Death Penalty poll

[jman507]

I might have to look into a bit more, but I think its more of a matter of some of these people being sexually and physically abused to such an extent as youth, they might not be insane, but they don’t really know better. Its going to very hard for them to change. I don’t know if you’d consider Richard Rameriz or Ted Bundy as being insane, but they might not be ones you’d like to have take a chance on escaping from prison, much less for the guards and others inmates safty. I bring it up as a safty issue, I could care less about giving them revenge.

 

[kahenns]

mlchance:

For the record, I oppose the death penalty, but not because I’m trying to occupy any higher ground. It’s simply cheaper to keep an inmate in prison for life. Capital punishment uses up too much capital.

– Mark L. Chance.

so the only reason you want to keep them alive is because of your greed… wow… real christian… so your money is more important to you than something made in the Image of God, money is usless in these forums… were talking about Catholic doctrine… not condoning one of the seven deadly sins (greed)

 

[betra2000]

kahenns:

so the only reason you want to keep them alive is because of your greed… wow… real christian… so your money is more important to you than something made in the Image of God, money is usless in these forums… were talking about Catholic doctrine… not condoning one of the seven deadly sins (greed)

I agree with what you are saying. I read some of the other quotes. But might I make a suggestion? I think that in these forums we need to be tollerent on what other people say no matter if we agree or not. There are ways to dissagree with others, but not to offend. I also think that if you are going to comment on something that upsets you, you should do it in a more Christian manner as quotes like yours turn people off and then the point you were trying to make does not make a difference. Just a suggestion.

God Bless you!

 

[kahenns]

betra2000:

I dont think that was his point at all. I think that you got all offended for nothing. I do agree with your point, but don’t agree at all how you said it! I think that you need to be a little bit more Christian and make your point in a more tollerant, Christian Manner.

Ok i was a little dramatic i suppose, but why i got offended was his arguement included money, which is reasonable, but he didnt say anything about how they have dignity and worth too. I find that money controls our thought too much and i wanted to stir the pot to let that be heard. This is my first day on this forum and im reading too much opinions that are self motivated and blocking the true vision of Jesus. Maybe thats the way I should have said it in the first place… but sometimes you just have to turn over the tables in the temple

I just looked by the profile for the guy i was commenting about and he lives in Houston texas, ironic saying that they are responsible for the most execution. But I aslo live outside of houston, and go to a catholic high school in houston, but i am oppose to the death penalty obviously. I also belive that it is a more important issue than abortion in some ways. Because the government is unsure about the technicalities of when life starts and the rights of the woman so the allow it during this period of uncertainty. But capital punishment is directly done by the governent, they are killing rather than allowing killing. both are equally bad by the way

 

[Siena]

The key word in this poll is OUR. In OUR judicial system , no, the death penalty is unnessesary. In other countries without the capacity to safely house dangerous criminals… yes.

 

[betra2000]

kahenns:

Ok i was a little dramatic i suppose, but why i got offended was his arguement included money, which is reasonable, but he didnt say anything about how they have dignity and worth too. I find that money controls our thought too much and i wanted to stir the pot to let that be heard. This is my first day on this forum and im reading too much opinions that are self motivated and blocking the true vision of Jesus. Maybe thats the way I should have said it in the first place… but sometimes you just have to turn over the tables in the temple

I just looked by the profile for the guy i was commenting about and he lives in Houston texas, ironic saying that they are responsible for the most execution. But I aslo live outside of houston, and go to a catholic high school in houston, but i am oppose to the death penalty obviously. I also belive that it is a more important issue than abortion in some ways. Because the government is unsure about the technicalities of when life starts and the rights of the woman so the allow it during this period of uncertainty. But capital punishment is directly done by the governent, they are killing rather than allowing killing. both are equally bad by the way

Much better said. Good job!!!

 

[Trelow]

Your forgot sometimes. It’s not an all or nothing issue, the Church has been quite clear on that. Yes, there are cases in which it is an appropriate measure for safety. No we can’t just kill everyone who murders another.

There really isn’t much point to continually have a thread about this, it’s not something that is going to change and one’s opinions are moot. Just listen to the Church.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Tristan daCunha:

I wish the second choice read: No, because Jesus specifically said that “an eye for an eye” no longer applies. Matt 5:38-42

The bible also says that ALL of scripture is there for man’s benefit/

 

[mlchance]

kahenns:

Ok i was a little dramatic i suppose, but why i got offended was his arguement included money, which is reasonable, but he didnt say anything about how they have dignity and worth too.

The appropriate response to an inference based on an argument from silence: http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/rolleyes.gif.

kahenns:

I find that money controls our thought too much and i wanted to stir the pot to let that be heard.

What you find is probably more indicative of your own thoughts than anything else, unless, of course, you’re telepathic. I suggest you approach a priest for spiritual direction in this matter.

kahenns:

This is my first day on this forum and im reading too much opinions that are self motivated and blocking the true vision of Jesus. Maybe thats the way I should have said it in the first place… but sometimes you just have to turn over the tables in the temple

Or, more prudently, one could refrain from thinking he has the “true vision of Jesus” and is therefore qualified to cleanse Temple.

kahenns:

I just looked by the profile for the guy i was commenting about and he lives in Houston texas, ironic saying that they are responsible for the most execution.

I don’t think you know what “ironic” means, nor do you understand the legalities of the death penalty system in Texas. Let me guess: You think President Bush, when Governor of Texas, was responsible for all of those executions.

kahenns:

But I aslo live outside of houston, and go to a catholic high school in houston, but i am oppose to the death penalty obviously.

Obviously, but not in any sort of coherent manner. Perhaps you’d do well to come sit in on a few of my religion classes at the Catholic school in which I teach.

kahenns:

I also belive that it is a more important issue than abortion in some ways.

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned the lack of coherence. Let’s continue:

kahenns:

Because the government is unsure about the technicalities of when life starts and the rights of the woman so the allow it during this period of uncertainty.

The government is “unsure about the technicalities of when life starts.” Science demonstrates conclusively life is present from the moment of conception. Any high school biology textbook ought to be sufficient to confirm this fact.

Abortion isn’t allowed “during this period of uncertainty.” There is no period of uncertainty. Abortion is allowed during the entire course of pregnancy, right down to the very last day of pregnancy.

kahenns:

But capital punishment is directly done by the governent, they are killing rather than allowing killing. both are equally bad by the way

No, abortion and capital punishment aren’t equally bad. The Church says so, by the way.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[kahenns]

mlchance:

What you find is probably more indicative of your own thoughts than anything else, unless, of course, you’re telepathic. I suggest you approach a priest for spiritual direction in this matter.

Umm… no this is not based off of my own thoughts alone, ill admit that I care about money, but I DO NOT let it affect my moral judgement, such as a reason to sustain life. I’m very lucky in this, I am only seventeen and don’t have money, therefore it does not cloud my judgement. So talk to a priest about what?

mlchance:

Or, more prudently, one could refrain from thinking he has the “true vision of Jesus” and is therefore qualified to cleanse Temple…

Its not like some object, but I believe the Church doctrine, the Bible, and my faith… allowing me to see what God intends humans to do… and he does not want us to worship money or murder. Im not saying I’m like God but I believe me beliefs are relect the truth… how is that wrong? to believe that your faith is correct?

mlchance:

I don’t think you know what “ironic” means, nor do you understand the legalities of the death penalty system in Texas. Let me guess: You think President Bush, when Governor of Texas, was responsible for all of those executions.

Yes i suppose I did use the colliquial use of the word ironic, but I don’t know why that is relevant. And no I do not believe that President Bush was responsible… I never even talked about him. Everyone that condones, believes, or allows the death penalty is responsible is some way, but we as catholics need to be “universal” especially in protecting life… of EVERYONE

mlchance:

Obviously, but not in any sort of coherent manner. Perhaps you’d do well to come sit in on a few of my religion classes at the Catholic school in which I teach…

Which school is that… I hope to God that Im not talking to a St. Thomas teacher… that would be bad… no you don’t fit any of my teachers

mlchance:

The government is “unsure about the technicalities of when life starts.” Science demonstrates conclusively life is present from the moment of conception. Any high school biology textbook ought to be sufficient to confirm this fact.

Sure. I beleive that life is present at conception, but the legal system is uncertain not the church or biology.

mlchance:

Abortion isn’t allowed “during this period of uncertainty.” There is no period of uncertainty. Abortion is allowed during the entire course of pregnancy, right down to the very last day of pregnancy.

No your missing my point, not uncertainity in the period of pregancy. We are in a period of political uncertainty. It is allowed because there more sufficent evident for pro-choice… at least thats the way the government sees it. It is not set in concrete that abortion will always be allowed.

mlchance:

No, abortion and capital punishment aren’t equally bad. The Church says so, by the way…

Once again missing my point, I do not mean that the acts themselves are equal. But that capital punishment should be regarded as a bigger political issue, because they are physically killing as oppose to allowing. But Allowing and Killing are both bad, and should be stopped, but someone who watches a murder and sits back doesnt seem as bad as the murder. But they are both wrong. I know that they are not equally bad, because the Church allows it under certain and limited circumstances

 

[mlchance]

kahenns:

But [abortion and capital punishment] are both wrong.

No, they aren’t both wrong. Abortion is always wrong. Period. Capital punishment may be wrong, depending on the specific situations involved in each particular case.

kahenns:

I know that they are not equally bad, because the Church allows it under certain and limited circumstances

Make up your mind. You just said both abortion and capital punishment are wrong (which is a false statement). Earlier you said of that “both are equally bad,” but now they are not equally bad.

You repeatedly note that I’ve missed your point. That’s because your point is sometimes wrong and other times contradictory.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[betra2000]

mlchance:

No, they aren’t both wrong. Abortion is always wrong. Period. Capital punishment may be wrong, depending on the specific situations involved in each particular case.

– Mark L. Chance.

Capital punishment is still taking the life of another and IS WRONG. I don’t think that it compares to abortion, but we are not GOD, we (our world) have no right to take the life of another.

 

[Trelow]

betra2000:

Capital punishment is still taking the life of another and IS WRONG. I don’t think that it compares to abortion, but we are not GOD, we (our world) have no right to take the life of another.

nah, read your bible and catechism.

 

[spacecadet]

first off: the eye for an eye verse was a limitation not a command as you must do this. God knew that people would retaliate by killing twice as many “you killed my brother, i’ll kill 2 of yours” etc… God was limiting them to only what was done

second: the American death penalty IS NOTHING LIKE THAT OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED WITH THE BIBLE.

for more on that you should read this amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555536328/qid=1130030511/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0067268-0922349?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

 

[Flopfoot]

betra2000:

Capital punishment is still taking the life of another and IS WRONG. I don’t think that it compares to abortion, but we are not GOD, we (our world) have no right to take the life of another.

Do I have to repeat this? CCC 2267 - this is the official stance of the Catholic Church.

**2267 **Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”

 

[Trelow]

spacecadet:

first off: the eye for an eye verse was a limitation not a command as you must do this. God knew that people would retaliate by killing twice as many “you killed my brother, i’ll kill 2 of yours” etc… God was limiting them to only what was done

second: the American death penalty IS NOTHING LIKE THAT OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED WITH THE BIBLE.

for more on that you should read this amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555536328/qid=1130030511/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0067268-0922349?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

nah, I was talking about Jesus giving Peter the keys to bind and lose.
Church says it’ ok sometimes. That should be good enough for any Catholic. If it’s not, well then perhaps one should refrain form communion until they can subject their will to that of Christ’s bridegroom.

 

[AmyS]

StratusRose:

But isn’t that what the death penalty is all about? Have you seen people whose loved ones were killed asking for the death penalty because they took someone they loved away for them, so then they don’t deserve to live? “Getting back” at someone is revenge.

I have worked with those loved ones, and I don’t think it is fair of you to make such an assumption like this. I am sure you are aware that it is up to the DA’s Office to make the decision to seek the death penalty on a case. Here in California the case has to meet certain criteria in order for the death penalty to be sought. I want to say it is about 4 out of 5 of the criteria that have to be met, and it is all heinous… It is actually is sought a lot less then people realize. Anyways, it doesn’t matter one bit what the family thinks or wants.

 

[AmyS]

betra2000:

Capital punishment is still taking the life of another and IS WRONG. I don’t think that it compares to abortion, but we are not GOD, we (our world) have no right to take the life of another.

It is about absolutes.

 

[mlchance]

betra2000:

Capital punishment is still taking the life of another and IS WRONG.

According to you.

But, according to the Church, who has the authority to speak in a binding manner about issues pertaining to faith and morals, capital punishment is not necessarily wrong. It might be wrong. It might be just. It all depends on the specific circumstances surrounding each case.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[betra2000]

mlchance:

According to you.

But, according to the Church, who has the authority to speak in a binding manner about issues pertaining to faith and morals, capital punishment is not necessarily wrong. It might be wrong. It might be just. It all depends on the specific circumstances surrounding each case.

– Mark L. Chance.

It does not say that it is right! I know that it states in the Bible an eye for an eye and just because I dont like capital punishment in no way means that I dont read my Bible or dont read my Catichism. And I still have not seen or read anything otherwise including CCC 2267!!