you’re going to follow the request of a Protestant chaplain. It’s very clear you don’t want guidance on this matter. You seem to be in love with the idea of wearing a Roman Collar and that’s that.

What’s deeply offensive is your comment 'as requested by the Chaplain of the prison who is a protestant. (he recognizes that clerics should wear clerical garb in “his House”’ on a number of levels. First, most Protestant clergy do not wear roman collars – ever. Often not even regular ties in a prison setting where you can be noosed. If they do, they’ll be clip-ons yet they have no trouble looking like clergy. Second, it’s not his house – it’s the taxpayer’s and he’s an employee.

You want to look like clergy? Wear a plain black or navy blue business suit (and I mean NAVY blue) with a white dress shirt and a solid black or navy blue (and I mean NAVY blue) four-in-hand tie. Dressed like that you would CLEARLY be clergy – not even accountants or lawyers dress that plain.

Yet it doesn’t really matter, does it? You’re in love with wearing a Roman collar and that’s that…

 

[plato3]

I’m curious why a deacon would be called to the hospital at all. At 2am it must be an emergency, right? Wouldn’t you want a priest who could anoint the sick person? I would!

The last rite of the church is now Viaticum-Holy Communion that is food for the journey. Once a person is annointed and can still receive communion. The priest may ask the deacon at a later date/time to administer this rite of Viaticum.

 

[THurifer2]

I dunno man… You say you’re joining a diaconate formation yet you seem so focused on the wrong things – the externals and how to maneuver around what the Church directs. You’re already planning your wardrobe for goodness sakes…

You are given expert Catholic advice (from Deacon John Cameron) yet you come back and proclaim that you’re going to follow the request of a Protestant chaplain. It’s very clear you don’t want guidance on this matter. You seem to be in love with the idea of wearing a Roman Collar and that’s that.

What’s deeply offensive is your comment 'as requested by the Chaplain of the prison who is a protestant. (he recognizes that clerics should wear clerical garb in “his House”’ on a number of levels. First, most Protestant clergy do not wear roman collars – ever. Often not even regular ties in a prison setting where you can be noosed. If they do, they’ll be clip-ons yet they have no trouble looking like clergy. Second, it’s not his house – it’s the taxpayer’s and he’s an employee.

You want to look like clergy? Wear a plain black or navy blue business suit (and I mean NAVY blue) with a white dress shirt and a solid black or navy blue (and I mean NAVY blue) four-in-hand tie. Dressed like that you would CLEARLY be clergy – not even accountants or lawyers dress that plain.

Yet it doesn’t really matter, does it? You’re in love with wearing a Roman collar and that’s that…

No my friend you are wrong. If I am ordained…(God Willing) I likely will NEVER wear a Roman Collar… unless I continue with prison minsitry… and I mean NEVER…

You are also EXTREMELY wrong about protestants not wearing Roman collars. In my neck of the woods Catholics are an EXTREME minority. Both Lutheran (missouri and ELCA) wear roman collars “on business” the anglican “priestess” wears a Roman collar (with a cassock to boot). The woman Methodist pastor wears a Roman collar at Funeral “visitations”. The Congregationalist pastor wears a light blue oxford with a collar. \

Perhaps you should enlighten yourself and aquaint with some of these people… I have come to know all of them and have been enriched by their friendship.

As far as what you think of me is pointless…since you are tossing arrows across the internet…at me and you cannot possible know who I am…but there you are publicly passing judgement on me being enamored with being a cleric. I didn’t seek being a deacon…my diocese sought me out. I am anwering the call out of obedience to my bishop… who by the way encourages deacons to wear clerics during certain ministries. With that in mind what is your response to that? If I am ever ordained should I listen to YOUR opinion or my Bishop?.

Like I said earlier…it seems as though some people don’t like the idea of deacons being clerics.

Furthermore…have you ever been inside a maximum security Prison? I HAVE… For heavens sake the GUARDS ALL WEAR TIES.

Whatever the view of Deacons is. When the Chaplain wants clerics to wear collars than i will either have to toe the line or get out of the ministry. Either way Deacons will still be wearing collars on the inside.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

The last rite of the church is now Viaticum-Holy Communion that is food for the journey. Once a person is annointed and can still receive communion. The priest may ask the deacon at a later date/time to administer this rite of Viaticum.

Excuse me, the last rights are not viatecum. It is the Sacrament of the sick/healing/ last rights. This is given to the dying because the sacrament, among other things gives forgiveness of sin. Viatecum is Holy Communion, given to the dying and is a separate sacrament itself. Viatecum comes from the Latin, meaning to take with you. What better way into eternity than our Lord within you.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Spiller]

No my friend you are wrong. If I am ordained…(God Willing) I likely will NEVER wear a Roman Collar… unless I continue with prison minsitry… and I mean NEVER…

Deacons around here (this part of California) both in prison and jail ministry don’t wear the Roman collar. I don’t know any that wear ties.

You are also EXTREMELY wrong about protestants not wearing Roman collars. In my neck of the woods Catholics are an EXTREME minority. Both Lutheran (missouri and ELCA) wear roman collars “on business” the anglican “priestess” wears a Roman collar (with a cassock to boot). The woman Methodist pastor wears a Roman collar at Funeral “visitations”. The Congregationalist pastor wears a light blue oxford with a collar.

Yeap, must be different here. Why would you want to look like them?

Perhaps you should enlighten yourself and aquaint with some of these people… I have come to know all of them and have been enriched by their friendship.

You just made a ridiculous comment – you have absolutely no idea about my background.

As far as what you think of me is pointless…since you are tossing arrows across the internet…at me and you cannot possible know who I am…but there you are publicly passing judgement on me being enamored with being a cleric. I didn’t seek being a deacon…my diocese sought me out. I am anwering the call out of obedience to my bishop… who by the way encourages deacons to wear clerics during certain ministries. With that in mind what is your response to that? If I am ever ordained should I listen to YOUR opinion or my Bishop?.

All I see you doing is ignoring expert advice…

Tell us more how your diocese sought you out?

Like I said earlier…it seems as though some people don’t like the idea of deacons being clerics.

You said it, not me. I just don’t like our local deacon who tries to pass himself off as a priest.

Furthermore…have you ever been inside a maximum security Prison? I HAVE… For heavens sake the GUARDS ALL WEAR TIES.

MANY TIMES. The first time as a junior in my high school psychology class, and many times since. A maximum security prison and not a county jail either. Most of those ties you speak of are clip-ons so guards won’t get noosed. It would be a safety issue for a guard to wear a regular tie.

Whatever the view of Deacons is. When the Chaplain wants clerics to wear collars than i will either have to toe the line or get out of the ministry. Either way Deacons will still be wearing collars on the inside.

Bull. He cannot dictate that you wear a roman collar. There may be a dress code but it’s not going to be a Roman collar. Have you tried prison ministry as a layperson? I have. Maybe you should try it for a couple of years if you haven’t already…

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Deacons, do what your bishop says, no more, no less
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[THurifer2]

Deacons around here (this part of California) both in prison and jail ministry don’t wear the Roman collar. I don’t know any that wear ties.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Thanks for the comments about bringing Viatecum and praying with the dying person and his family. For someone who has already been anointed those would be both good for the person who is dying and a comfort for the family.

 

[THurifer2]

Thanks for the comments about bringing Viatecum and praying with the dying person and his family. For someone who has already been anointed those would be both good for the person who is dying and a comfort for the family.

God Bless you!

 

[Spiller]

…Umm I am talking about a prison here…you know that takes weeks of training and multiple background checks to gain access in?.I don’t know who the fools are in CA that allow HS kids into places like I go to .(oh wait…thats right…we are talking about the peoples republic of CA)…but its weeks of training before going inside…

Enough of your games. I won’t respond to the rest of your comments but the above garbage is way over the line. No “fools” allowed us to enter the California Men’s Colony in San Luis Obispo, CA (or Atascadero State Mental Hospital) when I was in high school. Prison and hospital administrators did.

We visited one (the prison) when I was a junior taking psychology. We visited the next one the following semester when I took sociology. I had to go back my senior year to the prison as part of my senior studies class.

Maybe you never had the benefit of such an education but that’s still no excuse. Your post is deeply offensive. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You owe the administration of both of those institutions an apology for referring to them as “fools.”

 

[THurifer2]

Enough of your games. I won’t respond to the rest of your comments but the above garbage is way over the line. No “fools” allowed us to enter the **California Men’s Colony in San Luis Obispo, CA (**or Atascadero State Mental Hospital) when I was in high school. Prison and hospital administrators did.

We visited one (the prison) when I was a junior taking psychology. We visited the next one the following semester when I took sociology. I had to go back my senior year to the prison as part of my senior studies class.

Maybe you never had the benefit of such an education but that’s still no excuse. Your post is deeply offensive. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You owe the administration of both of those institutions an apology for referring to them as “fools.”

Sorry I thought we were talking about a place similar to where I work…CMC is minimum to medium security. I minister in a Maximum security prison…a place that forbids anyone under 21 years old “inside” 7 armed gates and finger print check EVERY visit along with “the stamp of the day” followed up with waiting at the final gate so no human being is within 100 feet of the door on the other side… All of the offenders (thier affectionate name) are lifers and a few of the men I minister to are serial rapists.

Oh by the way California Mens colony is considered a “country club prison”…Even WIKI mentions this

Honestly I just want you to not take your dislike (you did say above you didn’t like you deacon) for deacons out on me…obviously you have issues with your permanent deacon…You said he "pretends’ to be a priest…too bad…he shouldn’t be trying to say mass and hear confessions… heaven forbid he doesn’t run around saying he is a priest does he? Outside of the things mentioned what elso could he be saying???that he is “pastor”?

God is Good

Blessings, Thurifer.

 

[JReducation]

The “merging into the daily life of the lay world” rationale is what our diocese uses as the reason for forbidding our permanent deacons from wearing the collar, even in tightly-defined circumstances. The irony is that, in my experience, people WANT their deacons to be in the role of an official church minister - collar and all - when they need the church in their life - hospital calls, wakes especially. I know of one deacon who got out of bed at 2 AM for a hospital call, only to be rebuffed by the family who wanted a “real” clergyman…and obviously the bedside of a dying loved one wasn’t the place for catechesis on the diaconate. No one I know proposes that deacons wear the collar when taking their wives to dinner. But wakes, hospital calls, internments…that would seem to be very appropriate, especially when there are so many unchurched at wakes who react to suit-and-tie deacons as “lay volunteers” and who wonder why the Church can’t be bothered to send a clergyman whe the family needs one.

I was not referring to collars being worn when a deacon is functioning as a cleric. In our diocese the deacons do wear collars when they are functioning as such.

I was referring to those time when they are going to the doctor or the office, etc. In those cases, the only ones who wear collars are brothers, priests and the bishops. We have three bishops.

Our religious wear the collar in place of the habit, whether they are brothers or priests. Our bishops wear their collars with few exceptions when they will wear a shirt and tie. They always wear the cassock or the habit of their religious community when they are involved in public functions. One of our bishops is a Dominican, so he does not wear a cassock. He wears a collar, habit or shirt and tie. The shirt and tie is more for situations like going to a play or something that is very secular.

I know that the deacons in our diocese take their orders from the pastor, not the bishop. But in the end, everyone takes their orders from the bishop when working in parishes, because those belong to the diocese.

JR