Death Penalty

[HailMary]

I know that the Church’s position on the issue of death penalty is** rather negative**. Now, from what I believe I read in the past (and it wasn’t a whole lot) it is because death penalty is no longer necessary.

Is that true? What does it mean? Should I interpret it that death penalty is OK if is somehow becomes “necessary”? When would it happen? Isn’t all killing wrong and sinful (from abortion to death penalty) at ABSOLUTELY ALL circumstances?

Thank you very much for your answers.

God bless you .

The Church does not have a negative view of the death penalty.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

The Church does not have a negative view of the death penalty.

They will, sooner or later when they hear how tough it is on the taxpayers. It will NEVER bring the victims back, and all state killers must repent and quit their jobs or burn in hell.

equal crime
equal consequences

Given that we have the death penalty, what is your point?

Hang equal consequences, it’s the devil’s work. The only real consequences is life in solitary with no parole or exile in the south pole. Two wrongs never make a right. If I was a priest (which I ain’t, more’s the pity), I’d never attend any death session, boycott every death session, and never allow any state killers to come in my church or home rectory. NEVER. Not until they repent and quit their devil jobs. I’d never run any marriage ceremonies twixt stae killers and their would be spouses, just shut them out. When the new heaven and earth comes, all death machine factories will cease to exist.

 

[thistle]

The Church does not have a negative view of the death penalty.

The Church DOES have a negative view of the death penalty. Haven’t you read the official teaching in CCC 2267. Read post #31 above.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

Hurrah for our side. After all, would Jesus pull the switch on a death machine? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!! He came to preach forgiving. ‘Sides, DPs cost much mo than life in jail. America must want drain a lot of taxpayers’ money dry in favor of quenching their thrist for dead pepole as part of their American bread and circuses. Sooner or later, even americans will be fed up with losing their money to the fat cat goverment and the DP itself, and resent that all, to the point of starting riots.

 

[bankerdavid]

‘Sides, DPs cost much mo than life in jail. America must want drain a lot of taxpayers’ money dry in favor of quenching their thrist for dead pepole as part of their American bread and circuses. Sooner or later, even americans will be fed up with losing their money to the fat cat goverment and the DP itself, and resent that all, to the point of starting riots.

The way to lessen the cost of killing a murderer (or other heinous criminal) is to shorten and lessen the amount of time they have to appeal. In many cases it takes 25 years, with the state paying the criminal’s legal fees, court costs, research, etc.

Also, you stated, a while back, that we don’t give the criminal a chance to repent. I’d say that 10, 15, 20, 25 years of trying to get out of paying for the crime is plenty of time to consider your sin, give it up to God, and repent. I’d also be willing to forego the assigned death penalty (keeping the criminal in prison) if the criminal really shows that he has repented. I.E. becoming a deacon in prison, doing good works for fellow prisoners, etc. Continually. Going to Mass, studying the Bible. If a prisoner did this for at least 5 or 10 years, I’d lift the death penalty for him. Wasting taxpayers money on appeals, etc. after all the rigamarole with a jury trial can only spare his life, but life ends too. Spending your time proving your sorry would possibly save your soul.

 

[Al_Masetti]

On his Sunday Night Live television program, Father Benedict Groeschel suggested / recommended soliary confinement for life in place of the death penalty for prisoners who continue to attack prison guards, kill fellow prisoners, engineer the deaths of witnesses, etc. during their one-hour per day of supervised “recreation”.

However, the courts have consistently stated that permanent solitary confinement may not be imposed.

So, then where are we in terms of dealing with prisoners who consistently commit murders even while in modern so-called “Super-Max” prisons serving life with no parole?

How do we protect the innocent?

 

[fix]

and all state killers must repent and quit their jobs or burn in hell.

There is nothing for them to repent from as they commit no sin. The state has the authority to take life in these cases. They act as agents of the state.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

There is nothing for them to repent from as they commit no sin. The state has the authority to take life in these cases. They act as agents of the state.

You mean agents of the earthly devil fat cat state. They WILL burn in hell unless they repent for playing God and Jesus. Even if we got to track them down and drag them to the priests and make them repent and quit their devil jobs. At least Hugo Stapp did just that, so much, the better.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

The way to lessen the cost of killing a murderer (or other heinous criminal) is to shorten and lessen the amount of time they have to appeal. In many cases it takes 25 years, with the state paying the criminal’s legal fees, court costs, research, etc.

Also, you stated, a while back, that we don’t give the criminal a chance to repent. I’d say that 10, 15, 20, 25 years of trying to get out of paying for the crime is plenty of time to consider your sin, give it up to God, and repent. I’d also be willing to forego the assigned death penalty (keeping the criminal in prison) if the criminal really shows that he has repented. I.E. becoming a deacon in prison, doing good works for fellow prisoners, etc. Continually. Going to Mass, studying the Bible. If a prisoner did this for at least 5 or 10 years, I’d lift the death penalty for him. Wasting taxpayers money on appeals, etc. after all the rigamarole with a jury trial can only spare his life, but life ends too. Spending your time proving your sorry would possibly save your soul.

Sure–with old age that CAN claim the life of any killer, male or female.

 

[detrockcity3]

It will NEVER bring the victims back.

Life in prison, however, will bring the victims back.

 

[Victorious]

If there’s one thing we need in the Catholic debate on the death penalty, it’s clarity of thought. Allow me to recommend this article by Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia that appeared in First Things in May 2002.

 

[didymus]

The only reason for the death penalty is revenge, or retribution if you prefer. This is not a valid justification, no matter how much our souls cry out for it in some cases.
DP advocates often sneer at the alternative of life w/o parole, asking, “What if they kill somebody in prison?”
Permit me to doubt that pro-DPs came to their position out of a sincere concern for the lives of prison inmates or even correction officers.

I’m on the fence about the death penalty. I don’t like it, but I don’t deny it’s constitutional and I wouldn’t claim it’s automatically immoral or un-Christian.
What bothers me is the enthusiasm of many (not all) on the pro-DP side. They seem to view every execution as a victory and every failure ofa jury to impose it as a cop-out. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of mercy.

 

[Ender]

Allow me to recommend this article by Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia that appeared in First Things in May 2002.

There are two points in Scalia’s article that need to be recognized: the Church’s new position on the death penalty is not binding on Catholics and it does not adequately address the issue of punishment.

“Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense.(2266)” The Catechism says the death penalty is unnecessary for protecting society but it completely ignores the more fundamental point of whether it is necessary as the only punishment proportionate to the crime - which the government has not only the right to inflict but has the positive duty to do so.

We fail to understand the nature of justice when we talk only of protecting ourselves from actions that criminals may commit in the future and ignore the debt that must be paid for crimes committed in the past.

Ender

 

[fix]

You mean agents of the earthly devil fat cat state. They WILL burn in hell unless they repent for playing God and Jesus.

That seems to be an erroneous opinion. The state has the authority. To claim such folks are destined for hell is outrageous and contradicts Church teaching.

 

[Al_Masetti]

The only reason for the death penalty is revenge, or retribution if you prefer. This is not a valid justification, no matter how much our souls cry out for it in some cases.
DP advocates often sneer at the alternative of life w/o parole, asking, “What if they kill somebody in prison?”
Permit me to doubt that pro-DPs came to their position out of a sincere concern for the lives of prison inmates or even correction officers.

I’m on the fence about the death penalty. I don’t like it, but I don’t deny it’s constitutional and I wouldn’t claim it’s automatically immoral or un-Christian.
What bothers me is the enthusiasm of many (not all) on the pro-DP side. They seem to view every execution as a victory and every failure ofa jury to impose it as a cop-out. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of mercy.

Would you agree with an alternative type of incarceration for the really hard cases? For example, solitary confinement 24/7 … no communication and no outside exercise periods… no removal from their cell for any reason … the cell would be generously sized … maybe even large … 10 ft x 30 ft, for example. Well lighted. But they would never leave. Not for any reason. Meals would be slid through a pass-through designed so they could not attack the guards.

Would something like that be acceptable to you?

 

[wcknight]

I think the biggest argument against the DP is the possibility, however remote, of taking an innocent life. Once you kill someone by mistake, you can never ever bring them back.

You may kill 10,000 convicted killers but if even one is innocent, that is one too many.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I think the biggest argument against the DP is the possibility, however remote, of taking an innocent life. Once you kill someone by mistake, you can never ever bring them back.

You may kill 10,000 convicted killers but if even one is innocent, that is one too many.

Would you agree with an alternative type of incarceration for the really hard cases? For example, solitary confinement 24/7 … no communication and no outside exercise periods… no removal from their cell for any reason … the cell would be generously sized … maybe even large … 10 ft x 30 ft, for example. Well lighted. But they would never leave. Not for any reason. Meals would be slid through a pass-through designed so they could not attack the guards.

Would something like that be acceptable to you … as an alternative to execution?

 

[Victorious]

You mean agents of the earthly devil fat cat state. They WILL burn in hell unless they repent for playing God and Jesus. Even if we got to track them down and drag them to the priests and make them repent and quit their devil jobs. At least Hugo Stapp did just that, so much, the better.

I hope you don’t mean that you hope they go to hell. Because it seems to me orders of magnitude worse to hope somebody goes to hell than to hope that a murderer gets executed for his crimes.

 

[wcknight]

Would you agree with an alternative type of incarceration for the really hard cases? For example, solitary confinement 24/7 … no communication and no outside exercise periods… no removal from their cell for any reason … the cell would be generously sized … maybe even large … 10 ft x 30 ft, for example. Well lighted. But they would never leave. Not for any reason. Meals would be slid through a pass-through designed so they could not attack the guards.

Would something like that be acceptable to you … as an alternative to execution?

Life is always a better alternative to the DP.

 

[Jay2]

I’ll put my .02 in here… and from reading all of the other posts, feel that I am more qualified than anyone so far to reply.

In the early/mid 1980’s (during High School) I lived about 8 blocks from a guy. His address was 8213 W. Summerdale Ave., I lived just across the Expressway, near O’Hare airport. He had two occupations, a “clown” for kiddie parties, and a small “odd-job” contractor business. He was always looking for good/strong young guys for hire to do laboring work, or help with his patio & sidewalk jobs…

His name was John Wayne Gacy.

Over 30 of my peers wound up buried in his crawlspace, or stuffed between the studs of his house’s walls.

He sat on death row for 20 years after conviction for his crimes. This man was a menace to society. Illinois taxpayers forked over 1 million+ to give him “3 hots & a cot”, and complete medical & dental care for 2 decades. The also payed to “protect” him from harm (??) in the “correctional” system during his stay, until the day finally came for sentence to be carried out and he was to die.

I would have gladly dug into my sofa cushions and found the 50 cents to pay for the 9mm hollowpoint slug… that I would have gladly fired into this sicko’s skull… the instant the smack of the gavel announced “guilty as charged and sentenced to death”

So, I guess I’m for the death penalty… maybe not so much on 1:1, or 1:2, there are circumstances… but 1 to 30+… off 'em NOW.