Dealing with a gay in law with children

[Tis_Bearself]

explain)

This actually covers a multitude of situations.
When I was growing up, in our huge extended family we had a couple of romantic relationships that went against Catholic teaching. One cousin was dating a married man for quite a long time; another relative had left his wife and was living with a woman; somebody else was divorced and remarried more than once.

My mother simply letting me know she didn’t approve of these situations because they weren’t what the Church teaches was sufficient to get the message across to me. Mom didn’t have to go to the family gatherings and make a point of not speaking to the relative who was committing the “sin” in order to let me know it was wrong to date a married guy or leave your wife for your mistress or have two divorces in a row.

As I got older, Mom could also explain to me some of the context and family dysfunction that led to these situations.

I realize it’s frustrating when relatives choose to live a lifestyle that you think is wrong, because it can be really difficult to avoid them entirely and keep your kids away from them, but you also have to balance that with the idea that a loving family, including the loving global family of Catholics, doesn’t shun people or kick them out or treat them rudely because they sin. We all sin. Just because you’re not having gay sex doesn’t mean you’re not doing something else God might see as equally bad.

 

[KD8TZC]

I have a gay uncle, and I have taken the stance of I must love him as God has asked us all to love each other. You don’t have to love their sins (Lord knows I am not without sin, so as Pope Francis says, who am I to judge), but we must love them as we are all children of God. I know, it can be difficult to do, but nobody said being a Christian was easy.

I will be praying for you.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

The uncle question is just a symptom of what I believe to be the larger issue.

And that is this: Treat your relative as Jesus would, and teach your children about their “uncle” in the manner that Jesus would, too.

The fact is, there are SO many families out there living in irregular situations, including heterosexual persons: There are single mothers, cohabitating couples, unfaithful couples, and of course today’s general cultural outlook that tosses chastity and virginity aside altogether. And don’t forget, faithful couples often use artificial contraception. Again, against church teaching as well.

There are just so many other things we should be focusing on besides the fact that someone is gay.

And yes, you are concerned for your children. But again, this need not be an issue if you just set the example of love and compassion. This means extending it to your gay relatives as well. If they feel threatened or ostracized, you really have to understand that.

Technically, the one thing that is against church teaching in this context is ANY non procreatively-ordered sex outside of marriage. But perhaps try to affirm that which is good in your relative’s relationship.

Just because a married couple is straight doesn’t meant that relationship is good or healthy in every way. And just because a couple is homosexual doesn’t mean their relationship is bad or unhealthy in every way, either. I don’t know them, but they could just as well be self-giving, compassionate, full of service and selflessness, and genuine love.

You could simply tell your child that “your uncle loves his friend very much, and they are so close they are like family. We want to welcome him as part of our family too.”

And if the marriage question comes up, simply say something like “your uncles are married, but not in the same way your parents are. But that’s ok, because we love them, and they are like family anyway.”

If you raise your children early on in a way that they will cause them to later recognize as a sort of unfair discrimination, say when they are teenagers, then they may well reject their faith. They are going to grow up in a society that is increasingly accepting of LGBT people.

Again, go the way of Jesus.

 

[Phemie]

I knew people growing up who called close friends of the family ‘aunt’ and ‘uncle’ so I think it would be like that.

We had so many non-relatives that we called aunt and uncle that it came as a surprise to me to find out in my mid-50s that three women I had assumed were non-related “aunts” were actually my great-aunts. Until that time I’d assumed my grandfather only had a one sibling and two half-siblings. Surprise!

 

[Brendea]

God teaches us love forgiveness respect and tolerance how can you be a good role model to your children by not showing them first hand what God teaches us.
Personally I’d have no problem with my kids calling a brother in laws partner uncle in that situation out of respect. Mabye read up on what pope Francis said about homosexuality use this as a teaching tool they will learn about LBGT some other way why not teach them in a controlled environment

 

[on_the_hill]

Here’s what I think.
If the B-I-L and his friend threaten not to spend Christmas with you, then let 'em.

Seems to me like they’re demanding your acceptance of them without accepting your position.

I’ve been through my share of extended family turmoil around holidays. In the long run, it’s just not worth it. Stay away from the BIL if that’s what it takes. Do what makes you and your family (wife and kids) happy. They are your no. 1 priority. You’ll be happier, there will be less stress.

 

[MikeInVA]

God teaches us … and tolerance

No, he does not. Jesus called on sinners to repent; he did not validate their immoral behavior.

Mabye read up on what pope Francis said about homosexuality

Are you referring to “who am I to judge?” He was talking about not knowing what is in a person’s heart, not about accepting/tolerating homosexuality.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

If the in-law was divorced without annulment and remarried to a woman, would you tell your kids to not call the woman “aunt”?

In my family we wouldn’t, and they aren’t even Catholic. In my family all additional spouses get called by their first names.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If it’s a rule that applies to everyone, then fine, it’s the family rule. I may choose to do things differently in my family, and your family can make your own choice.

It’s different when you’re singling out the gay couple for special treatment while letting people in other irregular-status relationships slide past.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

My children call older family friends ‘aunt’ and ‘uncle.’ The title doesn’t have to signify a marriage —it can just be a respectful form of address to an adult who’s too close to the family to be addressed as ‘Mister.’

My husband and I settled on this even though it isn’t a family wide norm. We just didn’t like the sound of Mr. and Ms. It seemed too formal.

@fjc: I understand your impulse. We are trying to keep our kids from having to deal with societal ideas about sex for as long as possible. Whether we are talking about heterosexual or homosexual, our society has lost a coherent sense of sexual morality. Nevertheless, this defensive posture only works for so long. Teach your children about Catholic sexual morality in general. It will be easier to explain the situation with their uncle then.

 

[MikeInVA]

It’s different when you’re singling out the gay couple for special treatment while letting people in other irregular-status relationships slide past.

I’m sure I don’t have a moral leg to stand on here, but I do think there is a difference between a natural, albeit immoral relationship, and an unnatural immoral relationship. I may not know for certain if the individuals have received an annulment, but I do know that two men cannot be married.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If individuals are your family members and are coming over to your house frequently enough for calling them “aunt” or “uncle” to be an issue, then I would think you would have some idea if they have had an annulment, or could ask them, since they aren’t strangers or work colleagues or somebody you just know casually.

Growing up, everybody in our large family was well aware of who was in an irregular relationship, usually because the relatives of the persons doing it were not happy about it and would discuss it with their siblings, parents and so on trying to deal with their feelings and how to handle situations like “is Uncle going to bring his live-in girlfriend to the family gathering where his wife has also been invited?”

Nowadays everybody looks the other way at couples who are living together or divorced and in another relationship though not annulled, but because the gay people’s “sin” is “visible”, they get singled out for ill-treatment at family gatherings, which is very unfair.

 

[MikeInVA]

air.

I don’t think most 8 year olds (or adults, for that matter) understand the difference between divorced and annulled, but I would expect them to notice the difference between a man and a women and two men.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

They are 8. If the two men aren’t engaging in major PDA in front of everyone, children are unlikely to think much about what goes on between two men together. They would just see it as Uncle Joe and his friend Jack.

I understand that parents may not want their children to see such relationships as “normal” or “acceptable” but kindness to others begins at home. If one really feels that they need to single out the gay couple, then they need to stop attending the family gatherings with them and deal with whatever family fallout results from that.

 

[MikeInVA]

I would agree, if they men were content to be “Uncle Joe and his friend Jack”, but I’m assuming from the OP that they are not willing to be known as “just friends”.

 

[Bradskii]

‘When two people love each other very much, sometimes they want to get married to each other’.

Tell the kids that and answer all further questions as honestly as you can. But I think they’d be happy with that.

 

[MikeInVA]

Why expose children to it? If I had the same situation in my family I would probably not engage in any family gatherings at all until my kids were older (if at all).

 

[Don_Ruggero]

So I have a gay brother in law, he is “married” to his partner. It’s my wife’s brother, we have children. Her sister also had children. Unfortunately her sisters kids address the partner as “uncle” which upset me greatly because it was never discussed. My kids do not call him that and they have noticed. And it bothers them. The rule has always been in the family, no PDA in front of the kids. But the partner is basically far left activist on this issue which doesn’t help either. No one has ostracized or cut him off. They come to all the family gatherings. But my kids are young and we have just told them they are best buddies. No PDA. That was enough for me to keep peace. I am obviously not going to start a war wth my in law family. Well lately it’s not enough, and it has always been the elephant in the room. They threatened not to spend Christmas with any of us, a drunk text he sent out. But my wife is going to have to try and have a heart to hear. My fear is, they won’t want any rules anymore. She also was never convinced the uncle thing was the right call, but to me it was such an obvious thing, if you are trying to keep that element of their relationship hidden, using that term is going to be problematic in the long run. In fact her sister has already told them they are married.

I have read through this whole thread.

It seems the original poster has not returned in over a week – but the point that is unclear to me is where these family gatherings are occurring. Much of the matter turns on that precise point. If the gatherings are occurring in the home of he and his wife that is one matter and he and his wife have a greater latitude in making requests. If, on the other hand, these family events occur in the home of another member of the wife’s family or even some other venue, that is an entirely different scenario with a different dynamic. Most especially since the poster’s wife and other members of her family seem to have varying different positions from the original poster regarding how to relate to their family member and the gentleman to whom he is civilly married.

It seems to me that one viable option would be for the original poster and the children might withdraw from attending the family gathering under the pretext that one or another child needed to stay home for health reasons – without specifying the concerns was their spiritual health – and that the father was caring for him/her and the child’s sibling as well. Obviously, that is a very short-term stopgap until an age appropriate explanation for the young ones can be made.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I’m sure I don’t have a moral leg to stand on here, but I do think there is a difference between a natural, albeit immoral relationship, and an unnatural immoral relationship. I may not know for certain if the individuals have received an annulment, but I do know that two men cannot be married.

And back a few decades ago, before no-fault divorce, you would have said “I do know that someone who attempts marriage after a civil divorce cannot be married.” The law changed and society began to accept serial monogamy without the benefit of the Church’s blessing as acceptable.

Again, the law has changed. By the time your kids are grown up, no one will bat an eye about two men entering a legal marriage any more than they do two thrice divorced people entering a legal marriage.

 

[Bradskii]

Why expose children to it? If I had the same situation in my family I would probably not engage in any family gatherings at all until my kids were older (if at all).

Your choices are to expose your children to it or hide it from them. Your call, obviously.