Death penalty for child molesters?

[blessedstar]

ReformedCatholic:

They count on society’s “softness” on them to give them other opportunities to victimize children, the whole time playing the “victim” themselves.

Exactly. No-one is more sorry for themselves than a paedophile, why that is the case I don’t know. They cannot fully perceive the damage they do and often feel sorry for themselves and the fact that after prison release their life must be restricted by license, but this restriction is for the benefit of their own freedom and for the freedom of all children within their community.

I have very little patience with such people who commit these crimes against children, very innocence and purity itself. They know it is wrong and wrong beyond all realms and still they commit and re-commit the crime. I don’t for one minute think they deserve anyone’s sympathy nor do I believe that they should be hounded. I believe that currently they are able to deceive themselves and society and Christians are easy targets for this because we are rightly taught to forgive. Such characters as paedophiles are very manipulative.

However forgiveness and charity must also be metered with prudence and it must always be remembered as St Paul wrote that ‘Love protects’.

I would suggest that sentences be increased for such crimes with a very gradual re-intergration into society with very strict monitoring of paedophiles. Currently they are assessed by a forensic psychiatrist and if ‘deemed fit’, released. There is some level of monitoring, but it is not satifactory. I would suggest that paedophiles be permenantly tagged as well as indefinitely having to report to police and psychiatric assessment with life-long therapy. Though I am suspicious of psychiatric assessment as many paedophiles have been ‘deemed fit’ only to re-offend. This would suggest that extensive reasearch must be done into the criminal mind of a paedophile in order to bring about accurate assessments of paedophiles and their behaviour.

I am appalled to read that Christians would first seek violence as a means to solution, violence always has to be a last resort and I don’t think currently all avenues of address have been employed to deal with such people.

My heart, sympathy and prayers go with anyone who has suffered at the hands of a paedophile. I can’t fully express my sorrow for you and I hope by the grace and love of Christ you may be consoled and have His Peace.

 

[estesbob]

It appears in this thread we are in race of the bottom. Each post suggesting a more barbaric punishmentthan the last. How do we send a message to society that barbarism is unacceptable when we ourselves seem to support it?

 

[blessedstar]

estesbob:

It appears in this thread we are in race of the bottom. Each post suggesting a more barbaric punishmentthan the last. How do we send a message to society that barbarism is unacceptable when we ourselves seem to support it?

Of course you are right but perhaps you did not read my post. I didn’t suggest any barbaric punishment and I am personally appalled at the posts that have suggested violence and inhumane treatment of such people.

 

[estesbob]

blessedstar:

Of course you are right but perhaps you did not read my post. I didn’t suggest any barbaric punishment and I am personally appalled at the posts that have suggested violence and inhumane treatment of such people.

I was not referring to you. And I seriously doubt many people really advocate the punishments there are suggesting. I think these people should be locked up for the rest of their lives and hopefully come to know the Lord. Now that is a win-win situation.

 

[krokal]

ReformedCatholic:

Although, I believe rehabilitation of criminals is possible, it is not generally likely. By the time they enter the system, their personalities have developed such that they are not likely to change. Child molesters are even less likely to rehabilitate.

And you know it isn’t “generally likely” how? Does anyone really know here what percentage of child molestors can be rehabilitated using proper techniques?

Everyone here seems to be so sure of their facts, but deep down they mean nothing unless they come from a reliable study/source.

ReformedCatholic:

Remember, one in ten child molesters is caught. One in ten that is caught is convicted. .

Did the other 9 just admit they were child molestors, but the FBI didn’t take them in or what? That number is purely arbitrary.

Estesbob, I count about 5-6 people who don’t favor barbaric means to an end.

 

[Digger71]

Ana:

Just so I am clear, I am not advocating the death penalty or castration out of a desire for bloodthirsty vengence. It is because the crime is so horrific. and of such dire consequences that it has to be STOPPED!!

Well it sounds reasonable…but my concern is going to be miscarriages of justice. I oppose the death penalty on principle, in all cases because if we kill the wrong person we cannot get them back.

I am also aware of many, many wrongful convictions (for many different crimes) where the police provably framed their victims.

Until the police forces are trustworthy, and all error is eliminated I could not support the death penalty.

Even then I suspect I would still consider it barbaric.

And finally, if they are dead, they never get the chance to repent and find salvation. I said ‘finally’, but I think this is possibly my largest concern.

 

[estesbob]

Digger71:

Well it sounds reasonable…but my concern is going to be miscarriages of justice. I oppose the death penalty on principle, in all cases because if we kill the wrong person we cannot get them back.

I am also aware of many, many wrongful convictions (for many different crimes) where the police provably framed their victims.

Until the police forces are trustworthy, and all error is eliminated I could not support the death penalty.

Even then I suspect I would still consider it barbaric.

And finally, if they are dead, they never get the chance to repent and find salvation. I said ‘finally’, but I think this is possibly my largest concern.

Well that is a start!

 

[wjp984]

ReformedCatholic:

This is true. Child molesters are the most despised of all the prison population and these will be at serious risk of death.

Well sadly the US tries to protect these scum as well by giving them solitary confinement. However, at least solitary confinement is normally a punishemnt and not a method of protection and these people can’t stay in solitary forever. The other prisoners will get them eventually.

 

[slyboots]

First let me say, I work in the child welfare field.
Sexual predators are made not born. Yes I know we always have the choice whether to sin or not. However, let me say this from experience. In our local system, just in my county, I am aware of a number of sexual predators…under the age of puberty. As babies they were abused. So their rage is well developed by 6 or 7 years old. These are virtually unplaceable children. No foster homes are capable of caring for them. They cannot be housed where any other children are living. Their innocence is destroyed. Statistics tell us they will never be safe in society barring a miracle.
No, I do not advocate the DP for these children. But when you meet them it is extremely difficult not to wish devoutly that the perpetrators were dead before they committed these truly heinous crimes on these precious children. Because these children barring a miracle will/ have become the offenders of the next generation.
I pray specifically for a little boy everyday. So far anytime he is allowed around another child he will attack them. He has been in therapy since he was 4 years old which is when it was first ascertained he was attacking other babies. Housing him is extraordinarily difficult. His placement is virtual incarceration. I will not go into it too deeply but the perpetrator should be dead, in my flawed opinion. Not tortured, not fed to the other prisoners, not chemically/ surgically altered. Dead. My father always said it was mercy to kill mad dogs so they would suffer no more nor cause anyone else to suffer.

 

[michaelmac]

Hi all think you should read this ,Yet even with that compromise, members of the Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee removed the 25-year provision from the bill. If it is not restored, child sex offenders will continue to serve unjustly short terms before they are freed to prey on New Hampshire’s children again.yours michaelmac

 

[ReformedCatholic]

Kaleb Kroger:

And you know it isn’t “generally likely” how? Does anyone really know here what percentage of child molestors can be rehabilitated using proper techniques?

Everyone here seems to be so sure of their facts, but deep down they mean nothing unless they come from a reliable study/source.

Did the other 9 just admit they were child molestors, but the FBI didn’t take them in or what? That number is purely arbitrary.

Estesbob, I count about 5-6 people who don’t favor barbaric means to an end.

If you were to look at recitivism rates among the criminal population you would see that rehabilitation is not “generally likely” or if you prefer “statistically probable.” Child molesters are more likely to re-offend than most of the remainder of the criminal population.

And what would you propose are the “proper techniques” to “rehabilitate” child molesters? And where would these services be located? And are you proposing to pay for the “rehabilitation” of the child rapist while the child may not get treatment at all?

9 of 10 are not prosecuted for various reasons: the family does not wish to pursue it, many just want the situation to “go away,” there is insufficient direct evidence to prosecute in a criminal court, the only witness is the victim, the molestation occurs within the family and is not treated as a “crime” but a “family matter,” and some kids just aren’t capable of testifying against the offender- to name a few. Shall I go on? You might also want to look into why so few adult rapes are prosecuted compared to how many actually occur. Now multiply that by all the compounding factors that make it more difficult because the victim is a child.

And the number comes from a forensic psychiatrist I work with who’s worked in the field for 20 years. But you can still call it arbitrary if you like. If you’re interested in the reality of how these children are victimized by predators and then re-victimized by an inadequate justice system I suggest you do your own homework. I’m not going to do it for you- I finished grad school years ago.

Good luck.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

slyboots:

First let me say, I work in the child welfare field.
Sexual predators are made not born. Yes I know we always have the choice whether to sin or not. However, let me say this from experience. In our local system, just in my county, I am aware of a number of sexual predators…under the age of puberty. As babies they were abused. So their rage is well developed by 6 or 7 years old. These are virtually unplaceable children. No foster homes are capable of caring for them. They cannot be housed where any other children are living. Their innocence is destroyed. Statistics tell us they will never be safe in society barring a miracle.
No, I do not advocate the DP for these children. But when you meet them it is extremely difficult not to wish devoutly that the perpetrators were dead before they committed these truly heinous crimes on these precious children. Because these children barring a miracle will/ have become the offenders of the next generation.
I pray specifically for a little boy everyday. So far anytime he is allowed around another child he will attack them. He has been in therapy since he was 4 years old which is when it was first ascertained he was attacking other babies. Housing him is extraordinarily difficult. His placement is virtual incarceration. I will not go into it too deeply but the perpetrator should be dead, in my flawed opinion. Not tortured, not fed to the other prisoners, not chemically/ surgically altered. Dead. My father always said it was mercy to kill mad dogs so they would suffer no more nor cause anyone else to suffer.

I also work in the field and I agree with you. If people saw first hand the damage done to these children there wouldn’t be a pro-molester/“soft” judge in any court in this country.

Just as an aside, has the boy you’re talking about been tried on various meds, and have the developmental disorders been ruled out?

 

[siamesecat]

The sad part is…rehabilitation of these people almost never works. Time and time again these kids killed by these predators are killed by REPEAT offenders who were let out with a slap on the wrist. If you’ve been following Oprahs search for sex offenders…they are ALL repeat offenders. They just seem to be unable to stop. Our legal system probably won’t allow it to be this harsh, but it seems legitimate pedophiles should be locked up for life, or at least a lot longer than they are.

 

[krokal]

siamesecat:

The sad part is…rehabilitation of these people almost never works.

Is that the child molestor’s fault or our fault? Perhaps the way we try and rehabilitate these people is wrong. I’m not saying I have a solution, but if so called “rehabilitation” isn’t working, perhaps it’s time to try a different approach.

ReformedCatholic:

And what would you propose are the “proper techniques” to “rehabilitate” child molesters? And where would these services be located?

I don’t know the “proper techniques”, I just know the ones we currently use aren’t working. If we were on the right path, we would see the number of molestations decrease.

Does it matter where these services are located? I’m not sure what that has to do with anything, but I imagine in prisons and special centers.

ReformedCatholic:

And are you proposing to pay for the “rehabilitation” of the child rapist while the child may not get treatment at all?

What would you give that impression? Why would I convey any other idea than to treat them both?

 

[ReformedCatholic]

Kaleb Kroger:

Is that the child molestor’s fault or our fault? Perhaps the way we try and rehabilitate these people is wrong. I’m not saying I have a solution, but if so called “rehabilitation” isn’t working, perhaps it’s time to try a different approach.

That would be great in an ideal world. But the reality of it is that there is no “rehabilitation” but there may be “recovery.” However, recovery can only occur when the person CHOOSES not to molest again and chooses to take steps to prevent him or herself from doing so. This is much like an addict finally wanting to engage in a recovery program, much like AA and allow themselves to be constantly monitored so they are not tempted to offend again. The problem with this is that very few actually WANT to stop. They will generally only comply with a recovery program as long as a court mandates it. This is the ultimate reason why there is no “rehabilitation.”

I don’t know the “proper techniques”, I just know the ones we currently use aren’t working. If we were on the right path, we would see the number of molestations decrease.

This is based on the assumption that pedophilia is an “illness” like depression or something. It is not. It is a behavior that is chosen. There are ways to help child molesters keep themselves from offending again, if they choose to accept the help, but there is no way to force someone into recovery. A meth or crack addict will only quit when they are ready. That’s okay because they are their own victims (and their families.) With a pedophile their victims are innocent children. We cannot afford to wait until they “get around” to stopping molesting children.

Does it matter where these services are located? I’m not sure what that has to do with anything, but I imagine in prisons and special centers.

What would you give that impression? Why would I convey any other idea than to treat them both?

I was merely making a point. The fact is that a great many of the child victims do not receive the treatment that they need, yet all we tend to hear is about the needs of the rapist/molester. The children are pushed to the side because people do not want to deal with the horror of the situation.

 

[siamesecat]

Kaleb Kroger:

Is that the child molestor’s fault or our fault? Perhaps the way we try and rehabilitate these people is wrong. I’m not saying I have a solution, but if so called “rehabilitation” isn’t working, perhaps it’s time to try a different approach.

This is my theory. Now i know some people here advocate the reform of homosexuals into straight people, but I believe that’s almost always impossible. I believe with women, it seems as though most were molested and therefore uncomfortable with male sexuality, which is why they’re lesbians. I can see why they could be changed, as female sexuality has a lot of “feelings” and “emotions” tied into it. Now with men, it seems to be a very strong biological and physical need, not about feeling “comfortable” or “loved” or “close to someone” as much as with a woman. Molestation of males by other males seems to often result in the molested child becoming gay, though obviously that’s not always the case. It’s like this somehow confuses their sexuality earlier on, and can cause them to turn their desires onto other men. But I believe most men, because sex for them is so ingrained in them, are born with whatever perversions they have, whether it’s homosexuality, pedophiliia, or some other different attraction. I doubt many men here say that they could go without sex for their whole lives, and so many men have sex with wives or girlfriends. Those who don’t might “take care of it themselves”, with some form of pornography. But with pedophiles, this pornography is illegal, somewhat harder to come by, and they don’t have any…erm…real life experience until they molest. So many men post here saying they are unable to stop either masturbating or having sex out of marriage, or they’re going insane because their wives won’t have sex with them. Well these pedophiles are no different, but they don’t have as easy a time finding an “outlet” if you will…so they just repeat and repeat. Men have a really hard time overcoming sexual desires, and even more so if they’re not devoutly religious or selfish in this way. Therefore, I find it nearly impossible to believe these men are going to stop…the desire is just too strong.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

This is the one type of convict that is “safe” to store indefinately despite a general lack of effective rehabilitation, so the DP isn’t justifiable. While incarcerated, these guys are usually model prisoners and don’t try to escape (they are usually too self-absorbed to risk their necks trying to get out). Also, its already been mentioned that the DP as a consequence might make conviction even more difficult because of the guilt the victim usually has in these situations.

However, I am in favor of life without parole for any offender covicted of sexual assult of a child abuse either over an extended timeframe or for more than one victim. Only leave an out / shorter sentence for someone convicted of abusing ony one child over a short timeframe, to cover cases where the emotion carried a false accusation to a conviction. But once abuse involves multiple victims or an extended pattern of abuse, that kind of railroading can be pretty much ruled out.

Based on my own work experience supervising several pedophiles in a skilled labor project within the prison system and later as a data analyst for a state prison education system, these are not folks that respond to typical rehablitation steps. Their recidivism rate does not respond to additional education (in fact, it looks like it gets worse the more advanced of a degree they hold, but the sample sizes are too small to say for sure). Castration doesn’t help, as noted, its not a testosterone thing, and hte number of female perps is increasing (conicidentally in parallel with an increase in porn use by females).

The most effective treatment programs are similar to substance abuse treatment and only work on “low-level” offenders. They are a waste of resources for multiple victim, long term offenders (that is, they show no benefit compared to a random sample of equivalnet untreated releasees.

 

[michaelmac]

Hi all , if the U S A wants to stop some of the abuse of children , they have to pass laws that do not help most offenders get probation, because the abuse was in the home , in England we have a program for teenages who abuse , only they dont get on to it till they have hurt more than one child , the first time they abuse they get a writen warning not to do it again,its run by the Probation service , taging is not a very good option because rapests have found out tall building block the single from the satalite thats tracking them , , and getting help for victims is very hard as you have to beg our government for funds, we had a centre that used to treat sex offenders only it was closed down because our government needed the funds from the sale of the land , the reconviction rate from this centre was 10 out of every 100, what im writing about is people who have abused lots of children ,one of the reasons children are revictimized is because they are treated in court as adults and cross questioned like an adult not a child,yours michael mac

 

[Ana]

Kaleb Kroger:

Were you a victim?

As another poster mentioned, it is not necessary to be a victim to feel passionate desire to protect children from these predators. By this logic, because of your desire to defend the perpetraters, I could ask you if you were a child molester.

That is a VERY personal question to ask someone :tsktsk: … and yes, I am a victim ( I prefer survivor). We are all victims in one way or another, because we are all impacted as a society by the choices these people make.
Kaleb Kroger:

Have you forgiven the offender?

Offender"S" … Four perpetrators before the age of eleven, first happened at four yrs. Three strangers … one was a neighbor.

Have I forgiven them? Yes. But that does not eliminate the consequences I still live with.
Kaleb Kroger:

And you know this how? I thought in the realm of Christ that no one is beyond redemption.

I wasn’t speaking of the realm of Christ. Nor was I speaking of redemption. I was speaking of the world we live in, and I said rehabilitation.
Kaleb Kroger:

Who are you to say what is an appropriate punishment and what isn’t?

The OP didn’t ask for credentials, just opinions. Why are you asking for MY qualifications?
Kaleb Kroger:

Furthermore, last time I checked, wishing death upon someone and claiming the title “Christian” don’t exactly mix.

Honestly, back off.
Kaleb Kroger:

That’s how Jesus works, right?

If an infinite number of strikes is too much for you, let’s at least try to be like baseball, mmkay?

So there should be no punishments for any crime?

 

[Ana]

estesbob:

And I seriously doubt many people really advocate the punishments there are suggesting.

When I first ran across this thread, I had just finished reading about the bust of the recent child pornography ring. After reading about how an eighteen month old was being sodomized … LIVE … over the internet by an adult male, I was so upset … I should have waited to calm down to post my thoughts.

I do not think my initial reaction of anger and rage is appalling. I think it is a natural reaction to such evil. My mistake was to post my opinion while I was in that state, because it presented my opinion wrong. I should have taken a time out, and I am sorry if my initial rage contributed to any sort of lynch mob mentality.

I did the next day, (seeing a little more clearly) say that I prefered life in prison … NO PAROLE …, but it seems people want to skip that post and keep quoting my previous, yes flopfoot …
emotion filled ones.