Dealing with criticism in my parish community when discussing infertility treatment

[Viewer]

You are still open to life because you are not applying anything ARTIFICIAL to something that is NATURAL…the gift of sex

So deliberately studying ones cycle and objectifying the time frame to a point of infertility as if the sex act were a timed science experiment is…Natural?

I don’t think thats very natural at all.

 

[Mayita30]

OP how old are you??

Seriously have you considered adoption? Probably a cute baby girl or a baby boy is just waitng to be in your loving home. God bless

 

[Viewer]

I agree. Op is in fact Baby killer. This is clearly Satan’s influence along with the LAMEstream media.

Evil creature, how dare you make such a heinous claim.

That makes every woman whos ever had a miscarriage a murderess too.

It’s good to see charity and compassion at work within the Catholic church. No wonder the media loves us so much when we have creatures like you spouting bile. Go crawl back under your rock already.

 

[jmcrae]

Just an interesting thought that I had.

How is it that a couple who is having intercourse and avoiding their fertile window (therefore having NO chance of conceiving) any more “open to life” than a couple using a condom.

NFP isn’t a positive good; rather, it’s a neutral “not evil.”

The reason NFP gets by is because it is not a sin to not have sex. Nor is it a sin to not try to have children all the time.

Of course, if someone is specifically using NFP to avoid having children altogether, that would be a sin. But if they are making a decision this month, “we aren’t ready to get pregnant this month; maybe next month” without specifically intending never to have children, that’s not a sin.

You’re right, though - when NFP is treated as a form of birth control, it becomes just as sinful as any chemical or prophylactic form of birth control. NFP is also not good for marriages in the long term - it is only supposed to be used in short-term situations.

 

[Mayita30]

So deliberately studying ones cycle and objectifying the time frame to a point of infertility as if the sex act were a timed science experiment is…Natural?

I don’t think thats very natural at all.

Sex is a demonstration of love between a husband and wife. It can be done during the fertile or not fertile times.

The church is very clear on its stance.

Avoiding children is wrong because that is SELFISHNESS

NFP should only be used for GRAVE REASONS

Each situation is different so IT IS NOT GOOD TO JUDGE A COUPLE

this should be discussed with a SPIRITUAL ADVISOR

 

[Mayita30]

I agree. Op is in fact Baby killer. This is clearly Satan’s influence along with the LAMEstream media.

I SEE you jst opened this account. You must be a troll… We don’t call people baby killers

 

[Viewer]

Sex is a demonstration of love between a husband and wife. It can be done during the fertile or not fertile times.

The church is very clear on its stance.

Avoiding children is wrong because that is SELFISHNESS

NFP should only be used for GRAVE REASONS

Each situation is different so IT IS NOT GOOD TO JUDGE A COUPLE

this should be discussed with a SPIRITUAL ADVISOR

Uh huh…Yes, lets all be irresponsible and keep dropping kids left and right until we lose our homes and go bankrupt

That’s exactly what has happened to three families now in my parish who kept pumping out child after child, expecting the state to fund their lifestyle. They’re now homeless despite having full time jobs, because they had too many damn kids!

No, contraception is required. We do not want to reach the point of selling our excessive children off into brothels, there has to be a cut of point on children.

 

[Mayita30]

Uh huh…Yes, lets all be irresponsible and keep dropping kids left and right until we lose our homes and go bankrupt
That’s exactly what has happened to three families now in my parish who kept pumping out child after child, expecting the state to fund their lifestyle. They’re now homeless despite having full time jobs, because they had too many damn kids!

No, contraception is required. We do not want to reach the point of selling our excessive children off into brothels, there has to be a cut of point on children.

This is based on the assumption that everytime you have sex, you get pregnant. typical of the contraceptive mentality. Havent you heard lots of cases of people striving to have kids like this thread??? Again, it is not us who control our lives…

People may have all the sex they want without contraception and still not have kids !!! or there are cases where people use contraceptives and still get pregnant. It is really up to God if you really and truly believe that there is a God ( Do you??, really???)

 

[Mayita30]

Viewer

Regarding the 3 families who you say keep PUMPING OUT KIDS , who are you to judge?

Are they asking from the government???

 

[jmcrae]

Uh huh…Yes, lets all be irresponsible and keep dropping kids left and right until we lose our homes and go bankrupt

Who said that? “Serious reasons” also include financial reasons, you know.

That’s exactly what has happened to three families now in my parish who kept pumping out child after child, expecting the state to fund their lifestyle. They’re now homeless despite having full time jobs, because they had too many damn kids!

And you’re sure it’s the kids who cost so much money; not the cars, or the house, or the vacations, or private school …

I know several families with lots of kids; the Moms stay home and the Dads work two or three jobs until the sons get old enough to work; they share one vehicle, the kids share bedrooms, and they go to public schools or else are home-schooled. None of them are expecting the government to pick up the tab for their lifestyle; in fact, most of them vote Conservative (anti-welfare).

 

[Cathmomof6]

I disagree with this. While obviously more children can increase expenses, I would venture to say that many large families spend very close to what the typical 2 child family spends. We are expecting our seventh baby, and with the exception of maybe groceries, our total household bill has not increased all that much. Clothes and toys are all reused. We are hardly being forced into bankruptcy. In fact, with seven kids, we have come to spend more time at home as it is just easier than running around. My sister, on the other hand, has two kids, and they are always going shopping, eating out, watching movies, etc. We probably spend similar amounts even with our much larger family. I sometimes feel bad that my kids don’t get all that “stuff”, but I am reassured that that the eternal souls of their siblings is a much better gift!!

 

[Mayita30]

I disagree with this. While obviously more children can increase expenses, I would venture to say that many large families spend very close to what the typical 2 child family spends. We are expecting our seventh baby, and with the exception of maybe groceries, our total household bill has not increased all that much. Clothes and toys are all reused. We are hardly being forced into bankruptcy. In fact, with seven kids, we have come to spend more time at home as it is just easier than running around. My sister, on the other hand, has two kids, and they are always going shopping, eating out, watching movies, etc. We probably spend similar amouants even with our much larger family. I sometimes feel bad that my kids don’t get all that “stuff”, but I am reassured that that the eternal souls of their siblings is a much better gift!!

nice to hear that cathmom6. I like hearing stories like that. It gives a smile to face. God has really blessed you a lot. Please pray for us who are longing for children, for the OP and also please pray for me that my annulment will be granted fast and for the blessing of a new family and children. thanks

 

[Rau]

Just an interesting thought that I had.

How is it that a couple who is having intercourse and avoiding their fertile window (therefore having NO chance of conceiving) any more “open to life” than a couple using a condom.

Scientifically speaking, you have a 48-72 hour window in which to have intercourse that would result in conception. If you’re using “natural family planning” to avoid that window, you’re no more open to life than someone using birth control or a condom…

Actually I’d say that someone having sex during their fertile window while using a condom is actually MORE open to life as the failure of a condom in the fertile window would result in a 20% chance of pregnancy, where abstinence in the fertile window would result in a 0% chance of pregnancy even if they had unprotected sex the rest of the month.

Sex between my husband and I will never be procreative. It is scientifically impossible for us to conceive without assistance. Therefore we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.

So while all of the “good little catholics” get past the man-made demand to not use birth control by avoiding their fertile window, my husband and I will rely on the advances in scientific technology that God has made possible in order to grow our family.

I guess this is another menu item in the cafeteria that does not appeal?

There are myriad threads on this site where you will find excellent answers to some of the questions you raise. And you will discover what procreative means.

 

[pensmama87]

Uh huh…Yes, lets all be irresponsible and keep dropping kids left and right until we lose our homes and go bankrupt

That’s exactly what has happened to three families now in my parish who kept pumping out child after child, expecting the state to fund their lifestyle. They’re now homeless despite having full time jobs, because they had too many damn kids!

No, contraception is required. We do not want to reach the point of selling our excessive children off into brothels, there has to be a cut of point on children.

:doh2::doh2::doh2::banghead::banghead:

And that’s all I have to say about how this thread has turned out.

 

[Cathmomof6]

nice to hear that cathmom6. I like hearing stories like that. It gives a smile to face. God has really blessed you a lot. Please pray for us who are longing for children, for the OP and also please pray for me that my annulment will be granted fast and for the blessing of a new family and children. thanks

I will be praying for you and the OP. While I cannot personally empathize with infertility, I am sure it is heart-wrenching to say the least. We are struggling with the other end of the spectrum. Hubby and I are near 40, and it sure seems like it would be easy to just get a vasectomy and not worry about more babies, especially since I have developed significant arthritis in my hips and will likely need a new hip in my 40s if not earlier!! We all have our crosses:shrug: We have decided to continue with NFP and will take any “unplanned” babies!

And to the OP’s question about the difference between avoiding using NFP and avoiding using condoms, I have read dozens of other threads on this exact topic. You should look them up, as some posters have already explained it quite well!!

 

[Judas_The_Rock]

nice to hear that cathmom6. I like hearing stories like that. It gives a smile to face. God has really blessed you a lot. Please pray for us who are longing for children, for the OP and also please pray for me that my annulment will be granted fast and for the blessing of a new family and children. thanks

ANNULMENT? You must be a Protestant heathen. OP is definitely a baby killer and the failure for people to have children is caused by not staying on the true path of the LORD.

Peace and Love,
Judas The Rock:thumbsup:

 

[Mayita30]

ANNULMENT? You must be a Protestant heathen. OP is definitely a baby killer and the failure for people to have children is caused by not staying on the true path of the LORD.

Peace and Love,
Judas The Rock:thumbsup:

troll

 

[april32010]

ANNULMENT? You must be a Protestant heathen. OP is definitely a baby killer and the failure for people to have children is caused by not staying on the true path of the LORD.

Peace and Love,
Judas The Rock:thumbsup:

:tsktsk: [SIGN]BYE, BYE[/SIGN]

 

[Rau]

Just an interesting thought that I had.

How is it that a couple who is having intercourse and avoiding their fertile window (therefore having NO chance of conceiving) any more “open to life” than a couple using a condom.

Scientifically speaking, you have a 48-72 hour window in which to have intercourse that would result in conception. If you’re using “natural family planning” to avoid that window, you’re no more open to life than someone using birth control or a condom…

Actually I’d say that someone having sex during their fertile window while using a condom is actually MORE open to life as the failure of a condom in the fertile window would result in a 20% chance of pregnancy, where abstinence in the fertile window would result in a 0% chance of pregnancy even if they had unprotected sex the rest of the month.

Sex between my husband and I will never be procreative. It is scientifically impossible for us to conceive without assistance. Therefore we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.

So while all of the “good little catholics” get past the man-made demand to not use birth control by avoiding their fertile window, my husband and I will rely on the advances in scientific technology that God has made possible in order to grow our family.

Your misunderstanding of this subject is so profound I have to comment.

First - “procreative” does not mean what you think. It just means that the act is “ordered” toward creation. Meaning, the act was not distorted or interfered with to prevent creation (ie. by use of Pill, Condom, etc.). Your marital relations (I assume) are entirely procreative; your health and/or fertility issues are not relevant.

“Open to Life” - I don’t know what you think that means. It does not mean that you set out to have a child at every opportunity; It does not mean that you must never say - “we’re not ready for a child at the moment”. It does mean that sex is procreative (ie. if you have it, then don’t mess with it); It does mean that you have a generous attitude to potential children. It does mean that you would never abort.

We act properly and responsibly when we continually review our readiness and capability to conceive each month. The Catechism makes this point in reference to “responsible parenthood”. Where we are not ready or able, we act properly to abstain from sex when the likelihood of conception is high. We can of course be selfish in that decision (regardless of whether NFP or the condom is the vehicle). We are called not to be selfish.

 

[april32010]

:crying: :banghead: :ehh: :frighten: :jrbirdman: :egyptian: :whackadoo: