Death Penalty = Pro choice

[pnewton]

I call death row torture but not prison. In normal prison a person can have contact visits with their family and is out of their cell most of the day working and doing things. On death row a person is in solitary confinement almost the whole day. Most death rows do not even let the inmates out of their cells together. Add to this the mental torture of knowing that at the end of this hell, you are going to be killed and you might begin to see what I mean.

I am concerned that in America, we simply can not safely incarcerate the most dangerous criminals. Your response is not atypical. The only way to keep some people from continuing a life of crime and murder even from within prison is to keep them 100% cut-off. We have watered down the definition of cruel punishment to the point that any prison that was set up to keep society safe as a priority would be deemed cruel and labeled as torture.

If I would ever agree that we can safely incarcerate the most dangerous criminals for life, if would have to be in conditions that most Americans are unwilling to accept.

 

[vera_dicere]

To me, who does consider himself both pro-life and pro death penalty, it’s a question of innocence, public safety and justice. There is a HUGE difference between taking the life of an innocent unborn child and putting to death a serial killer or something.

Except when the guy strapped down to the gurney with a luer in his vein waiting for the poision is innocent also…

I hate the DP, I find it immoral, but the Church’s teaching is the only correct and logical position. The DP in cases where it is the only way to protect society.

Say after a massive nuclear war where there are no jails or courts and murderers run free amongst the smouldering radioactive ruins. In Western countries in 2011, there’s no justification for it, we can keep society safe without killing.

 

[HelenRose]

Except when the guy strapped down to the gurney with a luer in his vein waiting for the poision is innocent also…

I hate the DP, I find it immoral, but the Church’s teaching is the only correct and logical position. The DP in cases where it is the only way to protect society.

Say after a massive nuclear war where there are no jails or courts and murderers run free amongst the smouldering radioactive ruins. In Western countries in 2011, there’s no justification for it, we can keep society safe without killing.

I agree that the death penalty should be abolished. The death penalty should be abolished whether the individual to be killed is an adult or is an innocent child in the womb.

 

[tominrichmond]

An interesting and all-too easily passed over point in this discussion is where the Catechism claims that the state has means available to “render offenders harmless” and that this, and not some moral consideration, is why recourse to the death penalty should be rare.

Neither the Catechism or any other authoritative source has enlightened us as to just what these means for rendering offenders harmless are. Surely it cannot be life imprisonment, since even in prison inmates frequently assault and kill other inmates and prison staff.

Surely it cannot mean solitary isolation for life, which would be much more dreadful and cruel than a previous poster believed death row to be.

As a law enforcement officer for nine years, and a prosecutor for 16, I have yet to encounter this strange phenomenon of an effective means for rendering offender harmless. It sounds nice, but I’m afraid only science fiction has found such a beast.

Until then, I stick with Scripture, Tradition, and even the current formal papal teachings, which is that the death penalty is perfectly fine when the public (including fellow prisoners and jail staff) cannot be adequately protected otherwise.

We’ll leave for another day the apparent shift in the current teaching away from a Scriptural/Traditional/Justice-based approval of the death penalty to a mere pragmatic, public order basis.

 

[estesbob]

Why is it that people who are in the deep south (Texas) support the death penalty and say they are pro life?

*3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. **There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

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***Pope Benedcit XVI

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[rand42]

Good one, we make wars just to show that war is wrong.

It would be more accurate to say we kill people that kill people to eliminate the threat of further killing. The safety of the general population is important and sometimes you need to thin out the gene pool.