Death Penalty

[GandalfTheWhite]

I know that the Church’s position on the issue of death penalty is rather negative. Now, from what I believe I read in the past (and it wasn’t a whole lot) it is because death penalty is no longer necessary.

Is that true? What does it mean? Should I interpret it that death penalty is OK if is somehow becomes “necessary”? When would it happen? Isn’t all killing wrong and sinful (from abortion to death penalty) at ABSOLUTELY ALL circumstances?

Thank you very much for your answers.

God bless you .

 

[estesbob]

I know that the Church’s position on the issue of death penalty is rather negative. Now, from what I believe I read in the past (and it wasn’t a whole lot) it is because death penalty is no longer necessary.

Is that true? What does it mean? Should I interpret it that death penalty is OK if is somehow becomes “necessary”? When would it happen? Isn’t all killing wrong and sinful (from abortion to death penalty) at ABSOLUTELY ALL circumstances?

Thank you very much for your answers.

God bless you .

The Church teaches that there are circumstances where the death penalty is acceptable. It leaves such determination up to the Legal authorites charged with enforcing it.

There are, OTH, no circumstances where abortion is acceptable. The Church sees no moral equivalancey between the two. In fact then Cardinal Ratzinger very specifically told us that Catholics of good will could support or not support the Death Penalty but could NEVER support abortion.

I , BTW, oppose the Death Penalty. our Church does not.

 

[psteichen]

Gandalf: The death penalty is allowed in Catholic teaching as long as it is necessary for the protection of society. Of course in the USA we now have very good jails that can contain even the most ruthless killers. Thus some see it as unnecessary for us to have the death penalty.

The problem is sometimes well meaning (but dim witted) politicians let dangerous criminals out of prison. I was just reading this week about the old Michael Dukakis scandal that lost him the election. As Democratic Governor of MA, he decided the jails were too full, so he started letting criminals out on furloughs. They could go home for the weekend and then report back. The funny thing is Dukakis strongly supported letting those serving life sentences join in on the fun. Now without a death penalty, life is the toughest sentence out there. So several murderers and rapists that were supposed to be locked up for good got out on furlough and never returned. One in particular, Willie Horton, brutally beat a man and then raped his wife in their own home.

So as you can see, some will argue that the death penalty is still necessary. No matter how good our jails are, there could be another dim witted politician out there that would let them go in the future.

 

[mommyof4]

Personally, I do not believe in the death penalty. I think that violent criminals should be locked up for life, no possibility of furloughs, either. In South Dakota, I had a friend who was kidnapped and raped by two men from the state pen who were out on a weekend furlough. No way should that happen. But neither do I agree going to the other extreme and propose that we execute all violent criminals, too. Put them away for a long time (life, if necessary), no parole, early outs, etc., treat them humanely but do not give them luxuries (cable TV, etc.) and keep them there for a very long time.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The Church sees no moral equivalancey between the two. In fact then Cardinal Ratzinger very specifically told us that Catholics of good will could support or not support the Death Penalty but could NEVER support abortion.

How come? They are both human lives and human live is secret, isn’t it? I simply don’t understand how a Christian could ever support such thing as death penalty.

God bless

 

[estesbob]

How come? They are both human lives and human live is secret, isn’t it? I simply don’t understand how a Christian could ever support such thing as death penalty.

God bless

But that wasnt the question-the question was does the church support the death penatly? The answer is, in some circumstances, yes. You and i may disagree with that BUT we err if we try and ascribe a doctrine to the Churchthey do not hold.
As much as I opposethe death penatly I agree with the Churchthat it is not intrinsicly evil in and of itself. Abortion is. There simply is no comarison between the two

 

[adrift]

Gandalf: The death penalty is allowed in Catholic teaching as long as it is necessary for the protection of society. Of course in the USA we now have very good jails that can contain even the most ruthless killers. Thus some see it as unnecessary for us to have the death penalty.

The problem is sometimes well meaning (but dim witted) politicians let dangerous criminals out of prison. I was just reading this week about the old Michael Dukakis scandal that lost him the election. As Democratic Governor of MA, he decided the jails were too full, so he started letting criminals out on furloughs. They could go home for the weekend and then report back. The funny thing is Dukakis strongly supported letting those serving life sentences join in on the fun. Now without a death penalty, life is the toughest sentence out there. So several murderers and rapists that were supposed to be locked up for good got out on furlough and never returned. One in particular, Willie Horton, brutally beat a man and then raped his wife in their own home.

So as you can see, some will argue that the death penalty is still necessary. No matter how good our jails are, there could be another dim witted politician out there that would let them go in the future.

This is not the only thing to consider. What would stop a prisoner in for life from killing in prison. Why should he not kill another prisoner or a guard? What possible punishment could he fear if he knows that there is no death penalty and he is already in for life?

 

[BryPGuy89]

I know the Church has a rather open to interpretation kind of view on the death penalty, but I support the death penalty and capital punishment to the extreme. As an over zealous follower of laws and codes I guess I have an extreme view on justice.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Gandalf,
the Death Penalty is NOT sinful.
In the Old Testament Israel, it’s use was positively commanded by God. Even in the New Testament, St. Paul tells us that certain sins make a person deserving of being put to death.
The church knows this,
and acknowledges this,
but prefers today to stress allowing the criminal to live on,
in prison of course, in hope that, like King David and the horribly wicked King Manasseh, the offender may repent before his death and save his soul.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[Victorious]

How come? They are both human lives and human live is secret, isn’t it? I simply don’t understand how a Christian could ever support such thing as death penalty.

In this country, a person is sentenced to death as the result of committing a heinous crime. Within a very short time after he is charged with a capital offense, the state has a duty to inform him in writing that it is seeking the death penalty. He has months – sometimes a year or more – to prepare for trial, and then has the opportunity to confront and cross-examine the witnesses against him, and compel witnesses to testify on his behalf at the state’s expense. He has a right to be defended by counsel, also at the state’s expense. He has been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt; then, he has had another trial to determine whether the state can prove the aggravating factors necessary to impose the death penalty. Once sentence is imposed, he has had a full and fair opportunity to appeal his conviction and sentence – in fact, in at least some jurisdictions, appeal from a death sentence is automatic. Then he sits on death row, filing habeas petition after habeas petition, in the hopes of convincing some judge that his trial lawyer was incompetent, or the trial court made some mistake that violated his constitutional rights. Occasionally, he prevails, and then the state is left with a choice of re-trying him 25 years later, when evidence has deteriorated and witnesses have died, or working out some plea agreement for time served.

An unborn baby, on the other hand, is put to death without due process, without the right to confront the witnesses against him, without the right to an advocate at the taxpayers’ expense, without the right to put on a defense, and without appeals. He hasn’t even had the chance to avoid being condemned to death by refraining from committing an offense.

Nope, no comparison there.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

Sooner or later, Jesus will come again, and when the new earth comes, there will be no death. That mean the DP, which is the devil’s work.

 

[Leeta]

Neo Cannon. The death penalty is not intrinsically evil. It is a matter of justice. The Church says the state has the right to protect society by executing criminals. This belongs to the ordinary magisterium. It cannot change. No Pope can change it.

Lethal means are sometimes necessary to protect the innocent.
Our prisons are not totally secure. Nor can the inmates be protected from being murdered by other prisoners. The priest who abused so many in Boston was murdered by another inmate shortly after his incarceration. Many times child abusers are released under the mistaken notion that their perversion has been cured. Is that justice? How is society protected by doing that?

 

[Neo_Canaan]

Neo Cannon. The death penalty is not intrinsically evil. It is a matter of justice. The Church says the state has the right to protect society by executing criminals. This belongs to the ordinary magisterium. It cannot change. No Pope can change it.

Lethal means are sometimes necessary to protect the innocent.
Our prisons are not totally secure. Nor can the inmates be protected from being murdered by other prisoners. The priest who abused so many in Boston was murdered by another inmate shortly after his incarceration. Many times child abusers are released under the mistaken notion that their perversion has been cured. Is that justice? How is society protected by doing that?

You mean the world. There’s other ways to protect the passing world. What you said sounds like something the devil would say. The DP is a modern day form of the Romans’ “bread and circuses” way of sastifying the masses’ thrst for slaughter and revenge–which is just what the devil wants. And like it or not, it must be changed when the new earth is created; after all, St John the devine said that god would take away all tears, even death. The church only gave in to the fat cat secular state, so that there wouldn’t be an uproar in the crowd, other wise, the State’s minions would kick the church out of all nations, so the church had to adhere to the old give and take thing to please the fat cats. If we wanna protect the world, why not exile those killers to some place desolate like the South pole? It sickens me that the church would under pressure from thease erathly goverments. So in protecting people by murdering those killers, sending them to hell, we not only increase hell’s population, ang give Satan a huge army to take over the world, we defile our souls with revenge, thuse these state killers will NEVER enter the kingdom, unless they repent. Even Hugo Stapp, the one that murdered Timmy McVeigh, repented and quit his job.

 

[adrift]

You mean the world. There’s other ways to protect the passing world. What you said sounds like something the devil would say. The DP is a modern day form of the Romans’ “bread and circuses” way of sastifying the masses’ thrst for slaughter and revenge–which is just what the devil wants. And like it or not, it must be changed when the new earth is created; after all, St John the devine said that god would take away all tears, even death. The church only gave in to the fat cat secular state, so that there wouldn’t be an uproar in the crowd, other wise, the State’s minions would kick the church out of all nations, so the church had to adhere to the old give and take thing to please the fat cats. If we wanna protect the world, why not exile those killers to some place desolate like the South pole? It sickens me that the church would under pressure from thease erathly goverments. So in protecting people by murdering those killers, sending them to hell, we not only increase hell’s population, ang give Satan a huge army to take over the world, we defile our souls with revenge, thuse these state killers will NEVER enter the kingdom, unless they repent. Even Hugo Stapp, the one that murdered Timmy McVeigh, repented and quit his job.

Who are you to judge who will or will not enter the kingdom? What you have written is from the devil because the devil says don’t trust Christ Church for it has been corrupted. What you have written is a lie from the father of lies.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

You just don’t get it? There’s bound to be one of them in a crowd. But I still oppose the DP, and haven since joined several anti DP groups to prove it. Besides, my mom told me the church is scared of getting kicked out of America and other nations if they refuse to give concessions to the fat cat state.

 

[estesbob]

You just don’t get it? There’s bound to be one of them in a crowd. But I still oppose the DP, and haven since joined several anti DP groups to prove it. Besides, my mom told me the church is scared of getting kicked out of America and other nations if they refuse to give concessions to the fat cat state.

The Church has supported the death penalty for 2,000 years. When you or your Mother make ill informed comments like that it hurts the cause. It makes those of us who are committed Catholics and are opposed to the Death Penalty look like fools. .

 

[Victorious]

…So in protecting people by murdering those killers, sending them to hell, we not only increase hell’s population, ang give Satan a huge army to take over the world…

I was going to make a wise-acre comment about how we don’t believe in Ragnarok anymore, but on second thoughts, I don’t think I will. I’ll just let the foreoing stand.

Although I support the death penalty, I think a principled opposition to it is reasonable. But in this mushy, squishy age, I would ask opponents of the death penalty – and especially those who spew venom at death penalty supporters – if they are sure they aren’t confusing squeamishness with morality.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

The Church has supported the death penalty for 2,000 years. When you or your Mother make ill informed comments like that it hurts the cause. It makes those of us who are committed Catholics and are opposed to the Death Penalty look like fools. .

We’l take that chance, for when the new heaven and the new earth come, death will cease, putting a lot of those fat cat state killers out of work.

 

[Victorious]

We’l take that chance, for when the new heaven and the new earth come, death will cease, putting a lot of those fat cat state killers out of work.

This misplaced compassion is another thing that brings opposition to the death penalty into disrepute.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

This misplaced compassion is another thing that brings opposition to the death penalty into disrepute.

If I had to save the world by destroying any of God and Jesus’ creations, denying that person a chance to repent, I want no part of it @ all.