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leaner
Guest
Bear with me, as I’ve never created a poll before, but here in Va one of the big election issues for the gubernatorial race is the death penalty…I’m wondering how people feel
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Tristan_daCunha
Guest
I wish the second choice read: No, because Jesus specifically said that “an eye for an eye” no longer applies. Matt 5:38-42
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Rhubarb
Guest
I’d vote no, simply because I think it’s hypocritical to take someone’s life for taking a life.
But I do recall being taught that God empowers lawful government to execute prisoners. Though, this was a Lutheran church’s teachings.
But I do recall being taught that God empowers lawful government to execute prisoners. Though, this was a Lutheran church’s teachings.
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mlchance
Guest
It is also the Catholic Church’s teaching in a nutshell. Always has been. Always will be. There is nothing wrong with the death penalty per se. Individual applications of the death penalty, however, can be unjust and, therefore, wrong.
For the record, I oppose the death penalty, but not because I’m trying to occupy any higher ground. It’s simply cheaper to keep an inmate in prison for life. Capital punishment uses up too much capital.
– Mark L. Chance.
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leaner
Guest
Any references? Thank you!
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mlchance
Guest
Real quick before I go to work: Find an online Catechism of the Catholic Church via Google. Search for death penalty therein.Any references? Thank you!
– Mark L. Chance.
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jman507
Guest
In almost all cases in the US I would think we do not need the death penalty. Though I will say there are some cases with some serial killers, that I think it’d be far safer to give them the death penalty. Even with putting them in solitary confinment, they still have to get out time to time. But there are very few I’d put in that catagory.
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Eileen_T
Guest
I always think of the story of Saint Maria Goretti and Alessandro Serenelli, her murderer. Alessandro was bitter and unrepentant for 8 years before Maria Goretti appeared to him in a dream.
However long it takes, every repentant sinner is a victory for God. Death before repentance is a victory for satan. While I realise not everyone will repent, we should give them that chance.
Ooops! How many others have been forgetting to pray for those in prison to repent and be saved? That surely must be a spiritual act of mercy, to visit those in prison, even if only in prayer.
However long it takes, every repentant sinner is a victory for God. Death before repentance is a victory for satan. While I realise not everyone will repent, we should give them that chance.
Ooops! How many others have been forgetting to pray for those in prison to repent and be saved? That surely must be a spiritual act of mercy, to visit those in prison, even if only in prayer.
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Guar_Fan
Guest
Eileen T:
Eileen, this is an excellent point. I will have to include the imprisoned in my prayers. I have heard that visiting the imprisoned is a corporal act of mercy, but converting sinners is a spiritual act of mercy. But however we slice it, its an excellent idea!
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jman507
Guest
I don’t know if I’m out of bounds saying this, but I have to wonder if some are in such a mental state, where they don’t have a proper understanding of how wrong is what they did, considering the constastant abuse they took in their much yonger years, combined with what they were born with. Like I said I think this would be very few people. Plus they would have to be a danger for those around them. For them I wonder if they should be put to death for the prudence of keeping those in prison safe and hope that the Lord will have mercy on them, cause of their state. This stance I do not know if it is right, but to me it seems prudent.
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Eileen_T
Guest
They are all Children of God. Pray for them
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abcdefg
Guest
criminals who show the lack of nature of general creatures deserve death penalty. a good example is abortionists. they all should go to the gallows
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StratusRose
Guest
I’ve seen the commercials with Tim Kaine (I think that’s the one) saying that he is a practicing Catholic and that his religion is important to him, but he will in no way let his religion influence his politics, that’s why he is for the death penalty. My boyfriend lives in VA and I saw that commercial at his house. I said that anyone who denies his religion for the sake of political gain is a coward to me. (cough cough John Kerry cough) DB agreed.
Something about the death penalty doesn’t sit right with me.
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mlchance
Guest
Tristan daCunha:
– Mark L. Chance.
I didn’t notice this earlier. Jesus’ comments about “an eye for eye” were not directed against the death penalty. They were directed against people seeking revenge for wrongs done to them.
– Mark L. Chance.
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StratusRose
Guest
But isn’t that what the death penalty is all about? Have you seen people whose loved ones were killed asking for the death penalty because they took someone they loved away for them, so then they don’t deserve to live? “Getting back” at someone is revenge.
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mlchance
Guest
No, it isn’t, and the presence of certain vengeful persons doesn’t alter this fact. There are different aspects of justice: retribution, restoration (hardly relevant in this particular case), and protection are paramount. While I and you are forbidden retribution, this prohibition doesn’t necessarily extend to civil authorities.
Of more significance, however, is the issue of protection. If in any particular case it is prudent to execute a criminal in order to protect society, then capital punishment is justified if not actually morally necessary.
– Mark L. Chance.
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StratusRose
Guest
Ok, I see your point…But I believe the church has said before that advances in technology and the security of prisons has decreased the necessity for capital punishment. It was prevalent in history because societies had no way to house, feed, or protect themselves from criminals. We can do this now. Carrying out death sentences is actually more expensive than life sentences. If we as Catholics say that we do not reserve the right to say who lives or dies, then we must apply that philosophy across the board. God loves prisoners on death row just as much as he loves you and me.
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mlchance
Guest
True enough, but we must remember the key words “has decreased” (not “eliminated entirely”). Also, what constitutes advances in technology and security in the U.S. doesn’t necessarily correspond with advances in other places. What isn’t necessary to protect society in America may be necessary in another country.
Quite right, as I’ve noted hereabouts before. Of course, the monetary argument isn’t a moral argument. It is purely pragmatic.
But isn’t really what we Catholics say. We Catholics actually say that, in certain situations, we are permitted, even required, to kill. Absent those situations, we are not permitted to kill.
Yes, he does. God even loves those suffering eternally in Hell. God’s love does not make anyone exempt from just and necessary punishment.
– Mark L. Chance.
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Flopfoot
Guest
**2267 **Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
Thats from the CCC. Much as I’d like to believe that the death penalty is never ok, what am I supposed to do? Disagree with the Catechism?
If you want to look into this further, the last quote of that paragraph is from John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae. (If you can understand Encyclicals that is! Why can’t they be in simpler language?)
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Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
Thats from the CCC. Much as I’d like to believe that the death penalty is never ok, what am I supposed to do? Disagree with the Catechism?
If you want to look into this further, the last quote of that paragraph is from John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae. (If you can understand Encyclicals that is! Why can’t they be in simpler language?)
/thread.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
jman507:
You just might be talking about people who are legally insane at the time they commited their murders.
In which case, you’re talking about peple who probably aren’t morally responsible for what they did, because they probably weren’t able to discern right from wrong (The McNaughton Test). At the same time, they can be safely controlled so long as they are appropriately medicated.
Society is protected so long as those people are kept in locked mental facilities and medicated by professional personel who know what they’re doing.
The people above have to be distinguished from predatory killers who can come from any background whom the Torah says should be put to death. There are some 5 instances in the first 5 books of the Bible where God says that Murderers should be put to death.
I think we have to take that seriously.
At the same time, we need to look at the fact that our society has left the God who wrote that Bible, has slaughtered 46 million babies by Abortion since the Roe v. Wade decision, has decided that “loving sex” between a man and a man is just as sacred as the divinely instituted marriage between a man and a woman, and has decided to routinely underfund defenses in capital cases in the South, causing innocent people to be at risk of being put to death.
All of these are real problems, and some may very well take the authority of the country to take life away from the country.
I don’t know.
In the meantime, I suggest that we do write letters to, visit and pray for murderers on Death Row, urging them to repent and either be baptized (if they hadn’t) or go to the Confessional (even non-Catholics can avail themselves of that Sacrament and receive Absolution under certain limited circomstances) or become Catholics if they have time to do so.
I also support those groups which try to find those people who are actually innocent (The Innocence Project, The Centurians) and to prove that to the Courts and to the Prosecutors.
If someone is to be put to death, please let it be someone who is actually guilty of the crime of murder who is morally and legally able to be responsible for the crime. and, Please let us not celebrate their death.
In Christ, Michael
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