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Joe_Kelley
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Toni
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Well said and my sentiments exactly. Whats up with these prolife people saying they are prolife and say oh there is nothing wrong with the death penalty.
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Contarini
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Well, the traditional view is that executing murderers is prolife because the state has received from God the power to execute justice on those who take life. I don’t think there is anything inconsistent about prolife people supporting the death penalty. But I do believe that the death penalty should only be used when absolutely necessary, and even more importantly, there must be no possibility whatever that a mistake has been made. If there is even the slightest chance that an innocent person is being condemned, then the death penalty is cruel and unjust.
I wasn’t able to answer the poll because I don’t believe the death penalty is wrong in all times and places, but I do believe it is wrong in the U.S.; this, however, is not because we are “civilized” but because we are not. We are not a sufficiently just society to practice the death penalty (among other reasons). If by “civilized” you mean that we have the facilities to prevent murderers from further harm without killing them, then I agree, but I really don’t think that’s a very meaningful use of “civilized.” It just means that we have better organization, bureaucracy, and technology than other cultures.
In Christ,
Edwin
I wasn’t able to answer the poll because I don’t believe the death penalty is wrong in all times and places, but I do believe it is wrong in the U.S.; this, however, is not because we are “civilized” but because we are not. We are not a sufficiently just society to practice the death penalty (among other reasons). If by “civilized” you mean that we have the facilities to prevent murderers from further harm without killing them, then I agree, but I really don’t think that’s a very meaningful use of “civilized.” It just means that we have better organization, bureaucracy, and technology than other cultures.
In Christ,
Edwin
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Toni
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I find this interesting because where is the hope of conversion? Would God forgive them? Since he is the just judge.
The Pope in one of his books said “I have not found one case that could justify capital punishment” So if the Pope can not even justify killing Ted Bundy how can we. I have argued this point with many catholics. I will stand my ground if you are prolife you are prolife all the way. You can always pray for those in prison to convert. Also it costs the taxpayers so much more money to put a prisoner on death row. (not that this is the issue here) life is life. Put them in prison made for them!
Christ himself turned that old an eye for an eye around in the new testament!
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pnewton
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Toni and DJJG,
There is an important word that must not be left out. “In the USA, we can (name removed by moderator)rison them.” is not the same as “In the USA, we can **safely **imprison them.”
This is why I lean toward a continual need for the death panalty. Hopefully, one day we will no longer need it. This idea particualar issue was debated at length at:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=7255
There is an important word that must not be left out. “In the USA, we can (name removed by moderator)rison them.” is not the same as “In the USA, we can **safely **imprison them.”
This is why I lean toward a continual need for the death panalty. Hopefully, one day we will no longer need it. This idea particualar issue was debated at length at:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=7255
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seeker63
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“The Pope in one of his books said “I have not found one case that could justify capital punishment” So if the Pope can not even justify killing Ted Bundy how can we.”
As far as I can tell this is just the Pope expressing his opinion.
As far as I can tell this is just the Pope expressing his opinion.
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Chris_Jacobsen
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In Wisconsin, where I’m from, the death penalty has been illegal for the past 150 years.
It seems like those of you who are still debating capital punishment are a century and a half behind the times.
It seems like those of you who are still debating capital punishment are a century and a half behind the times.
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Teresa9
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We have in the UK safely imprisoned notorious criminals such as Jack the Ripper, Myra Hindley/Brodie, now if we can do this on this very small island, you can with all your resources in your country. There is no death penalty here and I’d agree that there never should be a death penalty and the reason for this is we should not kill by value on a persons life for any reason, a crime or sin does not decide the right for a person to live or die, what it does give is a right to impose a debt to society and that humane debt is imprisonment. We must look for the face of Christ in all people…remember ‘i was in prison and you did not visit me’, we ARE all God’s children despite our sins.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you xx
God Bless you and much love and peace to you xx
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JMJ_Pinoy
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I saw a bumper sticker on a car once that sums it all up for me: EXECUTION IS NOT THE SOLUTION!
-JMJ
-JMJ
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Joe_Kelley
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I am curious. When did you imprison Jack the Ripper. It was my understanding that he was never identified or caught; let alone imprisoned.
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pnewton
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Yes we could, if we devoted all our resources to this one issue and suspended the current constitutional definition of cruel and unusual punishment as well as limit access to the courts for convicted criminals. I am convinced it could be done.
I am of the opinion that with our current constitutional requirements for prisoner treatment there are some criminals that have murdered and will predictably murder again, behind the walls of a penitentary or through outside contacts.
I am curious if anyone else here has erver been responsible for securing these more extreme criminals and yet disagrees. I have been dealing with criminals for eighteen years, including some death row inmates. Ninety-nine percent may be manageable, but there are a handful that put the other 99%, and us, in jeapordy.
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DadAdam
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If a convicted murderer is unrepentant and goes to prison and kills another person then it is demonstrated that he continues to be a threat to the prison society where he resides. I would suggest that the current legal system is adequate to meet the requirements of Church teaching. When you consider the number of murders every year versus the number of executions you can easily assert that the use of capital punishment is rare and virtually non existant. The Holy Father was very wise in his encyclical but you must recall that he is Pope of the whole world where some societies use capital punishment in an unjust manner. For all its flaws, our legal system really tries to be fair and punishments are commensurate with the crime. It is unreasonable to put people to death political dissent but it does happen in other parts of the world. To my mind these are the issues our beloved Holy Father was trying to address.
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BLB_Oregon
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Joe Kelley:
If it is not reasonably possible to protect others from a murderer without the death penalty, then it is permissible. Your case is the first one I have heard of that might reasonably apply in a civilized country, if there are no humane conditions under which he can be imprisoned safely. That is, if someone is truly a monstrous and psychopathic version of Houdini, you can’t keep him tied up for the rest of his life. In our country, drugs might be an option, but should you get to a point where the choice is between death and a lifetime of torture, then the death penalty would be okay… you’re only talking about a slow death vs. a fast one.
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Joe_Kelley
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re the defendent would still pose a threat to society. It is important to rememberthat the other prisoners and the guards are a part of that society. We are responsible for protecting them also.
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Stylteralmaldo
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Joe Kelley:
Interesting twist to this discussion. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut…something certainly to ponder regarding the merits (or lack there of) on execution in this country.
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BryanW
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Joe Kelley:
As a State Correctional Officer I can tell you that we do have the ability to incarcerate violent criminals and insure that they don’t hurt anyone again. It costs a great deal of money though. Some States build custom cells for such people.
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BryanW
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Life time incarceration can be a form of mercy also. As a Correctional Officer I see more Bibles, Rosaries, holy pictures etc… in jail than any where else.
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BLB_Oregon
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If you are saying we do have the ability to keep a Hannibal Houdini incarcerated in a humane manner, then I cannot think of a reason that the US ought to have the death penalty, particularly since we have a long history of applying the death penalty inconsistently.
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pnewton
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This is an opinion that I do not share, sort of. I know of no prison that has eliminated assaults, escape and other in-house crime completely. I started posting on this topic when someone (jim orr) posted a thread on problems at Pelican Island. This is the latest state-of-the-art supermax prison having problems.
I said “sort of” because you are right that in theory it is possible. But what do you propose when you are ordered by a judge to let this dangerous man out of his super-secure cell an hour a day for sunlight and exercise? It hasn’t been that long since we had seven hardcore prisoners escape from one of the most secure prisons in Huntsville. We lost one police officer in the DFW area. The re-arrest could have easily ended in a blood bath if not for inside help.
There are other issues; access to courts, for one. We are always having to bring in rather dangerous inmates for court appearance. It is a constitutional right, according to current case law.
I hope you are right some day soon. I would love to see that for the next ten years that no dangerous inmate escaped, no one was killed behind bars and all prisons safely maintain order. Nothing would please me more than being proved wrong.
Keep safe, Bryan.
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