Deacon's homily against the EF (3/11/12)

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Melchior said:
I never said that at all, actually. I said :

“because some people who visit this subforum attend the Ordinary Form and partake in traditionalist practices. Lectio Divina, fasting, receiving the Eucharist on the tongue, frequent Confession, daily Mass, praying LOTH and/or the Rosary, are all what most consider traditionalist practices, yet all can be done while attending the Ordinary Form”.

I then said:

"Several people here have described them as traditional practices, which is why my language reflected that. In fact, there was a nice thread about the Dominican Rosary and how it is “the traditional Rosary”, and that fifteen decades is “the traditional way”."

I’m not quite sure why you’re saying that I said certain things when I never said them.
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My comment was that most who attend the EF do engage in “traditional” Catholic devotions, while most in the OF do not. Your comment was that since most Catholics attend the OF, it would make sense that the majority who do not practice Catholic devotions are those who attend the OF (gets a little confusing, doesn’t it?)

Anyway, that is why I posted what I did.

I think I’ve done as much damage here as I should. :o

Have a blessed Triduum and Easter.
 
EcceAgnusDei said:
The deacon is not alone in his thoughts. His priest agrees with him, as shown in his homily the week before. Perusing the parish website is a big eye opener, especially the bulletins and homilies. There are pot-shots at the EF throughout.
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Gracious!
I will pray for the parishioners,
that someone will be brave enough to inquire further
about this and challenge the intent behind this homily,
and some of the ideas therein.:highprayer:
Peace and Joy to you,
Kathryn Ann
 
Brooklyn said:
My comment was that most who attend the EF do engage in “traditional” Catholic devotions, while most in the OF do not. Your comment was that since most Catholics attend the OF, it would make sense that the majority who do not practice Catholic devotions are those who attend the OF (gets a little confusing, doesn’t it?)

Anyway, that is why I posted what I did.

I think I’ve done as much damage here as I should. :o

Have a blessed Triduum and Easter.
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A question of language and terms, really. People on this board have claimed several practices are “traditional”. They then ask “why do people who do not attend the EF come here and post”. I respond with “well, it’s because those who attend the OF also partake in those practices that you call ‘traditional’”.

To someone like you, Brooklyn, this doesn’t really apply. You believe that those practices are not “traditional”, but rather merely Catholic. If everyone here thought the way that you did, then I wouldn’t have used the language I did. And frankly, I wish more people thought the way you do. Catholics doing Catholics things.

A blessed Easter to you!
 
I think its totally fine to post here if you dot go to the EF, it’s not my forum anyway, I’m a guest here too. My point is that this is the wrong thread to attack trads. This thread is about a deacon who made a very anti-Catholic homily. He didnt talk about the EF he talked abou the only form then and the whole Church we love as it was in the recent past.

Are some of you now going to go into the Eastern Catholic forum, find a tread about an ignorant Roman riter who unfairly criticized the East, and then reply that this is how it feels when they put down Thomas Aquinas or (insert other Latin emphasis here)?
 
sw85 said:
I don’t think we need to nail ourselves down to one problem with it!*

I agree - but I think a priest or deacon is free to voice an opinion from the pulpit - even a foolish one. However, because preaching is a ministry reserved to deacons and above, when they do preach about the gospel, it must be accurate - for the same reason that when they recite the gospel, it must be accurate. It is fundamental to their clerical status.*
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newyorkcatholic said:
This thread is about a deacon who made a very anti-Catholic homily. He didnt talk about the EF he talked abou the only form then and the whole Church we love as it was in the recent past.
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This is a really good point that I should have made in the OP (and maybe even used a different title). The deacon (and priest) were attacking not the EF, as there wasn’t an OF/EF split prior to Vatican II. They were attacking the Latin Rite! Thanks for pointing that out.
  • PAX
 
sw85 said:
I demand that you clarify what, in my post, you regard as blasphemous or else withdraw this veiled accusation immediately.
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I think we all need to remember that we are not conversing with people in the normal sense. We are reading words. The inflections used in speech are missing, as is body language.

In other words, people misunderstand what other people post. Perhaps that is what happened here. I saw nothing wrong with your post but I can understand how someone might have thought there was some mocking of the Holy Spirit - and that would be a horrible thing to do.

Please, tomorrow is Good Friday. A misread post and anger over that misreading is understandable but is certainly so unimportant when thinking about the Passion of Jesus. Please, no anger. Not today, not tomorrow. And certainly not on Saturday or Easter!

It makes me wonder if Jesus reflected on this sort of thing during His Agony in the Garden.
 
I have something to say and I apologize in advance because I don’t understand what Traditional Catholicism even is or what all the terms used here mean.

Where I live we have one Mass on Saturday evening and one on Sunday. The Mass is in English, the priest faces the congregation, Communion can be taken by hand or on the tongue. I guess this is probably the most common type of Mass in the U.S. I remember Masses in Latin, wearing a chapel veil, kneeling at the Communion rail - all of that was long ago for me.

I feel so blessed that we have a Mass on Sunday. One! And our only priest is also the only priest at the closest parish to mine - it’s over 20 miles away. Two parishes and one priest - that is it. We NEVER have Masses in Latin. We have daily Mass two days a week. I tried to complete the works for a plenary indulgence and couldn’t because the priest went on vacation and there was no Sacrament of Reconciliation. So I had to start over.

I know this is off-topic; I apologize for that. I just wonder why it seems that so many people are unhappy with the Mass. Maybe it’s partially because they have a choice which I do not have. If I attend Mass I attend the Mass the way it is performed at the church in my parish. That is all I have. But it’s enough!

The main reason I am posting this is because I am asking for your prayers. I have a degenerative disease and have not been able to attend Mass for some time. I want so badly to go on Easter. Please pray that I will be able to do so, if you have a minute or so. I can’t drive to even the next parish because of the medication I take. I feel embarrassed to ask for this but my desire to receive the Eucharist is so strong and I want to be in community with my fellow Catholics.

Thanks so much! :o
 
anp1215 said:
1000000 👍 for this

Anyway, what a ridiculous homily. Critiquing the Mass (whatever form) is not appropriate homily material. If I saw this happen, I would email the Deacon asking him what made him think this was good material for a homily, then I would email the Bishop.
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If it has been even a partial cause for such hurt feelings and anger, then an email or letter to the Bishop sounds appropriate. He should be made aware of what is going on.
 
LittleSoldier said:
I have something to say and I apologize in advance because I don’t understand what Traditional Catholicism even is or what all the terms used here mean.

Where I live we have one Mass on Saturday evening and one on Sunday. The Mass is in English, the priest faces the congregation, Communion can be taken by hand or on the tongue. I guess this is probably the most common type of Mass in the U.S. I remember Masses in Latin, wearing a chapel veil, kneeling at the Communion rail - all of that was long ago for me.

I feel so blessed that we have a Mass on Sunday. One! And our only priest is also the only priest at the closest parish to mine - it’s over 20 miles away. Two parishes and one priest - that is it. We NEVER have Masses in Latin. We have daily Mass two days a week. I tried to complete the works for a plenary indulgence and couldn’t because the priest went on vacation and there was no Sacrament of Reconciliation. So I had to start over.

I know this is off-topic; I apologize for that. I just wonder why it seems that so many people are unhappy with the Mass. Maybe it’s partially because they have a choice which I do not have. If I attend Mass I attend the Mass the way it is performed at the church in my parish. That is all I have. But it’s enough!

The main reason I am posting this is because I am asking for your prayers. I have a degenerative disease and have not been able to attend Mass for some time. I want so badly to go on Easter. Please pray that I will be able to do so, if you have a minute or so. I can’t drive to even the next parish because of the medication I take. I feel embarrassed to ask for this but my desire to receive the Eucharist is so strong and I want to be in community with my fellow Catholics.

Thanks so much! :o
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Praying for you, Little Soldier.

I understand what you mean about choices. I only have OF masses near me. I would love and I pray for a EF but haven’t seen that answer yet.

I have inlaws that live in a very rural area, in a highly Baptist, Church of Christ, Seventh Day Adventist area. There is one little Catholic church nearby, with only one mass on Sundays. If you miss it, well you just try your best not to because the next parish is a very long ways away. So,it is always a prayer for the Catholics to make it to mass but then I, even with my choices, pray every weekend that nothing happens that would prevent us from making it to mass. Illnesses do happen. As I said I will pray for you. I certainly understand.
 
Diana_Catherine said:
Praying for you, Little Soldier.

I understand what you mean about choices. I only have OF masses near me. I would love and I pray for a EF but haven’t seen that answer yet.

I have inlaws that live in a very rural area, in a highly Baptist, Church of Christ, Seventh Day Adventist area. There is one little Catholic church nearby, with only one mass on Sundays. If you miss it, well you just try your best not to because the next parish is a very long ways away. So,it is always a prayer for the Catholics to make it to mass but then I, even with my choices, pray every weekend that nothing happens that would prevent us from making it to mass. Illnesses do happen. As I said I will pray for you. I certainly understand.
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Thank you! Where I live (on the Oregon coast) communities were built near rivers because of the logging industry. It seems that every river has a town near it where logging was practiced. Some of these towns have gone bust. My town has boomed. But because of the geography, along with government ownership of land (of which I totally approve), eventually my town will reach a maximum population of about 20,000 (which seems huge to me). Either one goes north, south, or east - if one goes west one will get wet very quickly, although I think that it’s the best way to go if one wants to see the beauty that God has provided for us on earth. I’m absolutely awestruck by the Pacific Ocean. The closest town/city which might have a Latin Mass is a minimum of 50 miles away. The closest city which probably has enough parishes to actually offer a Latin Mass is over 60 miles away and the road to that city is a two-lane, poorly maintained road that traverses through a small mountain range, forest (with many landslides because of clear-cutting), and so much rain that sometimes that road is just closed. The road going north was also closed for several months and from what I have heard is in deep trouble, although that’s supposed to be a secret. It’s going to collapse.

I didn’t know this when I chose where to live. I grew up outside Los Angeles! There’s a Catholic Church every few miles.

But there IS a Mass (two, counting the Saturday Vigil Mass) and even it it’s not in Latin, it is Catholic and is a real Mass and I love it so much.

I’m going to start praying for people who are in even worse situtations than mine. We have twice as many Masses as your in-laws. With the shortage of priests it’s not surprising to me that one priest covers two parishes. And he is there most of the time and he does a good job. But I haven’t been able to be enrolled for the Brown Scapular although I’ve worn it for months. Confessions are 30 minutes before Mass and for a few other times. Private Confessions can be requested but I’m sorry to say that our priest is from Sri Lanka, and although he is obviously well-educated, sometimes he doesn’t understand words like “appointment.” I’ve requested that the Eucharist be brought to me. It was brought once.

I need to go to Mass! I want to go to Mass! And not just on Easter but every time a Mass is offered - no matter the time or day. I believe the Sunday after Easter is a very important day to attend Mass but I can’t remember why (I think it has to do with plenary indulgences).

Sorry to be wordy. Thank you for your prayers. Please God, help me get to Mass on the day celebrating Your Resurrection and the completion of Your sacrifice.
 
Melchior said:
I never said that at all, actually. I said :

“because some people who visit this subforum attend the Ordinary Form and partake in traditionalist practices. Lectio Divina, fasting, receiving the Eucharist on the tongue, frequent Confession, daily Mass, praying LOTH and/or the Rosary, are all what most consider traditionalist practices, yet all can be done while attending the Ordinary Form”.

I then said:

"Several people here have described them as traditional practices, which is why my language reflected that. In fact, there was a nice thread about the Dominican Rosary and how it is “the traditional Rosary”, and that fifteen decades is “the traditional way”."

I’m not quite sure why you’re saying that I said certain things when I never said them.
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Please excuse my ignorance. What does “LOTH” mean? Thanks.
 
LittleSoldier said:
Please excuse my ignorance. What does “LOTH” mean? Thanks.
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LOTH is the abbreviation for the Liturgy of the Hours the or Divine Office. It is the official set of daily prayers prescribed by the Catholic Church to be recited at the canonical hours by the clergy, religious orders, and lay persons. I believe they are broken down by the times that they are read and include Matins, Terce, Sexts, None, Vespers and Compline. They used to be more extensive but have been simplified sinceVvatican II. They include Psalms, Hymns, and Scripture readings. These are grouped in a specific order and are prayed daily.
 
Thank you, ProVobis and Mike. I googled “LOTH” and found that “loth” is an obsolete word which meant “loathe.” I knew it was used in the post as an acronym but I thought it was interesting that “loth” means something so awful. Before I read your posts I googled “praying LOTH” and discovered that it is the Liturgy of the Hours.

I’d never heard of it. I’m going to research it and maybe I can do it.

There is so much to learn about Catholicism. The Rosary, the Mercy Chaplet, the Brown Scapular (and other scapulars), plenary and partial indulgences, and now this.

Anyway, thanks again. I can research it now and find out about it. 🙂
 
EcceAgnusDei said:
A deacon in California preached that the Church doing away with the EF after Vatican II was like Jesus chasing the money changers out of the temple. He had a slideshow of the EF to make his points, calling aspects of the EF “money changers.” Here’s an excerpt:

(full homily here: ctkph.org/homilies/homilies2012/homily031112.html)
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I find that offensive, I would have got up and walked out. I have done it before and I’m not afraid to do it again. The part that cracks me up is the “fingers”. If that’s the case then maybe I should walk up and raise the host while the priest says the words, after all, what difference does it make? Don’t they anoint a priest’s hands at ordination? Doesn’t that set those hands apart?

I personally LIKED the old confessionals and find myself looking all over to find them. I cannot kneel so I stand inside and make my Confession. The small portable screens are useless (at least the ones I have seen) if you are unable to kneel you stand there and the priest can see your head over the top of the screen. It’s a joke. I like the old box–I love the heavy ornate wood, the old architecture. Some churches look more like an auditorium than a sanctuary. .
 
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