Death, Lies, & Videotape

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Joseph_Kaluwa said:
Has anyone seen how a lion kills its prey? is there any morality in it? It’s the food chain.
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Are we made in the image of God, or the image of the savage beast? Are we ABOVE animals??? Or are we at THEIR uncivilized level? Are we appointed to the position of steward, overseer of the animals and the planet? Or are we equal to the animals, emulating their beastly behaviors?

The lion is a carnivore. His job, as appointed by God, and the laws of nature, is to rule the wild, the wilderness–to kill and to eat prey animals–to cull the weak, sick, and injured from the flocks. He does not kill the strongest, most robust and healthiest animals–he chooses the slowest, weakest.

Are we lions, or children of God? Is the lion capable of mercy, forgiveness, charity??? Or does he run on pure animal instinct? Are we truly lions??? Would we really rather align ourselves with the lion and his place in the world???

We are ABOVE the lion. We are above the savage beasts. Their purpose, their life, is for this earth. Our time here is in preparation for the next life. We are here to cultivate, not our earthly tastes and desires, but the qualities and the condition of our souls.

The Bible tells us that one day the lion will lie down with the lamb. We, humans, made in God’s image, can understand this concept and look forward to this vision. We can control our beastly tendencies, here while on this earth, the lion can not…
 
Marfran said:
The lion is a carnivore. His job, as appointed by God, and the laws of nature, is to rule the wild, the wilderness–to kill and to eat prey animals–to cull the weak, sick, and injured from the flocks. He does not kill the strongest, most robust and healthiest animals–he chooses the slowest, weakest.
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According to Genesis that is not true. You want a strict reading of Genesis when it behooves you and a lenient one when it behooves you. Take you pick, either no animal was made as a carnivore (as Genesis says) and these are the wages of sin, or animals are carnivores by nature. You can’t have it both ways.
 
adriancombe said:
I haven’t seen the video yet, as I am on my Centro, but for a similar angle, that incorporates the animal and human suffering, google “Blood, Sweat and Fear.” Read as much of the report as your stomach will permit. Suffice it to say: the machine does not stop just because a worker lost a finger; not all the protein you are consuming is from ‘animal’ sources.
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I appreciate the link… the condition for workers is one of the reasons that connects for me too. I would suggest reading this also in light of the new ENCYCLICAL LETTER: CARITAS IN VERITATE from the Holy Father vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
 
Drawmack said:
According to Genesis that is not true. You want a strict reading of Genesis when it behooves you and a lenient one when it behooves you. Take you pick, either no animal was made as a carnivore (as Genesis says) and these are the wages of sin, or animals are carnivores by nature. You can’t have it both ways.
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Drawmack!!! You are correct!!! Neither humans nor animals were intended to eat meat in Genesis, in the Garden.
 
Marfran said:
Drawmack!!! You’re back!!! I thought you were taken to the back room for a flogging (for your acronyms). Welcome back, brother!!!
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Nah, I’ve just been keeping quite on this thread. I realized I was attempting to convince people to see things my way and that wasn’t my intent. I just don’t want people to voice their opinions in such a way as to make me seem less moral or anything like that because of mine.

Actually, I didn’t even get a stern talking to about the acronym, but I will admit I should have left the F out of it.

Thanks Marf.
 
Drawmack said:
Nah, I’ve just been keeping quite on this thread. I realized I was attempting to convince people to see things my way and that wasn’t my intent. I just don’t want people to voice their opinions in such a way as to make me seem less moral or anything like that because of mine.
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Drawmack, I just wanted to stress that I wasn’t making any moral judgments about you (or anyone else) personally, but rather I was questioning our treatment and use of animals in general. As I said before, I do eat meat, but it causes me some degree of distress whenever I think how it ended up on my plate. I suppose that’s why most people don’t think about that topic. That’s probably why this video was posted in the first place, to remind them of that which they repress from their consciousness.

Now, I may be all wrong. I may be just a soft-hearted fool. My friends and family certainly think so. Then again, these same people also think I’m **crazy **for wanting to learn more about Catholicism. 🤷

p.s. I learned an important lesson 14 years ago about netiquette. At the dawn of the Web, my silly political website I made garnered news attention that I hadn’t intended. After that incident I always considered whatever I posted via the Internet as if everyone knew my real name and where I lived. Even though the chances are slim that someone could “out” me here on this forum, this attitude helps me to keep my tone civil.

blessings
 
4elise said:
Excuse me?

I think you are making my point - did you watch the video in the original post?

People in the US would be outraged to think of their pets as dinner - but don’t have the same concern for the animals we eat.

As for calling this discussion “propaganda videos” it just doesn’t encourage a respectful discourse. The video may not move you to make any change in your life, and I respect that - but for some of us it is a visual reinforcement for the choice we’ve made to omit meat from our diets.

So if one sees this as propaganda, I guess I would just suggest avoiding it -?? 🤷
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The point is that animals are animals.I don’t think it matters which ones you eat.It’s purely cultural.
I do avoid PETA & other animal rights propaganda because of the underlying dishonesty, but I do feel the need to state that I believe it is propaganda.It’s my belief, not disrespectful discourse.Propaganda exists under many forms.As part of our right to free speech we can make that personal statement.
 
redhen said:
…but rather I was questioning our treatment and use of animals in general. As I said before, I do eat meat, but it causes me some degree of distress whenever I think how it ended up on my plate. I suppose that’s why most people don’t think about that topic. That’s probably why this video was posted in the first place, to remind them of that which they repress from their consciousness.
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Absolutely. The view of the process by which meat ends up on our plates has long been hidden, cloaked, shielded from our view, woven into a fairytale… Open the doors, let every consumer see. I would like to see glass walls, not only in the agribusiness industry, but in every industry. The more we know, the better choices we make.

This morning on the news they were talking about bottled water and what’s really in the bottled water. Bottled water is big business. The general public *thinks *it’s healthier, or has the idea that it is healthier. But is it??? We need glass walls there, too.

Support the glass industry!!! And don’t wear wool–or at least don’t let anyone pull it over your eyes!!!

BTW, redhen, I appreciate the aliens that you brought to this thread!!! Thank you!!!
 
Cracker_Mom said:
The point is that animals are animals.I don’t think it matters which ones you eat.It’s purely cultural.
I do avoid PETA & other animal rights propaganda because of the underlying dishonesty, but I do feel the need to state that I believe it is propaganda.It’s my belief, not disrespectful discourse.Propaganda exists under many forms. part of our right to free speech we can make that personal statement.
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PETA has nothing to do with this thread so it is"propaganda" to suggest there is a relationship to this thread.
You eat meat and have no problem with it - I get that - for me I don’t eat meat, dairy,eggs because what I learned about factory farming does not make sense to me because of my faith. This is why I join in these threads - why I am glad to have this discussion with other Catholics.
 
4elise said:
PETA has nothing to do with this thread so it is"propaganda" to suggest there is a relationship to this thread.
You eat meat and have no problem with it - I get that - for me I don’t eat meat, dairy,eggs because what I learned about factory farming does not make sense to me because of my faith. This is why I join in these threads - why I am glad to have this discussion with other Catholics.
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PETA is one of many animal rights groups.My comments were about all those groups, including PETA which is probably the most notorious.
I respect your right to state your opinions, too.🙂
 
Cracker_Mom said:
PETA is one of many animal rights groups.My comments were about all those groups, including PETA which is probably the most notorious.
I respect your right to state your opinions, too.🙂
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thanks for respecting my rights too… When we are in these discussions it is important I believe to avoid inflamitort “word bombs” and I think PETA is one of those because of their tactics…does that make sense?
 
4elise said:
I don’t eat meat, dairy,eggs because what I learned about factory farming does not make sense to me because of my faith.
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So you would not be opposed to eating meat were it not for factory farms?

OK, then were someone to prepare an animal for you in as humane a way as possible, you would have no objections to sitting down for the dinner…right?
 
vz71 said:
Thanks.
I too have little difficulty eating something that was considered a pet mere hours ago.
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Me, too, but again it’s our cultural upbringing & practices that determines what constitutes a pet and what’s on the table for supper.Not what’s right or wrong morally.(As long as were talking about animals.)🙂
 
vz71 said:
So you would not be opposed to eating meat were it not for factory farms?

OK, then were someone to prepare an animal for you in as humane a way as possible, you would have no objections to sitting down for the dinner…right?
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Factory farms are the biggest issue for me. The next very important one is the amount of resources it takes to raise a pound of animal protein vs an pound of veg protein - so in the US, given the choice I still prefer a vegan diet.

When I travel I accept the hospitality of people who have prepared chicken soup, grilled goat meat - their sources are not factory farms, and accepting their hospitality is more important to me than my preference.
 
4elise said:
When I travel I accept the hospitality of people who have prepared chicken soup, grilled goat meat - their sources are not factory farms, and accepting their hospitality is more important to me than my preference.
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That is good to know.
Thank you.

I see this as a victory of principles over symbolism.
 
vz71 said:
That is good to know.
Thank you.

I see this as a victory of principles over symbolism.
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What if a family shops at Piggly Wiggly & offers you grilled chicken from Claxton’s best modern chicken houses? Does hospitality stop then?😉
 
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