Dealing with gays

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Melek

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Obviously it’s going to be tough in this day and age to oppose gay marriage. However, one thing Catholics can do is to oppose homophobia. That’s right. You can still oppose homophobia while opposing homosexual acts. Remember, the Catechism teaches there is nothing wrong with being a homosexual. You just can’t practice homosexual acts. High schools these days are tough with all the bullies calling homosexuals “faggots” and “dykes.” This doesn’t just happen in high school either unfortunately. I think as Catholics, we should strive to fight homophobic bullying while maintaining an opposition towards homosexual marriage. Such an announcement from the Catholic Church would bring light to Catholic communities all over the US.

This is a little off-topic, but supporting gay marriage outside of the Catholic Church is NOT ok for Catholics to do, right? I mean it wouldn’t make sense since two homosexuals marrying is considered a homosexual act…
 
Perhaps a good way to start would be to re- title your thread Dealing with gay people,rather than Dealing with gays which sounds uncharitable.
 
I’ve been Catholic my entire life. Attended Catholic school for 13 years, and as an adult, I’ve continued my journey and active participation inside this Church, most recently as a CORE leader for the Life Teen program. I’ve seen my wife embrace Catholicism as well because this is where she felt at home.Throughout all these years, I’ve learned many things. Agreed with some, disagreed with others.

My first “head on” crash with this topic came a few years ago when my Catholic priest cousin informed me about his decision to leave the Catholic Church. The reason? He was gay. He lived an exemplary life as a Catholic priest, giving decades of his life to tending the poor, yet he couldn’t be part of something that denied who he was.

Gays are part of the Catholic Church, whether we like it or not. Denying their existence is denying a huge part of our Church. They are here, sharing a pew with us during mass, tending to our children and teens on Church-sponsored activities, reading the Bible, and living God-centered lives.

I’ve read what the Bible says from the standpoint of those against homosexuality as well as from the standpoint of those in favor. I’ve learned that the arguments in favor of homosexuality are actually as strong as those against it.

I’m very grateful to be living in a place where fellow Catholics are open to accepting homosexuals as warmly as any heterosexual in our community. Mentoring young Catholics in their teen years has opened my eyes even more. Listening to what they have to say as young members of this Church (and as its future leaders) is completely eye opening, and ot a certain degree, wonderful.
 
Melek said:
the Catechism teaches there is nothing wrong with being a homosexual
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No, it doesn’t. It says “2358 . . . This inclination … is objectively disordered.” Granted, having a disordered attraction is not *morally *wrong in itself, but there’s definitely something wrong. But you are right, “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”
 
Ad_Orientem said:
No, it doesn’t. It says “2358 . . . This inclination … is objectively disordered.” Granted, having a disordered attraction is not *morally *wrong in itself, but there’s definitely something wrong. But you are right, “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”
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For straight people temptation is not a sin, nor is it for gay people, but the attractions are not equal - heterosexual attraction is not disordered whereas homosexual attraction is. However, **any **sexual activity outside of marriage is disordered. Gay people are no different than straight people in this.
 
LifeAt15MPH said:
My first “head on” crash with this topic came a few years ago when my Catholic priest cousin informed me about his decision to leave the Catholic Church. The reason? He was gay. He lived an exemplary life as a Catholic priest, giving decades of his life to tending the poor, yet he couldn’t be part of something that denied who he was.
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The #1 biggest problem I see with this is that your cousin placed his sexual identity above his Catholic identity. The church does not deny that he is gay, nor does it deny his struggle. What it does deny is that homosexual relation are in the same vein as heterosexual ones. Your cousin’s decision to renounce Catholicism because he was gay is, ultimately, a foolish one; based on emotion and deformed desires which he allowed to overwhelm his duty to God. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I can’t really see any other way to read it. It’s sad he was gay, it’s great that he chose to dedicate his life to God, I’m sorry he felt this phantom denial; but none of it makes his decision a good one.
Gays are part of the Catholic Church, whether we like it or not. Denying their existence is denying a huge part of our Church. They are here, sharing a pew with us during mass, tending to our children and teens on Church-sponsored activities, reading the Bible, and living God-centered lives.
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Who’s denying it? We all know it. Saying they shouldn’t have sex isn’t denying them. It’s placing the same stipulation on them that we place on everyone else. What makes them so special?
I’ve read what the Bible says from the standpoint of those against homosexuality as well as from the standpoint of those in favor. I’ve learned that that the arguments in favor of homosexuality are actually as strong as those against it.
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You’ll have to give examples, because, quite frankly, this sounds more emotion based than reason based.
 
tbcrawford said:
Perhaps a good way to start would be to re- title your thread Dealing with gay people,rather than Dealing with gays which sounds uncharitable.
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I didn’t know that was derogatory. My bad. It won’t let me edit though.😦
 
Ad_Orientem said:
No, it doesn’t. It says “2358 . . . This inclination … is objectively disordered.” Granted, having a disordered attraction is not *morally *wrong in itself, but there’s definitely something wrong. But you are right, “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”
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Well, I’m saying the person didn’t do anything wrong by simply being a homosexual. That’s just saying homosexuality is a disorder.
 
Melek said:
Obviously it’s going to be tough in this day and age to oppose gay marriage. However, one thing Catholics can do is to oppose homophobia. That’s right. You can still oppose homophobia while opposing homosexual acts. Remember, the Catechism teaches there is nothing wrong with being a homosexual. You just can’t practice homosexual acts. High schools these days are tough with all the bullies calling homosexuals “faggots” and “dykes.” This doesn’t just happen in high school either unfortunately. I think as Catholics, we should strive to fight homophobic bullying while maintaining an opposition towards homosexual marriage. Such an announcement from the Catholic Church would bring light to Catholic communities all over the US.

This is a little off-topic, but supporting gay marriage outside of the Catholic Church is NOT ok for Catholics to do, right? I mean it wouldn’t make sense since two homosexuals marrying is considered a homosexual act…
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“Homophobia” means fear of gay people which is a false term designed to effectively end meaningful discussion by labeling/name-calling the opposition. People who are against homosexual activity are not afraid of gay people.

Nobody should bully anyone, even gay people, and I’m sad to hear that it’s going on. High schools have gotten more tolerant (none of my gay friends when I was in high school a decade ago were bullied, I had several of them, people knew they were gay but left them alone), but unfortunately there will always be bullying in one form or another. If it’s not because they’re gay, they’ll find another reason to pick on other kids. Maybe someone is too skinny or too nerdy or would rather spend lunchtime reading or watching anime than socializing. We need to be anti-bullying of everyone, not just gays. Some gay kids might be bullied for other reasons and people didn’t even know they were gay (but it somehow becomes “homophobic” because they happened to be gay). It’s not okay to bully anyone for any reason. We need to stop bullying altogether and not pick specific groups over others to help because EVERYONE who is bullied suffers, there is nothing special about bullying gays because ALL bullying is wrong. And most people who are bullied are not gay. 👍

If someone is bullying someone who is gay, because they are gay, they need to stop:
  1. ALL bullying is wrong.
  2. The person being bullied will ultimately be pushed into the gay lifestyle rather than embracing a Godly lifestyle… the intention may be to turn them away from active homosexuality but it will actually do just the opposite.
I do agree about teaching people about homosexuality. It is not their choice to have same-sex attractions and they shouldn’t be picked on for having them (or for any other reason). Gay persons are welcome in the Church, too. Everyone is allowed to sit in at Mass and participate in social or charitable groups. It’s just that anyone in the state of mortal sin should not take Communion. But this isn’t specific to actively gay individuals, it’s for everyone; many people are unable to take Communion for various reasons. People who take Communion unworthily are guilty of the body and blood of Christ and are eating/drinking judgment on themselves… not a good state to be in!
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LifeAt15MPH:
I’ve read what the Bible says from the standpoint of those against homosexuality as well as frm the standpoint of those in favor. I’ve learned that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality (at least the way that some interpret it).

I’m very grateful to be living in a place where fellow Catholics are open to accepting homosexuals as warmly as any heterosexual in our community. Mentoring young Catholics in their teen years has opened my eyes even more. Listening to what they have to say as young members of this Church (and as its future leaders) is completely eye opening, and ot a certain degree, wonderful.
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I would be careful about this, because “Bible alone” theology is heretical. People bend and twist scripture into saying what they want it to mean, how they “feel,” pick verses without reading the entire passage in context. That is why the Church has Tradition, to preserve the intended meaning of the authors over the many years since the Bible was written. Cathechism, Early Church Fathers… Nowhere in the Bible does it approve of or condone homosexual activity; quite the opposite, actually. This reminds me of a UK-based “Christian” s*x/o**y club where they claim that the Bible accepts/condones what they’re doing. One should read the Bible in search of Truth, not to affirm what one wants to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
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Regarding the teens, that is unfortunate. Working with them, you are supposed to be helping form their consciences properly and giving them guidance. Just because a teen believes something does not make it good or true. Teens have all sorts of crazy ideas that need to be addressed and questions that need to be answered.
 
LifeAt15MPH said:
I’ve been Catholic my entire life. Attended Catholic school for 13 years, and as an adult, I’ve continued my journey and active participation inside this Church, most recently as a CORE leader for the Life Teen program. I’ve seen my wife embrace Catholicism as well because this is where she felt at home.Throughout all these years, I’ve learned many things. Agreed with some, disagreed with others.

My first “head on” crash with this topic came a few years ago when my Catholic priest cousin informed me about his decision to leave the Catholic Church. The reason? He was gay. He lived an exemplary life as a Catholic priest, giving decades of his life to tending the poor, yet he couldn’t be part of something that denied who he was.

Gays are part of the Catholic Church, whether we like it or not. Denying their existence is denying a huge part of our Church. They are here, sharing a pew with us during mass, tending to our children and teens on Church-sponsored activities, reading the Bible, and living God-centered lives.

I’ve read what the Bible says from the standpoint of those against homosexuality as well as from the standpoint of those in favor. I’ve learned that the arguments in favor of homosexuality are actually as strong as those against it.

I’m very grateful to be living in a place where fellow Catholics are open to accepting homosexuals as warmly as any heterosexual in our community. Mentoring young Catholics in their teen years has opened my eyes even more. Listening to what they have to say as young members of this Church (and as its future leaders) is completely eye opening, and ot a certain degree, wonderful.
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You need to add a 1 to your name - LifeAt115MPH sounds a lot better - just sayin 😉 👍😃
 
LifeAt15MPH said:
I’ve been Catholic my entire life. Attended Catholic school for 13 years, and as an adult, I’ve continued my journey and active participation inside this Church, most recently as a CORE leader for the Life Teen program. I’ve seen my wife embrace Catholicism as well because this is where she felt at home.Throughout all these years, I’ve learned many things. Agreed with some, disagreed with others.

My first “head on” crash with this topic came a few years ago when my Catholic priest cousin informed me about his decision to leave the Catholic Church. The reason? He was gay. He lived an exemplary life as a Catholic priest, giving decades of his life to tending the poor, yet he couldn’t be part of something that denied who he was.

Gays are part of the Catholic Church, whether we like it or not. Denying their existence is denying a huge part of our Church. They are here, sharing a pew with us during mass, tending to our children and teens on Church-sponsored activities, reading the Bible, and living God-centered lives.

I’ve read what the Bible says from the standpoint of those against homosexuality as well as from the standpoint of those in favor. I’ve learned that the arguments in favor of homosexuality are actually as strong as those against it.

I’m very grateful to be living in a place where fellow Catholics are open to accepting homosexuals as warmly as any heterosexual in our community. Mentoring young Catholics in their teen years has opened my eyes even more. Listening to what they have to say as young members of this Church (and as its future leaders) is completely eye opening, and ot a certain degree, wonderful.
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From the standpoint of the bible, where does it argue in favor of homosexuality. I’ve never seen that.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Your cousin’s decision to renounce Catholicism because he was gay is, ultimately, a foolish one; based on emotion and deformed desires which he allowed to overwhelm his duty to God. .
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He didn’t renounce his duty to God. He continues to be a priest and devote his entire life to God and to his community His duty to God hasn’t changed… But he’s now a priest for the Episcopal Church, where he has now married another gay Episcopal priest.

That’s the reality that he couldn’t deny any longer. He had to be true to himself but he chose to continue being a devout man of God, instead of turning his back completely on Him, like so many have done…
 
LifeAt15MPH said:
I’ve been Catholic my entire life. Attended Catholic school for 13 years, and as an adult, I’ve continued my journey and active participation inside this Church, most recently as a CORE leader for the Life Teen program. I’ve seen my wife embrace Catholicism as well because this is where she felt at home.Throughout all these years, I’ve learned many things. Agreed with some, disagreed with others.

My first “head on” crash with this topic came a few years ago when my Catholic priest cousin informed me about his decision to leave the Catholic Church. The reason? He was gay. He lived an exemplary life as a Catholic priest, giving decades of his life to tending the poor, yet he couldn’t be part of something that denied who he was.

Gays are part of the Catholic Church, whether we like it or not. Denying their existence is denying a huge part of our Church. They are here, sharing a pew with us during mass, tending to our children and teens on Church-sponsored activities, reading the Bible, and living God-centered lives.

I’ve read what the Bible says from the standpoint of those against homosexuality as well as from the standpoint of those in favor. I’ve learned that the arguments in favor of homosexuality are actually as strong as those against it.

I’m very grateful to be living in a place where fellow Catholics are open to accepting homosexuals as warmly as any heterosexual in our community. Mentoring young Catholics in their teen years has opened my eyes even more. Listening to what they have to say as young members of this Church (and as its future leaders) is completely eye opening, and ot a certain degree, wonderful.
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Thank you! I’ve often felt the Catholic Church could better outreach to LGBT persons. It’s a shame your cousin left, we need more clergy to see the light as well. Although, it doesn’t help when they have banned gay people from the Priesthood.
 
LifeAt15MPH said:
He didn’t renounce his duty to God. He continues to be a priest and devote his entire life to God and to his community His duty to God hasn’t changed… But he’s now a priest for the Episcopal Church, where he has now married another gay Episcopal priest.

That’s the reality that he couldn’t deny any longer. He had to be true to himself but he chose to continue being a devout man of God, instead of turning his back completely on Him, like so many have done…
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Like I said, renounced his duty to God. His duty as a Catholic priest was to live and preach the Catholic faith. Rather than remain true to his faith and offer his troubles to God, as all Catholics are called to do, He chose to abandon his position and his faith in favor of a “church” that allowed him to indulged in his sexual urges. What about this does not say “abandoning his faith” to you?
LifeAt15MPH said:
It’s more interpretation based than emotional based. You can tear apart a Bible verse one way or another.
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You approach the Bible like a protestant. There is no “tearing apart” because it’s not up to the individual. God entrusted the Bible to the Church, to be interpreted by the clergy through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Belief in personal interpretation is the reason we have 40k protestant denominations floating about all claiming to know better than one another, all of which are operating without (or with lesser) guiding from the Holy Spirit.
stlcatholic86 said:
Thank you! I’ve often felt the Catholic Church could better outreach to LGBT persons. It’s a shame your cousin left, we need more clergy to see the light as well. Although, it doesn’t help when they have banned gay people from the Priesthood.
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See what light? Any light not derived from God is not a light you want to be seeing, let alone following. And what do you mean banned from being priests? O don’t know where you derived this misconception, but you are definitely mistaken. ** Sexually active** homosexuals cannot become priests, just like sexually active heterosexual cannot become priests. Similarly, a gay person who desires to become a priest but refuses to teach or live the Church’s moral standards in terms of homosexuality cannot become a priest. It’s not because they’re gay, it’s because they’re a heretic…
 
stephe1987 said:
Regarding the teens, that is unfortunate. Working with them, you are supposed to be helping form their consciences properly and giving them guidance. Just because a teen believes something does not make it good or true. Teens have all sorts of crazy ideas that need to be addressed and questions that need to be answered.
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It’s not unfortunate. On the contrary, it allows these teens to embrace the Catholic Church because they want it from the deepest part of their souls. They are not doing so because mom and dad were Catholic and forced them to be Catholic, or because they made them go to Catholic school, or because they were told “this is how it is, so deal with it”.

The kids that normally come to Life Teen WANT to be there. They want to be part of the Church, and they want to be Catholic. But they have many doubts, and they want to discuss the topics. They don’t want to walk in and be told “this is how things are”. They want to discover it themselves. Ultimately, we do tell them what the Church’s view is on these controversial topics, but the teens are responsible for what they do with these guidelines.

Whether the Catholic Church is for them or not is something that is very personal and very intimate between God and them. Many of these teens choose to embrace the Catholic Church (and now that many of the teens I started mentoring are young adults, I can tell you that I have met VERY few Catholics as devout as them). They were allowed to find God and Catholic Church in their own terms, and the journey paid off.

It’s not unfortunate. On the contrary. These young Catholics have a devotion and conviction that many of us older Catholics wish we could’ve had at their age.
 
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