Dealing with family who doesn't care for their kids

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I can make it easy for you guys and take lice out of the equation. If I did call CPS, I don’t think I would mention the lice. This is the first time I’ve heard they had it; there hasn’t been enough time to know if they are taking care of it or not. Plus, I heard through the grapevine (although a reliable source). As we all know, anyone can get lice. We can’t know for sure if the lice originated from this family or the 7 year old caught it at school, etc- especially since this is the first time I’ve heard they had it. There are so many other things going on the lice won’t make or break a case against them.
 
Dasi4747 said:
She doesn’t use drugs or drink (to my knowledge). I would think she has low IQ. Her parents did not care for their children either. She is the smartest of her family, sadly. She did not experience good parenting and doesn’t have that to draw on. She recognizes her side of the family doesn’t care for their children (she complains of her sisters not taking care of their children) yet she fails to make the connection she does the same exact things with her own children.

It’s just a horrible vicious cycle…children are all different so it’s hard to say with any certainty, but her children also seem behind developmentally, or may have low IQ as well. It just doesn’t seem like anyone is “home” when you look at them. While some of it may be genetic, I think it’s a lot the environment they are raised in as well. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of one-on-one time and attention with the kids. If you sit down and actually give the children attention and play with them, they light up. They don’t seem to get enough physical attention either. I think they are so used to not being touched they are actually scared if you try and touch/hold them. I’m not talking about being shy (my son is shy- he will curl up into me when strangers are around) but not knowing how to react to touch. They have seemed terrified when I have tried to hold them and comfort them when they were crying (while I was babysitting) or change their diapers. My godchild has actually started saying “Ma Ma” around me several times when I would start giving her just any kind of attention. Other than that I don’t think I’ve heard her say really any coherent words (and she’s now 3).

How do you help someone with low IQ???
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She needed help with her first baby. Actually she must have needed help from the start of her life, but she has little to draw from in order to parent effectively. Some people recognize that they have a deficit, and accept help, and then others…🤷 They just live, and don’t think too much about what happens next. She sounds like she’s just living day to day and not trying to improve her situation or improve her childrens’ situation. She probably can’t think that way.

If that’s really the problem, I’d try to find some other way to reach her than calling CPS. Their church? Any other local social agencies? Any other church, aside from the Catholic Church? I’d probably try to find someone to help mentor her, without her knowing it’s specifically to help her. She needs a friend, but one who is non-threatening. Maybe you can be that person for her, maybe you are called to be that. If not, then help find someone who can fill that role.

I’m sure there are millions of her in the world.
 
“How do you help someone with low IQ”

You have a lot of it figured out already. This will help.
  1. you teach the principle,
  2. the reason why
  3. the action you want them to take.
ie; “Poopie diapers need to be changed right away, or the poop will eat holes in their skin. Babies need healthy bottoms. Please change Kelly’s diaper. :)” Yes you will need to repeat your lessons frequently. Eventually your voice “lessons” will play in her head even when you don’t say it.

The lice situation is important. Perhaps if you offered to help with it, that would give you an opportunity to get more involved, and see the children. Once the lice was taken care of I would drop by once a week, and bring a bag of fruit to share with the kids. Maybe bring by some flavored tea bags to share with the mom while you chat! It could be fun, and set up a new family tradition that all the kids would enjoy. Mmmm lots of good choices; Apples, oranges, water melon, chocolate dipped strawberrys…

Please know that I am praying for you all.

They are fortunate to have an Auntie who Loves, and cares about them!
 
Dasi4747 said:
…but her children also seem behind developmentally, or may have low IQ as well. It just doesn’t seem like anyone is “home” when you look at them. While some of it may be genetic, I think it’s a lot the environment they are raised in as well. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of one-on-one time and attention with the kids. If you sit down and actually give the children attention and play with them, they light up. They don’t seem to get enough physical attention either. I think they are so used to not being touched they are actually scared if you try and touch/hold them. I’m not talking about being shy (my son is shy- he will curl up into me when strangers are around) but not knowing how to react to touch. They have seemed terrified when I have tried to hold them and comfort them when they were crying (while I was babysitting) or change their diapers. My godchild has actually started saying “Ma Ma” around me several times when I would start giving her just any kind of attention. Other than that I don’t think I’ve heard her say really any coherent words (and she’s now 3).

How do you help someone with low IQ???
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:idea:
This sounds like there’s more than just a low IQ problem–it sounds like some things often found on the autism spectrum: speech delay, sensitivity to touch, hygiene problems, not taking normal hints to the point of requiring bluntness, etc.

I encourage you to learn (and encourage this mom to learn) more about autism. Since your Godchild has these speech delays, I’d start by suggesting that the mom contact the school district to see if there’s help available for three year old’s speech delay. I’m normally a diplomatic, non-pushy person, but I would PUSH her to get help for the child’s speech delay. I would be very blunt–the speech delay you just described not normal and the child needs help. Early intervention for serious delays is often available for free through public school districts.

The mom and dad might greatly benefit from parenting lessons taught with some methods appropriate for people with autism and for caring for those with autism. It sounds like hygiene is particularly a problem for the mom, but if her children are sensitive to touch, she might be avoiding baths, diaper changes and hair care simply because the children don’t respond well to it. (And by "don’t respond well, I’m being subtle–combing and washing hair might seem like torture!) The mom might herself have problems with doing some of these things for her children. In any case, what seems like normal child care might be far more difficult for this family than you realize–and the underlying cause might be more than parental neglect.

(I don’t mean to diagnose. Autism might not be the exactly right diagnosis–but something is going on here that’s far beyond the normal, and I suggest you start by looking at autism spectrum disorders.)
 
There’s been some very good advice on this thread.

I just thought of an idea that might be helpful. You may be able to tell whether the lice treatment is happening just by looking at the kids’ heads and seeing if their hair is suddenly very clean and neat. If it’s dirty and ratty, there’s no chance in heck that the nit-combing is happening. (They may still need help with nit-picking even if they are making an effort, though.)
 
Dasi4747 said:
I don’t think it’s depression. Mr. & Mrs. X are very happy with their family and life. It is not a “I need help…I am tired…This is too much”. Whenever help (in various aspects) has been offered, it has been turned down. It is a “Our life is great; our children are a blessing; We want to have more children” all the while not understanding they are not doing their job caring for their current children. I do think Mrs. X would like more help from Mr. X, but not to the point where she is depressed about it. She is a positive happy person. However, I know she is also a people-pleaser and has trouble asserting herself with her husband when she disagrees with him. I don’t think she would be offended if I suggested a physical but she would probably ask why I suggested it. And she probably wouldn’t go to one as they don’t have insurance and wouldn’t be able to afford it. You would think, if they are overwhelmed with their obligations, they would practice NFP to avoid pregnancy for a time, until they were at a place where they could care for their current children and another child. But none of their children were surprises (with the exception of their first) and I know they actively tried to conceive their newest baby. That said, some in the family have wondered if Mr. X is depressed. He seems unmotivated and nonadaptive.

I’ve decided I’m going to talk about this with my husband, and anything I do will be with him or with his blessing. I have never kept ANYTHING from my husband, and even if I decided to I doubt I would stick with it for very long. I’ve been praying that God will open his heart to a discussion on the matter.

I think the main reasons he doesn’t want to get involved are:
  1. He’s already pushed family members away with talking to them about the truth of the Catholic Church. The other brother (Mr. Z), has a strained relationship with my husband now. Mr. Z thinks my husband (and other people) should not get involved with other people
    s business and use words to tell people how to live their life (only lead by example). So when my husband has tried to talk to Mr. Z about religion (Mr. Z has fallen away from his Catholic upbringing), he angered Mr. Z. Mr. Z and Mr. X are extremely close and my husband feels if he gets involved with Mr. X then Mr. X will only shun my husband and get closer to Mr. Z, causing a rift within the family. My husband is trying really hard to unite the family right now, as we are not as close as we used to be, and he thinks getting involved with Mr. X’s business will undermine his family unity efforts. His sisters are already kind of starting a little clique against my husband’s parents. And with the other two brothers against us, it’s going to destroy the family. Because of Mr. Z’s beliefs, we would never be able to get him on board for an intervention with Mr. X.
  2. My husband thinks nothing we can say or do will make Mr. and Mrs. X change their ways (Short of taking their children in- which they would never willingly hand over.)
  3. He’s a man. He doesn’t get as emotionally involved as I do. If it’s “out of sight” it’s “out of mind”. When we have baby sat for them, and changed those bloody horrible diapers, my husband walked away and didn’t want to look. He doesn’t dwell on things as I do.In fact he sometimes gets upset with me for repeatedly bringing things up and being “negative”. He has told me he has a soft spot for the oldest child; but since she’s more cared for now, that doesn’t really help. He does recognize that what they do is wrong. But I don’t think he recognizes the severity of it as I do. I grew up in an abusive home and remember wanting an advocate and wanting to be out of the situation. I can relate to the children. My husband doesn’t have that advantage.
I’m going to talk with my husband on Sunday about it. Giving myself some time to pray for both of us first before having the conversation./QUOTE:

Mary:
Prayers for a fruitful dialoge with DH. Prayers for all involved and a good outcome whereby
Mr and Mrs can come to learn better parenting skills.
Peace in Christ.
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gardenswithkids,

I will keep autism/ASD in mind. It’s a good point to consider. Although my first thought is that it’s more due to the neglect. ALL of her children are like this (not just my godchild). While I know it’s common for it to run in families, the difference is the oldest was the same way until she started going to school. Now that she has gone to school, she is is doing great (comparatively). I think having a teacher that works with her like a normal person is the key. I’ve witnessed the way they interact with their children. She talks to them like most people would talk to a 3 month old baby. While it could just be when they are out visiting (and not what they do in their own home), I have never seen her play with her children. I’ve known them for 7 years. The kids are usually left alone in rooms by themselves or each other, from what I see. As far as the touching and hygiene…I doesn’t seem like it’s hard so she doesn’t try to care for them. I just don’t think she knows how to, or that she’s supposed to. Her own hygiene isn’t great either.

I will look into it and see if it sounds like autism/ASD. I don’t want to rule anything out that may be helpful. Whats frustrating is that Mrs. X may have low IQ and not know any better; Mr. X doesn’t have that excuse.
 
Every one of my foster babies reacted negatively to touch when they first arrived. The cuddling, hugging, and melting into mama in that relaxed state is actually a learned skill. Most babies learn from mom & dad they are loved and cared for, and that touch is good, and positive. Most foster kids have never experienced that, or when they were touched it was to be yanked, shoved, or hit. When they lived with us they quickly adapted to warm, positive touch, and enjoyed it!

Positive touch is another good thing you could share when you visit. I would simply state. I’m a hugger! Open my arms and hug the kids with big smiles, when I arrive, and when I leave. They’ll catch on. A gentle hand on the shoulder when complimenting them also teaches touching is a positive experience.
 
Dasi4747 said:
gardenswithkids,

I will keep autism/ASD in mind. It’s a good point to consider. Although my first thought is that it’s more due to the neglect. ALL of her children are like this (not just my godchild). While I know it’s common for it to run in families, the difference is the oldest was the same way until she started going to school. Now that she has gone to school, she is is doing great (comparatively). I think having a teacher that works with her like a normal person is the key. I’ve witnessed the way they interact with their children. She talks to them like most people would talk to a 3 month old baby. While it could just be when they are out visiting (and not what they do in their own home), I have never seen her play with her children. I’ve known them for 7 years. The kids are usually left alone in rooms by themselves or each other, from what I see. As far as the touching and hygiene…I doesn’t seem like it’s hard so she doesn’t try to care for them. I just don’t think she knows how to, or that she’s supposed to. Her own hygiene isn’t great either.

I will look into it and see if it sounds like autism/ASD. I don’t want to rule anything out that may be helpful. Whats frustrating is that Mrs. X may have low IQ and not know any better; Mr. X doesn’t have that excuse.
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Yes, please keep that in mind. Mrs. X and/or Mr. X themselves may have something like that too if they allow the neglect that you described to happen.

Here I am being pushy, but I strongly encourage you to push her to have her child evaluated for speech delays. Just because all her children had speech delays doesn’t make it “normal”. It might be related to a low iq, neglect, or it could be something else. In either case, an evaluation by the school district for speech is a good way to start trying to get those children help! You wrote that you saw improvement once the oldest attended school. If she took her child for a free speech evaluation by the public schools, it would also be an opportunity for someone besides you to see the hygiene situation and perhaps help those kids. If an evaluator saw the neglect you described, they might have to report it. Hopefully she’d clean the children up before any evaluation–and you might even want to tell her specifically to do that.

If the schools determined the child had serious speech delays, they could provide free help. It might look to you like someone talking and playing with the child is enough–but speech therapy often looks remarkable like talking and playing with a child. A good therapist could also show the parents specific suggestions with explicit instructions on how to interact with her children.

Look, I’m a homeschooler, and I’m not particularly fond of either public schools or government intervention into parenting, so I don’t make this recommendation lightly. If it was me I would push–PUSH!–them to get a speech evaluation for my Godchild.
 
I cannot BELIEVE that you have not called CPS! This is so sad. If I knew the family you were talking about, I would call. You are giving all kinds of excuses for why you haven’t called. You have a moral obligation to call YESTERDAY. If something happens to those kids, you will share responsibility before God because you chose not to take action. I just can’t believe that you are more concerned about how your husband and MIL feel about you calling CPS than you are about the safety of the kids. So they will continue to have bleeding diaper rashes, play with dead rats, and continue to be unsupervised because your MIL and husband might not like it if you call. Tell them to get over it!! That is a travesty. Don’t make excuses like CPS didn’t do anything the first time. Call every day for a month if you need to. Do whatever it takes. Your husband’s family is extremely dysfunctional, and if he tells you not to call CPS and you follow that advice, shame on both of you.

If you don’t want to lie, why don’t you call them and tell them that you just called CPS on them (right after you call)? Don’t be afraid to be direct. Might as well tell them if it’s going to come out anyway.
 
I know how frustrating this situation can be, and how much anger it can invoke. I have been wrestling with it for years. If I have to sacrifice my relationship with my husband or his family (and I don’t think my husband would hold a grudge, btw), I am willing to do that.

But- my hesitation comes from what will truly be most effective, and best for the children. The IDEAL situation is for the parents to improve and the children remain WITH their parents. But we all know that sometimes CPS is quick to remove children from their homes, don’t do anything to help the parents, and sometimes foster homes can be WORSE than what the children already experience otherwise.

Anyone would be naive to think that’s not possible.

While involving CPS may prove valuable, it may also be more harmful for the children. I’m having the conversation with hubby tomorrow. We’ll decide together what to do and perhaps consult our priest. If I thought the children were in a LIFE-THREATENING situation, I would be more urgent. While the children aren’t living in good conditions, it’s not as if they may die tonight if I don’t. That is why I’ve given myself time to pray and think about it.

And of course, It’s always easier to say you’d do something when you’re not in the middle of it. I was quick to tell my sister to call CPS (they live out of state) on our brother, but it wouldn’t have been so easy had I been in her shoes.

I’ll try and give an update tomorrow about how the conversation goes with hubby.
 
gardenswithkids said:
Here I am being pushy, but I strongly encourage you to push her to have her child evaluated for speech delays.
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You’re allowed to be pushy 😉

I know our county has free evaluations. I think they are in the summer, though. I may suggest her taking the kids to one. Others in the family have commented on how their children do not talk, and they just laugh it off.
 
Dasi4747 said:
The IDEAL situation is for the parents to improve and the children remain WITH their parents. But we all know that sometimes CPS is quick to remove children from their homes, don’t do anything to help the parents, and sometimes foster homes can be WORSE than what the children already experience otherwise.

Anyone would be naive to think that’s not possible.

While involving CPS may prove valuable, it may also be more harmful for the children.
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So you aren’t going to call because there is a possibility that it might not help? I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that they would be put into a situation that is worse than what they are in right now. And I think you are still making excuses for failing to take action.
 
mrs_ahs said:
So you aren’t going to call because there is a possibility that it might not help? I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that they would be put into a situation that is worse than what they are in right now. And I think you are still making excuses for failing to take action.
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No.
  1. I never said I wasn’t going to call. It is still a possibility that I will call.
  2. And if I didn’t call, it wouldn’t be because there was a possibility they may be in a worse situation. It would be because I found a better solution than calling CPS.
  3. If I were making excuses as to why I shouldn’t call, it would be pretty easy to do. I doubt I’d post a thread on here getting advice and spend hours of my day worried about the situation. If that’s what I wanted to do, I would just make some lame excuse and forget about the whole thing.
  4. We’re judged on what we fail to do, but also on what we do. If I fail to act I may be judged for doing the wrong thing. On the other hand, it’s possible calling CPS (instead of directly helping) may also be the wrong call and I could be judged for it as well. You seem pretty convinced CPS will magically swoop in immediately and fix everything. Even if I called right now, it would probably be weeks before CPS even paid them a visit, since there are probably so many other families in life threatening situations that take “priority” over theirs.
My moral obligation is to help the children. It’s best to try and help them in a way that has the least risk for harming them. If CPS/foster care could potentially be a risk, I have an obligation to seek a better alternative if I can.
 
Dasi4747 said:
I know how frustrating this situation can be, and how much anger it can invoke. I have been wrestling with it for years. If I have to sacrifice my relationship with my husband or his family (and I don’t think my husband would hold a grudge, btw), I am willing to do that.

But- my hesitation comes from what will truly be most effective, and best for the children. The IDEAL situation is for the parents to improve and the children remain WITH their parents. But we all know that sometimes CPS is quick to remove children from their homes, don’t do anything to help the parents, and sometimes foster homes can be WORSE than what the children already experience otherwise.

Anyone would be naive to think that’s not possible.

While involving CPS may prove valuable, it may also be more harmful for the children. I’m having the conversation with hubby tomorrow. We’ll decide together what to do and perhaps consult our priest. If I thought the children were in a LIFE-THREATENING situation, I would be more urgent. While the children aren’t living in good conditions, it’s not as if they may die tonight if I don’t. That is why I’ve given myself time to pray and think about it.

And of course, It’s always easier to say you’d do something when you’re not in the middle of it. I was quick to tell my sister to call CPS (they live out of state) on our brother, but it wouldn’t have been so easy had I been in her shoes.

I’ll try and give an update tomorrow about how the conversation goes with hubby.
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Mary: My heartfelt thanks to all who are foster parents but yes you are right.
Not all foster homes are better. I worked in a school in need of assistance SINA school and I was shocked at how many children had breakfast and lunch at school and never ate another meal until the next day. They would be ravenous for breakfast by the time the next day came. Also, of course, we had foster children who stole food once but that is a one time example. You would indeed be naive to think fostering would be a better place and I highly doubt all children would be placed in one family.

I agree with the poster not to go behind DH’s back and I also agree that it will probably be a no brainer who called CPS. I agree to tell them you did because you were that concerned after you did so.
 
mrs_ahs said:
I cannot BELIEVE that you have not called CPS! This is so sad. If I knew the family you were talking about, I would call. You are giving all kinds of excuses for why you haven’t called. You have a moral obligation to call YESTERDAY. If something happens to those kids, you will share responsibility before God because you chose not to take action. I just can’t believe that you are more concerned about how your husband and MIL feel about you calling CPS than you are about the safety of the kids. So they will continue to have bleeding diaper rashes, play with dead rats, and continue to be unsupervised because your MIL and husband might not like it if you call. Tell them to get over it!! That is a travesty. Don’t make excuses like CPS didn’t do anything the first time. Call every day for a month if you need to. Do whatever it takes. Your husband’s family is extremely dysfunctional, and if he tells you not to call CPS and you follow that advice, shame on both of you.

If you don’t want to lie, why don’t you call them and tell them that you just called CPS on them (right after you call)? Don’t be afraid to be direct. Might as well tell them if it’s going to come out anyway.
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I agree 100% with everything you just said. Calling CPS is never an easy thing to do and often one has to do it at the risk of ticking people off…but ultimately, the kids come first. Period. Sometimes we have to do things that are uncomfortable to us for the sake of children in need. And if that family gets mad at you and ostracizes you for calling, SHAME ON THEM. I’m sorry, but that’s not a family I would want anything to do with.
 
masondoggy said:
I agree 100% with everything you just said. Calling CPS is never an easy thing to do and often one has to do it at the risk of ticking people off…but ultimately, the kids come first. Period. Sometimes we have to do things that are uncomfortable to us for the sake of children in need. And if that family gets mad at you and ostracizes you for calling, SHAME ON THEM. I’m sorry, but that’s not a family I would want anything to do with.
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Well, it’s not that simple. When it’s the husband’s family, unless you really want to completely sever ties with half of your family (husband and wife are one flesh), it’s just not that easy. There are factors that have to be considered, and actions such as calling CPS can throw you into the fire as well as removing you from the sphere of influence for the children. The OP could lose the ability to have any contact with her god-daughter, and that would be a negative. She has said that her husband’s family are not as concerned about or are more tolerant of Mr. X, Mrs. X and their parenting style. If she calls CPS, it’s going to start a war. At the very least, she and her husband need to agree to do this and they need to accept the consequences.

BTW, the incident with the rodent is hearsay only, not something she has seen.

I do think Mrs. X may have a low IQ and taking her children away from her is not going to solve the problem there. What is going on with Mr. X, I don’t know.
 
mrs_ahs said:
So you aren’t going to call because there is a possibility that it might not help? I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that they would be put into a situation that is worse than what they are in right now. And I think you are still making excuses for failing to take action.
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I am not sure how CPS works in all areas, but based on cases that I am personally aware of, I think it is highly likely that they could be put into a situation that is worse than the one they are in now.

That doesn’t mean she shouldn’t call. I think the OP is very thoughtfully considering what is best for the kids and will make a good decision regarding her family.
 
HouseArrest said:
I am not sure how CPS works in all areas, but based on cases that I am personally aware of, I think it is highly likely that they could be put into a situation that is worse than the one they are in now.

That doesn’t mean she shouldn’t call. I think the OP is very thoughtfully considering what is best for the kids and will make a good decision regarding her family.
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